181 replies to this topic

[Pixelboy]

opcode, on Fri Jan 8, 2010 9:59 AM, said:

Or I could try to contact Mark from RWB and ask... The worst that can happens is he saying "no way", and then we can use something else or simply ignore him. We market the console as the CV2 but ship it as the ColecoVision2.
I have his email here somewhere... Should I give it a try?

Sure, we have nothing to lose in the process. We may even have something to gain, as RWB may be interested in this proposed product, on some level.

[opcode]

Pixelboy, on Fri Jan 8, 2010 10:02 AM, said:

opcode, on Fri Jan 8, 2010 9:59 AM, said:

Or I could try to contact Mark from RWB and ask... The worst that can happens is he saying "no way", and then we can use something else or simply ignore him. We market the console as the CV2 but ship it as the ColecoVision2.
I have his email here somewhere... Should I give it a try?

Sure, we have nothing to lose in the process. We may even have something to gain, as RWB may be interested in this proposed product, on some level.

Ok, email sent. Lets see what they have to say about the idea...

[opcode]

Ok, so now this come as a complete surprise. Check what I just got from Mark (River West Brands):
[EDIT:] Mark is RWB's chief executive officer. River West Brands is the current owner of the Coleco brand, including the ColecoVision name

Quote

I am inclined to approve your request pursuant to an agreement that would allow me to approve the console and content.

My request being to be allowed to officially use the ColecoVision name on our new proposed console...
I am not quoting the whole email here because I am now sure if I am allowed to do so, but it seems like a good start.
Can you guys believe that? I feel a lot more responsability now...

Edited by opcode, Fri Jan 8, 2010 9:43 PM.

[ten-four]

Hi Eduardo

Congratulations...

If the agreement comes into existence, would you let RWB distribute and promote the new Colecovision 2 for you.?

[opcode]

ten-four, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 5:54 AM, said:

Hi Eduardo

Congratulations...

If the agreement comes into existence, would you let RWB distribute and promote the new Colecovision 2 for you.?

Even if we were planning to make dozens of thousands of CV2s, RWB doesn't do any distribution. They just buy brands and license them.
Coleco and ColecoVision are their brands andf the only way to use them legaly is to get a license. Andre' will help me with that, he has a lot experience with legal stuff, just to make sure we get the proper license. That would be a dream come true...

[Pixelboy]

opcode, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 7:47 AM, said:

Even if we were planning to make dozens of thousands of CV2s, RWB doesn't do any distribution. They just buy brands and license them.
Coleco and ColecoVision are their brands andf the only way to use them legaly is to get a license. Andre' will help me with that, he has a lot experience with legal stuff, just to make sure we get the proper license. That would be a dream come true...

That's wonderful news! I wonder how much the license will cost. If the price is right, it will be an added incentive to make the CV2 a reality.

[purenergy]

Pixelboy, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 12:19 PM, said:

opcode, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 7:47 AM, said:

Even if we were planning to make dozens of thousands of CV2s, RWB doesn't do any distribution. They just buy brands and license them.
Coleco and ColecoVision are their brands and the only way to use them legally is to get a license. Andre' will help me with that, he has a lot experience with legal stuff, just to make sure we get the proper license. That would be a dream come true...

That's wonderful news! I wonder how much the license will cost. If the price is right, it will be an added incentive to make the CV2 a reality.

Great news on being able to use the brand name. Hopefully, this will not add to much to the final price.
Either way, the CV2 sounds better every day, and will put a smile on plenty of fans ready to enjoy it.


(Can't wait to see the final product! )

[opcode]

purenergy, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 5:38 PM, said:

Pixelboy, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 12:19 PM, said:

opcode, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 7:47 AM, said:

Even if we were planning to make dozens of thousands of CV2s, RWB doesn't do any distribution. They just buy brands and license them.
Coleco and ColecoVision are their brands and the only way to use them legally is to get a license. Andre' will help me with that, he has a lot experience with legal stuff, just to make sure we get the proper license. That would be a dream come true...

