Is SpartaDOS 3.3 pro ShareWare?

[flashjazzcat]

Putting DOS on a cartridge was the most revolutionary and ingenious thing about SpartaDOS X. I still remember the paralising excitement when I got mine through the post in 1989.

 

If we were to have an open-source DOS (not to "compete" with SDX, but just for the sake of tinkering with something useful), it should certainly steer clear of the RAM under the OS. As has already been said, we can quite happily pack a couple of extended banks full of code for instant access. The trouble is, the more you think about it, the more you realize you'd be aping SDX: for example, having the extended memory mapped out as a disk drive with all the overlays and external commands on it would probably be the best approach.

 

However, there was some talk a while ago about developing a standard for running code out of extended RAM. I'm not sure how much work was done on that. Ideally you want use the extended RAM for both code and data. That can get pretty complicated, although SpartaDOS X does a good job of it.

[drac030]

Having a fast storage (like a PBI hard drive) would allow to give up ROM-disks or RAM-disks stuffed with utilities[1]. But it is really hard to replace the functionality of SDX cart, where it serves as a shared library. So this is the problem I was actually referring to: just see how many DOSes have been written, and how many of them are in use. I don't doubt - moreover, I am sure - that writing a DOS is a lot of fun, but here comes the question of doing something useful: a DOS which would like to be as good as SDX, would probably be worse anyways, because of the way the SDX uses its cartridge (in this sense, SDX is a hardware extension, not just software on a ROM module). At the other hand, such a DOS would be much bigger than MyDOS etc. So I suggest nothing, but I personally wouldn't do that

 

[1] That's something I don't quite understand in Atarians, first they buy a slow, serial drive, saying probably something like "it is compatible, good and fast enough for my purposes", and then they often try to work around SIO's slowness with e.g. ramdisks, even battery backed. A fast hard drive, being faster than a ramdisk, more capacitous and non-volatile, is the correct solution here IMHO. And it could make new programs better too.

[cyco130]

@Urchlay:

Thor OS is under MPL, so it's incompatible with GPL. But I would guess that the author would grant permission to use it under GPL (just speculating here, don't take it seriously). Besides, the included FMS is rather limited as you pointed out. Other than that I love the OS and atari++ (the deblocking filter feature is very cool). My favourite license for such a project would be a permissive one like zlib.

 

@drac030:

Although MyDos is said to be in public domain, the last time I've checked the license text had some restrictions that definitely contadicts with the definition of public domain.

 

Everyone has his own idea about a good DOS. I would like to see a DOS that is configurable in compile time. In its minimal setting it would function somewhat like Dos 2.0s, i.e. limited but small, and in its maximal setting would function like SpartaDos X, i.e. feature packed and runs from a cartridge. Eh, I know it's not a trivial project but I like to dream

[flashjazzcat]

That's something I don't quite understand in Atarians, first they buy a slow, serial drive, saying probably something like "it is compatible, good and fast enough for my purposes", and then they often try to work around SIO's slowness with e.g. ramdisks, even battery backed. A fast hard drive, being faster than a ramdisk, more capacitous and non-volatile, is the correct solution here IMHO. And it could make new programs better too.

Yep - that's why I've been looking around for an IDEa interface, but I can't find one.

[Fox-1 / mnx]

Yep - that's why I've been looking around for an IDEa interface, but I can't find one.

 

When using a Black-Box you can use ATA<>SCSI converters to run IDE (ATA) drives on the SCSI bus. SATA converters probably also exists.

 

That is, if you have a Black-Box. If you have the know-how (and also very important, the time) you can build your own. Re-design it to use programmable logic, include the hardware updates also (flashable-OS, etc.) and add an RT-8 to it too.

 

Oh, and while you're at it, try to make it "PBI-friendly" without breaking compatibility with existing software.

 

That's all for now but I'm sure I'll come up with more things in some time :-)

[MEtalGuy66]

Yep - that's why I've been looking around for an IDEa interface, but I can't find one.

 

When using a Black-Box you can use ATA<>SCSI converters to run IDE (ATA) drives on the SCSI bus. SATA converters probably also exists.

 

That is, if you have a Black-Box. If you have the know-how (and also very important, the time) you can build your own. Re-design it to use programmable logic, include the hardware updates also (flashable-OS, etc.) and add an RT-8 to it too.

 

Oh, and while you're at it, try to make it "PBI-friendly" without breaking compatibility with existing software.

 

That's all for now but I'm sure I'll come up with more things in some time :-)

Candle's new PBI device promises all that & more..

Well, all of that that's worth having in the modern day computing environment.. Stuff like the serial port and dot-matrix graphics screen dumper are not really worth much more than nostalgia..

 

That said, I have a fully upgraded/enhanced BlackBox/Floppyboard combo.. and its a bad mofo.. and It would take alot of money to get me to part with it..

Edited February 2, 2010 by MEtalGuy66

[MEtalGuy66]

Hi there,

 

is there any official statement if SpartaDOS 3.3b pro can be used and distributed for own projects? It displays "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", but I'm not sure about the terms of use. Would be nice to know because SD 3.3 is really improved vs. SD3.2. Maybe some of the developers of SD 3.3b or involved person could answer my question.

 

Gtx,

 

walktari

 

Ok. I have an official update from Steve Carden on this matter.. He said he would post this himself, except for the fact that he despises web forums.. But anyone interested is free to email him at sjcarden@bellsouth.net.

 

a)Bob Klass never owned the rights to any incarnation of SpartaDOS.. When Mike Holman bought ICD's 8-bit product line, he released SpartaDos 3.2 as shareware.. This opened the door legally for the decompilation/reverse engineering of any of the 3.2 versions of Spartados.. At that time, Steve Carden had a copy fo the source code for Spartados 3.32c, a never released version of spartados, that Mike Gustavson had given him years previous to FTe's aquisition of ICD's stuff.. It was from this source code that SpartaDOS 3.3a,b,and c were built and advanced. Lance may have paid Bob for the "rights" to these compiled versions of the DOS, but the plain fact of the matter is that Bob never owned the rights to begin with..

 

b)Ken Ames was not the "main programmer" of Spartados 3.3a,b, or c.. He certainly contributed, but he never asked for any sort of compensation, and was well aware of the nature/reason/intended purpose of the three enhanced versions. Steve Carden only claims the rights to his own original source code, and never attempted to sell the rights to the actual DOS to Bob Klass or anyone else.. How could he? It wasnt his to sell..

 

c)The reference "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", was put in by Steve Carden to show his distate for what Mike Holman and Bob Klass were doing to their customers... (ripping them off)... It stands for "International Fuck Your Buddy, Inc." heheh.. Essentially, Bob was using his credit card machine at the time to take orders for FtE merchandise, which Holman was not delivering...

 

d)Steve does somewhat sympathise with Lance Rinquist, because Lance got taken by Bob Klass just like many others did.. But, if someone sells you a deed to the Golden Gate Bridge, and you are dumb enough to buy it, that does not in fact mean that you own the bridge...

 

 

Walktari, if there is any question of the rights to Sparta 3.3a/b/c pro, Steve said he will be more than happy to compile you a copy of Sparta 3.3d pro, which was never released and noone owns the rights to FOR SURE... Just shoot him an email...

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

[video61atarisales]

Hi there,

 

is there any official statement if SpartaDOS 3.3b pro can be used and distributed for own projects? It displays "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", but I'm not sure about the terms of use. Would be nice to know because SD 3.3 is really improved vs. SD3.2. Maybe some of the developers of SD 3.3b or involved person could answer my question.

 

Gtx,

 

walktari

 

Ok. I have an official update from Steve Carden on this matter.. He said he would post this himself, except for the fact that he despises web forums.. But anyone interested is free to email him at sjcarden@bellsouth.net.