That's wonderful news! I wonder how much the license will cost. If the price is right, it will be an added incentive to make the CV2 a reality.

Great news on being able to use the brand name. Hopefully, this will not add to much to the final price.
Either way, the CV2 sounds better every day, and will put a smile on plenty of fans ready to enjoy it.


(Can't wait to see the final product! )

We will know for sure next week.

Edited by opcode, Sat Jan 9, 2010 5:47 PM.

[SRGilbert]

Ok, I read this whole thread and I am intrigued, but I get the impression that it must be picking up where another thread left off.

From what I gather, this will be a newly designed system that will play Colecovision cartridges, but I am still left with a few questions:

I saw something about SD cards or CF cards, will this have a memory card slot and what will it be used for? Please tell me it will play roms right from the card!

About controllers, included or not included? Have you considered making the keypad part of the console? That would simplify controller options at least.

Another thread discussed controllers, and the feeling was that it should include them to broaden the appeal, but how many people who don't have controllers already would have a source for carts?

Why not go all the way and build the Atari expansion port right in, and have TWO cartridge slots? Who wouldn't love that?

[opcode]

SRGilbert, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 6:18 PM, said:

Ok, I read this whole thread and I am intrigued, but I get the impression that it must be picking up where another thread left off.

From what I gather, this will be a newly designed system that will play Colecovision cartridges, but I am still left with a few questions:

I saw something about SD cards or CF cards, will this have a memory card slot and what will it be used for? Please tell me it will play roms right from the card!

It will play ROMs right from the card.

Quote

About controllers, included or not included? Have you considered making the keypad part of the console? That would simplify controller options at least.

We don't know yet. But you know what, from the core CV user point-of-view, I don't think that would be a big problem. New controllers would be nice, but we can always use the old ones.

Quote

Another thread discussed controllers, and the feeling was that it should include them to broaden the appeal, but how many people who don't have controllers already would have a source for carts?

That is one of the reasons for the SD card slot. But again, I cannot see am 100% perfect solution for the new controllers. We could create arcade like controllers, using MDF, but that would be expensive. The other option would be to include new NES compatible controllers with the system and have the CPLD deal with that. I don't know, that is something we still need to think about.

Quote

Why not go all the way and build the Atari expansion port right in, and have TWO cartridge slots? Who wouldn't love that?

That would require Atari chips, would rise costs, etc.

Ok, I just had a conference call with Andre, he checked my schematics, suggested a couple of things to improve the design. We also discussed the strategy to deal with RWB. Perhaps the biggest news is that he suggested me to include VGA compatibility to the design.

[Ransom]

opcode, on Sat Jan 9, 2010 8:46 PM, said:

Ok, I just had a conference call with Andre, he checked my schematics, suggested a couple of things to improve the design. We also discussed the strategy to deal with RWB. Perhaps the biggest news is that he suggested me to include VGA compatibility to the design.

Why VGA compatibility? Isn't everything modern using DVI and so on? Why put in a computer output format that's on life support?

[opcode]

Something I was wondering: with the new CV2, considering its proposed capabilities, which kind of games you would like to see released?

[Ransom]

I'd like an action/adventure game along the lines of what Tunnels and Trolls looked like it was going to be. That is, something like the third in the line of progression that started with 2600 Adventure and then Intellivison AD&D. Randomized areas to explore, randomized item and monster placement (the T&T paper and pencils game would have been great to adapt for this). Ideally, the game would make you use your head as well as your thumbs, to figure things out. And it should have a cooperative multiplayer mode, like Swords and Serpents on Intv, but with a stronger and more equal partnership between the characters.

[youki]

New original games , RPG, Driving game using the steering well etc... I don't really like direct portage.

[Cebus Capucinis]

an RPG-type game would be really cool to have! I would like to see more space-shooty stuff like Juno First and the like.

More platformers too! MAZE GAMES! Etc.

I would also like Pac-Man Collection on it, perhaps a re-issue.....hint hint hint

[ten-four]

Hi

I love games from the past, and especially games from the 80's arcades.