 

 

 

he is not posting this himself, because that would violate the settlement agreement. so instead of being a played puppet. have him come forward and announce it in public himself so that you are not sucked into this also. there was another guy as i said, that was sucked into the last settlement. it turned out he was unemployed, and when his wife found out about the cease and desist letter, and that i was looking to settle this on his dime, she exploded. you do not want to be played.

 

 

a)Bob Klass never owned the rights to any incarnation of SpartaDOS.. When Mike Holman bought ICD's 8-bit product line, he released SpartaDos 3.2 as shareware.. This opened the door legally for the decompilation/reverse engineering of any of the 3.2 versions of Spartados.. At that time, Steve Carden had a copy fo the source code for Spartados 3.32c, a never released version of spartados, that Mike Gustavson had given him years previous to FTe's aquisition of ICD's stuff.. It was from this source code that SpartaDOS 3.3a,b,and c were built and advanced. Lance may have paid Bob for the "rights" to these compiled versions of the DOS, but the plain fact of the matter is that Bob never owned the rights to begin with..

 

 

 

bob contracted to have the dos built for bbs express professional. if this was not the case. mr. cardin had his chance to dispute this with my lawyers, never provided a thing, and agreed to a settlement.

 

 

b)Ken Ames was not the "main programmer" of Spartados 3.3a,b, or c.. He certainly contributed, but he never asked for any sort of compensation, and was well aware of the nature/reason/intended purpose of the three enhanced versions. Steve Carden only claims the rights to his own original source code, and never attempted to sell the rights to the actual DOS to Bob Klass or anyone else.. How could he? It wasnt his to sell..

 

 

 

according to ken ames, he never received a dime for being a contract programmer, and i believe him. mr. cardin was a contract programmer.

 

 

 

c)The reference "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", was put in by Steve Carden to show his distate for what Mike Holman and Bob Klass were doing to their customers... (ripping them off)... It stands for "International Fuck Your Buddy, Inc." heheh.. Essentially, Bob was using his credit card machine at the time to take orders for FtE merchandise, which Holman was not delivering...

 

 

what really happened was that fte went under, and mr. cardin never got paid the rest of the agreed upon amount from fte, and later we found out there was another programmer who received nothing also, even though bob made sure mr. cardin was paid, bob ended up paying for the dos twice. once bob stepped in to pay the rest. bob was screwed by fte also.

 

 

 

d)Steve does somewhat sympathise with Lance Rinquist, because Lance got taken by Bob Klass just like many others did.. But, if someone sells you a deed to the Golden Gate Bridge, and you are dumb enough to buy it, that does not in fact mean that you own the bridge...

 

 

mr. cardin supplied my lawyers with nothing. mr. cardin agreed to a settlement. mr. cardin is playing you, because he cannot post this stuff himself. you really do not want to get sucked into this.

 

 

 

Walktari, if there is any question of the rights to Sparta 3.3a/b/c pro, Steve said he will be more than happy to compile you a copy of Sparta 3.3d pro, which was never released and noone owns the rights to FOR SURE... Just shoot him an email...

 

 

you are advocating pirating my proprietary property, you are being played. if you do not renounce this immediately, i will complain to atariage, if there is no action then, i will be forced to go after you legally personally.

 

 

 

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

[+CharlieChaplin]

(deleted)

 

-Andreas Koch.

Edited February 3, 2010 by CharlieChaplin

[drac030]

The reference "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", was put in by Steve Carden to show his distate for what Mike Holman and Bob Klass were doing to their customers... (ripping them off)... It stands for "International Fuck Your Buddy, Inc." heheh.. Essentially, Bob was using his credit card machine at the time to take orders for FtE merchandise, which Holman was not delivering...

 

Okay, it may be that I am not perfect at all the legal stuff, and no offence to anyone, but my understanding is that if Mike Hohman has bought the 8-bit ICD inventory, then he is owning it no matter what source code Mike Gustaffson gave privately to anyone else before.

 

SpartaDOS is not copyright © Mike Gustaffson, but copyright © ICD (to whom Gustaffson has supposedly sold his rights). So if ICD has later transferred the rights to Hohman of FTe, then SpartaDOS is copyright © FTe. Conclusively, noone except Mike Hohman (or a person he has transferred his rights to) may now release any SpartaDOS version.

Edited February 3, 2010 by drac030

[MEtalGuy66]

 

 

you are advocating pirating my proprietary property, you are being played. if you do not renounce this immediately, i will complain to atariage, if there is no action then, i will be forced to go after you legally personally.

 

 

 

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

 

Hahah. Dont make me laugh.... Take your best shot... This is freedom of speech, for one thing... For another thing, if you do get some kind of rediculous judgement against me, I would find that hilarious.. According to texas state law, you cant touch anything of mine.. And my credit is already blown.. So "get in line" ... hahahah..

 

 

Also, if Spartados 3.3d pro is "your proprietary property" then produce the source... You can't.. because you never had it and certainly do not own it.. If Mr. Carden does in fact have it, unl;ess you can prove he sold it to Bob, you are full of crap...

[ivop]

The last couple of hours I read up on this, with the help of google, and although I'm not interested in joining a flamefest, it is still an interesting subject. After what I read, it seems there are a LOT of things unclear. Here's how I see it

 

SD 1-3.2d were written by Mike Gustafson.

 

The first question is whether he was an employee of ICD and the copyright was automatically transfered to his employer or did ICD just got a license to sell it? In the latter case, Gustafson still owns the copyright to all the code that was in 3.2d and all the parts that migrated over to subsequent versions.

 

But let's assume ICD owned the copyright. They sold everything to FTe. Did this include a transferal of the copyright? If not, ICD still owns the copyright of all parts that were originally in 3.2d.

 

Let's assume FTe acquired the copyright from ICD. FTe released 3.2f as shareware. Shareware does not mean they gave up their rights, it just means you can freely share the binary. Copyright stayed with FTe.

 

FTe hires Stephen Carden and Ken Ames to disassemble 3.2c and extend the code for an exclusive deal with K-Products. The question here is, did Stephen and Ken keep the copyright to the code they wrote or did it go over to FTe? And furthermore, did FTe only sell K-Products the exclusive right to bundle 3.3 with their BBS software or did they sell the copyright? If they didn't, the copyright stayed with FTe (and the newly written 3.3 parts were either copyrighted by FTe or Stephen and Ken).

 

Let's assume they sold the copyright to K-Products, too. This could only have been done if FTe owned the full copyright to 3.3, i.e. Stephen and Ken signed over the copyright of their parts to FTe. After that, Video 61 (i.e. Lance) bought all of K-Products.

 

To sum it all up, the code that was originally written by Gustafson, including all those parts that ended up in 3.3 (because 3.3 was not written from scratch), could be copyrighted by:

- Mike Gustafson

- ICD

- FTe (Mike Hohman)

- K-Products (Bob Klaas)

- Video 61 (Lance Rinquist)

 

The newly written code for 3.3 could be copyrighted by:

- Stephen Carden and Ken Ames

- FTe

- K-Products

- Video 61

 

So, everything could have ended up at Lance's, or the 3.2 code could still be Gustafson's and the extra 3.3 code Stephen and Ken's, and a lot of combinations in between.

 

This is all IMHO of course and IANAL, et cetera ...

 

Oh, after the preview I see there are a lot of new reactions. Mmmm, going to post this anyway

 

[edit: spelling]

Edited February 3, 2010 by ivop

[Stephen J. Carden]

Bob klass approached ICD to have them design Sparta Dos 3.3 to be a bug free edition to use with his BBS Express Professional. Bob Klass Contracted and Paid a Down Payment (So to speak) for Sparta Dos 3.3 A,B, and C.

 

In the meantime Finetooned Engineering Purchased ICD. But the contract with bob klass was still legally Valid. after Finetooned Engineering went out of business sparta dos 3.3 was completed and Bob klass Paid the Contract Programmer the remaining owed on the contract for the completed work/Program.