Games i would like to see converted to the new Coleco CV2 without limitations, is for example.:

Wizard of Wor, New Rally X, Qix, Crush Roller, Moon Patrol, Galaga, Arkanoid a pin-ball game and so on.

As closely as possible with synthetic speech for those games it has, ability to save high scores, and with the original colors, brown, orange, pink and so on.

Something not possible in our current Colecovision.

[Pixelboy]

opcode, on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:32 AM, said:

Something I was wondering: with the new CV2, considering its proposed capabilities, which kind of games you would like to see released?

I have to join in with the previous posters in voting for an RPG, which is a genre that's greatly under-represented on the ColecoVision. A pitty, especially considering how the controller's keypad can add so much depth to an RPG. Just look at Gateway to Apshai...

But beyond that, given the hobbyist pitch that the CV2 will go with, I tend to believe that the amount of people who will eventually program games for the CV2 is far more important than the games themselves, regardless of genre. It's not just a question of documenting the new hardware features properly, it's about making game development fun.

The CV (and the CV2 by extension) is a fun machine to program games for, and seing the fruits of one's labors encased in a little plastic cartridge is a reward in itself, but if the development tools available are only marginally accessible to what I would call "casual programmers", then the pool of people developing CV/CV2 games will not increase beyond the homebrewers already involved in the community, and I have to assume that most of those would prefer to program games for the "vanilla" ColecoVision, technical limitations nonwithstanding.

Asking people to learn Z80 assembly language is a no-go proposition in this age of Game Maker applications. C language is viable, but it has its drawbacks, such as bloating at compile/link-time, and it's also not a language recommended for beginners. What we need is something else, something that offers enough of a low-level access to the machine to make optimized code possible, while still being fun to learn and use. Batari has the right idea with his Batari Basic, in my opinion, and the CV2 needs something like that to get more people interested in programming games for it.

With such development tools, we're more likely to see more games developed in the long-term, and under-represented genres (such as RPGs) will emerge as a result.

Edited by Pixelboy, Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:25 PM.

[Ransom]

I'd program for the CV2 if I could run the tools under a familiar development environment, such as any Unix-y system or preferably the fantastic Mac OS X XCode. I'm comfortable with the vi editor, and very comfortable with C, but yeah, it'd be nice to have something even higher level. As a Pythonista, I vote for a Python extension rather than a BASIC extension.

[purenergy]

opcode, on Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:32 AM, said:

Something I was wondering: with the new CV2, considering its proposed capabilities, which kind of games you would like to see released?

Platform games (that play like Jumpman Junior or Montezuma's Revenge, as I never get tired of these two games.)
RPG's, possibly like Gateway to Apshai. An adventure game that you could explore for hours and enjoy "getting lost in the dungeon."
Arcade titles: 1942, Arkanoid, Bubble Bobble, Crush Roller, Dig Dug II, Donkey Kong 3, Qix.
Video Pinball(possibly like Alien Crush.)

[opcode]

So here is my take:
I like the idea of a RPG, however I would be careful to not go with a JRPG style. I would try to stay true to the spirit of the American RPGs from the time, and expand the experience from there. I believe that would make a lot of sense. In fact a lot of interesting original games would be done that way, trying to ignore the crash and the Japanese influence after that, extrapolating for what would have come next based on what we have got before the crash. But yeah, RPGs like T&T or AD&D and adventure games would be nice.
Arcade ports would be interesting too, we got a lot of Z80 based arcade games after the crash that would be ported almost flawless: Kung-Fu Master, Commando, Bubble Bobble, Arkanoid, 1942, Tiger Heli, Tokyo/Scramble Formation, Rygar and so many others. Lots of interesting stuff.
Another thing I would like to do is to explore some of the CV2 planned unique features. The V9990 has many interesting modes outside the obvious pattern modes (the ones with planes and sprites). Like, the V9990 is really fast rendering lines (about 20klines/s for lines 45 pixels long), so a vector game would be very interesting. The V9990 also has a very fast blitter and it can display 32k colors in bitmap mode, so I would like to try something to use that, though 256 would be ok already. In fact it can do 256 colors in 512x212 (or 424 interlaced) too. The tradeoff is that it cannot do sprites in bitmapped modes, but the blitter is so fast (we are talking about a 3MB/s fillrate with logical operation like masking turned on) that many interesting games would be possible, like 3D RPGs or isometric adventure games in full bitmap 256 colors mode.