 

In 1998 Bob klass Sold his Company Lock, Stock and Barrel to Lance Ringquist Of Video61. Lance Currently holds the copyright to Sparta Dos 3.3 a,b, and c and all other K Products Properties, including BSparta DOS 3.3 a,b,and c and BBS Express Professional, Etc. Lance Has All Proper Legal Paperwork, Including Bill of Sale and Canceled Checks to prove ownership Of K Products and all Properties including Sparta DOS 3.3 a,b,and c and BBS Express Professional, Etc.

 

Lance had Said you should Approach him and let him know what you want to do. he is open to working with people for things like this.

 

His Website is www.atarisales.com

 

The real short story of SpartaDos x33a,b,c,d <yes there is a d version> is long and tangled. When I stoped codding for BBS Express Professional and had really burned out on the Atari K-Products to this as they now owned everything I have ever written. So Bob found a way to make some cash quick <he was using his credit card machine to process FTe orders> and get out of it all. So he sold source that he did not own that he had access to as an off site backup. Now I do not know what all he sold lance but here is what I do know. Bob Sold BBS Express Professional which I did sell my part of the name. However He SOLD source code which to this day has my copyright to the source. This way a company could sell copies of pro in compiled form to a user; however I still have the Copyright to the source code. The reason for this is, programmer build large librarys on how to do thing like print to the screen and do disk io. Now FTe released Shareware x32d and x32g making all SpartaDos Shareware but with no company with programmer it is kinda up in the air with no clear path forward. Ken Ames and my self dissassembled x32c.dos and made the corrections into it to function with the multiplexer and then added some other stuff. So all the storys that lance makes up on the fly is just what it is Bull SH**. Lance seems to think he has some kind of judgement that keeps me from posting or speaking on this matter. This is bull shit as well if you choose to I have attached the letter from my attourney this is also BULL SH**. I will give a copy of my version of SpartaDos to anyone I see fit if you don't like it Suck a big one. Beside's a screwed up version of SpartaDos that no one will ever recover a dime for Real.Dos is near compleation and smokes the shit out of a dos that worked more 13 years ago. I have a question for you lance Did you ever get a real computer or are still using that tv web box. So to be fair I have also included the letter I received.

 

All my source starts this way;

;------------------------------------------------------------------------

;(Change the date in vtoc General DOS uttility for real.dos v1.0)

;

; Copyright 2005 Intergraded Logic Systems

; Source Code is Copyright Stephen J. Carden

;

;

; Please do not share this source!

;------------------------------------------------------------------------

;(Change the Volume NAME General DOS uttility for real.dos v1.0)

;

;------------------------------------------------------------------------

; Real.dos chvol.COM

; This program is to replace

; chtd.com

;

; Code History. Init design, October 17, 2005

; last updated 9/11/2005 sjc

;

;

;

;

;

; ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

;------------------------------------------------------------------------

; Notes: o This source code MAY NOT be placed for download on any BBS's!

; o "mea" is a macro that loads the address of the first field

; into the pointer specified by the second field.

;------------------------------------------------------------------------

; Assembler: MADMAC ST Cross Assembler (Atari Corp)

; XASM st and IBM VERSIONS

;------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Lance

I am going to give you a tip. You are digging a hole your company will not recover from.

 

 

Hope this Helps. =)

aturny.pdf

[Stephen J. Carden]

Please E-mail me and I will Make sure you get a copy of Real.Dos that you can distribute with your Program it is fully compatable with SpartaDos.

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

 

 

 

Hi there,

 

is there any official statement if SpartaDOS 3.3b pro can be used and distributed for own projects? It displays "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", but I'm not sure about the terms of use. Would be nice to know because SD 3.3 is really improved vs. SD3.2. Maybe some of the developers of SD 3.3b or involved person could answer my question.

 

Gtx,

 

walktari

[Shawn Jefferson]

SDX is so advanced and complex now that there's little need to make it an open source project: however, just because it's the best DOS by a big margin (and that's what I think)

 

I agree, SpartaDOS X 4.4x is the best DOS on the 8-bit. I'm using it with an internal MyIDE hard drive.

 

Interesting how convoluted the history of SpartaDOS has become (although I guess not so interesting, but rather frustrating for the people directly involved!) I don't see how Bob Klass could own the copyright to any version of SpartaDOS, unless those original copyrights were transferred or sold to him from FTe/ICD (and if the legal documents existed showing this to be the case, then I'm assuming it wouldn't be such an issue.) Having a modified version created is worlds away from actually owning the copyrights that the modified version was based on (it seems to me anyway, IANAL). Also, having the rights to distribute the DOS with a product is also not ownership of the copyright, nor the rights to create and sell derivative works based on that product (again, IANAL).

 

Anyway, good luck to all involved!

[Stephen J. Carden]

Putting DOS on a cartridge was the most revolutionary and ingenious thing about SpartaDOS X. I still remember the paralising excitement when I got mine through the post in 1989.

 

If we were to have an open-source DOS (not to "compete" with SDX, but just for the sake of tinkering with something useful), it should certainly steer clear of the RAM under the OS. As has already been said, we can quite happily pack a couple of extended banks full of code for instant access. The trouble is, the more you think about it, the more you realize you'd be aping SDX: for example, having the extended memory mapped out as a disk drive with all the overlays and external commands on it would probably be the best approach.

 

However, there was some talk a while ago about developing a standard for running code out of extended RAM. I'm not sure how much work was done on that. Ideally you want use the extended RAM for both code and data. That can get pretty complicated, although SpartaDOS X does a good job of it.

There is nothing that will ever replace the usefullness of a cart based DOS. I have been considering making Real.dos open source maybe not the boot kernal but the support files. But if you look at the aggravation that SpartaDos x33a,b,c have been it makes it hard to commmit. SpartaDos x33a,b,c were made from dissassembled x32c.dos.

 

SpartaDos X33a.dos has multiplexer support and drive 9 as well as msdos command set.

 

SpartaDos X33b.dos Has the regular SpartaDos high speed sio, drive 9 and msdos command set

 

SpartaDos X33c.dos Has both Mux support and SpartaDos high speed sio, Drive 9 and msdos commands set

 

 

The Mod's were made by Ken Ames and myself because we both had Multiplexer and wanted to use them with SpartaDos and our BBS systems. They we not contracted by anyone. As a matter of fact the dos was modifyed before K-Productes purchased BBS Express Professional. I contacted Mike Gustafson

if ICD was going to support the New Multiplexer by Bob Puff. Mike told me that ICD would not official support it. I then asked him would he mind if I modifyed SpartaDos to support it. He told me he didn't care as long as it was not sold and was used for personal use. Ken did the first pass disassembly and got the project in a form that I could make the mods. The first mod made was adding the mux siov. The next mod made was adding drive 9 after that I added the msdos command set just because I spent more time on the PC than the 8-bit. Keith and I started using a cross-assembler on theAtari ST then when we got PC he recompiled the Atari Cross-assembler for the IBM pc. At this time Keith and I started the Express Cart the source is all on the PC cross-assembled and ported to the 8-bit. Then Keith and I started converting all of our mac/65 code to xasm format (our Private Cross-assembler). Then Ken and I relized we needed a Sparta High Speed SIOV for our mux master so x33a became x33b we kepted our drive 9 and msdos command set just repaced the mux siov with sparta siov. Then I though I can put both the siov in the same dos and just look for the mux slaves and load the siov that was needed for the hardware; SpartaDos x33c.dos was born. I added some hardware polling code into SpartaDos x33d that will tell you what kind of hardware you have.

 

Now Lance has desided that SpartaDos x33?.dos belongs to him which it does not. Lance has purchased stolen property.

 

Ken and I made these mods for us, and how we wanted to run our machines. We would give a copy to anyone who wanted to run it at no cost. Don't get me wrong Ken and I put a lot of effort into SpartaDos x33?.dos. If someone had told me back when we made these mods that a person would try to grab it up and try to take ownership this little program I would have told you that you are out of your mine. But now I have to take much greater care of what I turn lose as open source. SO YOU HAVE ONE BAD APPLE in my opinion (Lance) that may make it impossible to ever make something open source. I can see him some how claiming that this project is his too. But maybe the good Atari user can change my mind.