[purenergy]

opcode, on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:20 PM, said:

So here is my take:
I like the idea of a RPG, however I would be careful to not go with a JRPG style. I would try to stay true to the spirit of the American RPGs from the time, and expand the experience from there. I believe that would make a lot of sense. In fact a lot of interesting original games would be done that way, trying to ignore the crash and the Japanese influence after that, extrapolating for what would have come next based on what we have got before the crash. But yeah, RPGs like T&T or AD&D and adventure games would be nice.
Arcade ports would be interesting too, we got a lot of Z80 based arcade games after the crash that would be ported almost flawless: Kung-Fu Master, Commando, Bubble Bobble, Arkanoid, 1942, Tiger Heli, Tokyo/Scramble Formation, Rygar and so many others. Lots of interesting stuff.
Another thing I would like to do is to explore some of the CV2 planned unique features. The V9990 has many interesting modes outside the obvious pattern modes (the ones with planes and sprites). Like, the V9990 is really fast rendering lines (about 20klines/s for lines 45 pixels long), so a vector game would be very interesting. The V9990 also has a very fast blitter and it can display 32k colors in bitmap mode, so I would like to try something to use that, though 256 would be ok already. In fact it can do 256 colors in 512x212 (or 424 interlaced) too. The tradeoff is that it cannot do sprites in bitmapped modes, but the blitter is so fast (we are talking about a 3MB/s fillrate with logical operation like masking turned on) that many interesting games would be possible, like 3D RPGs or isometric adventure games in full bitmap 256 colors mode.

Vector games?
Possibly Asteroids, Battlezone, Major Havoc, Space Fury, Star Trek, Star Wars or even Tempest on a CV2?
Wow!

[youki]

If the V9990 is enough powerfull we could envisage to give a try to FPS in the Wolf3d or Doom style. Using raycasting technics.

Talking about RPG, i'd prefer JRPG , at least concerning graphical style.

Quote

Asking people to learn Z80 assembly language is a no-go proposition in this age of Game Maker applications. C language is viable, but it has its drawbacks, such as bloating at compile/link-time, and it's also not a language recommended for beginners. What we need is something else, something that offers enough of a low-level access to the machine to make optimized code possible, while still being fun to learn and use. Batari has the right idea with his Batari Basic, in my opinion, and the CV2 needs something like that to get more people interested in programming games for it.

I agree with that. On my side i started to develop a kind of gamemaker for the CV . For now nothing that someone else than me can use , but i built a set of tool i use for my games that i enhance on need. The goal being at the end to propose a integrated visual development studio at the end. (run on windows)

But i think if the CV2 comes to reality , you should do like nintendo did (or does) to allow a cartridge to be produced you should impose a kind of "quality label" .

[Murph74]

I'd be happy with an Expansion Module #2 compatible version of Exidy's Demolition Derby.

The RPG doesn't do much for me, as that type of gaming really didn't hit til well after the Colecovision's prime. That said, I've always been more of a short-span game player and never cared much for the RPG types that you had to keep coming back to.

I'm all for replay value of a game where you can 'get better' at it, rather than finish it.

[joeypsp]

wow, this is probably a stupid question, but is this supposed to be like a mini colecovision ala Flashback 1&2? if so put me down for one of those dammit, id love to play some coleco on my tv either roms or cartridges (as i have a few) would be amazing, but to my understanding it loads roms off sd?

i got like 5 coleco games but no vision to play them on

Edited by joeypsp, Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:26 PM.

[rmaerz]

Murph74, on Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:55 PM, said:

I'd be happy with an Expansion Module #2 compatible version of Exidy's Demolition Derby.

Damn Skippy and put Death Race on it as well...someone's gotta show the love and port these two gems!