 

I have modifyed the Bockman wedge to function with any version of SpartaDos X32? and x33 as well as Real.dos if someone wants it. Just let me know by e-mail and I will send you a copy.

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

 

Stephen J. Carden

[Stephen J. Carden]

I think Steve has the rights to SD as it applies to ExpressPro, not general use.

 

With any of the software floating around - don't give anyone who may hold the rights to them a reason ($) to come after you. As I remember, Mike distributed 4.22 for free, only charging for the manual. (if you needed one) This is not the same as PD or even shareware, but Mike would have a tough time trying to collect a significant judgement for something he gave away. Doesn't mean that he can't, it would just be problematic. I wouldn't try to sell copies of the manual, however...

 

If you want to distribute 3.3x, I would contact Steve Carden, but I doubt that he has the rights to distribute any version of SD outside of ExpressPro.

 

Bob

 

Ken Ames and Myself wrote x33a,b,c,d before Mike holman entered the picture. But Just to let you know Mike owes me for some hardware and $6000.00 for coding changes made to the Express Cart. The only I got out of mike was the changes to the express cart code but I do still have the source.

 

Stephen J. Carden

 

 

 

 

IIRC, I was told by Steve Carden that 3.3 was designed for BBS:Express PRO use - and that 3.3a was for emulator use - not real hardware. I don't think I've ever used 3.3b at all. Fuzzy! Of course my memory may be failing me somewhat. Maybe someone else here can clarify all this.

 

Hi,

 

what does "BBS:Express PRO use" exactly mean?

 

3.3a does not support hispeed, so it is suitable for the emulators SIO-patches. 3.3b supports hispeed and works very well with SIO2PC and SIO2USB.

 

Gtx

[Stephen J. Carden]

Hi there,

 

is there any official statement if SpartaDOS 3.3b pro can be used and distributed for own projects? It displays "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", but I'm not sure about the terms of use. Would be nice to know because SD 3.3 is really improved vs. SD3.2. Maybe some of the developers of SD 3.3b or involved person could answer my question.

 

Gtx,

 

walktari

 

Ok. I have an official update from Steve Carden on this matter.. He said he would post this himself, except for the fact that he despises web forums.. But anyone interested is free to email him at sjcarden@bellsouth.net.

 

 

 

he is not posting this himself, because that would violate the settlement agreement. so instead of being a played puppet. have him come forward and announce it in public himself so that you are not sucked into this also. there was another guy as i said, that was sucked into the last settlement. it turned out he was unemployed, and when his wife found out about the cease and desist letter, and that i was looking to settle this on his dime, she exploded. you do not want to be played.

 

 

a)Bob Klass never owned the rights to any incarnation of SpartaDOS.. When Mike Holman bought ICD's 8-bit product line, he released SpartaDos 3.2 as shareware.. This opened the door legally for the decompilation/reverse engineering of any of the 3.2 versions of Spartados.. At that time, Steve Carden had a copy fo the source code for Spartados 3.32c, a never released version of spartados, that Mike Gustavson had given him years previous to FTe's aquisition of ICD's stuff.. It was from this source code that SpartaDOS 3.3a,b,and c were built and advanced. Lance may have paid Bob for the "rights" to these compiled versions of the DOS, but the plain fact of the matter is that Bob never owned the rights to begin with..

 

 

 

bob contracted to have the dos built for bbs express professional. if this was not the case. mr. cardin had his chance to dispute this with my lawyers, never provided a thing, and agreed to a settlement.

 

 

b)Ken Ames was not the "main programmer" of Spartados 3.3a,b, or c.. He certainly contributed, but he never asked for any sort of compensation, and was well aware of the nature/reason/intended purpose of the three enhanced versions. Steve Carden only claims the rights to his own original source code, and never attempted to sell the rights to the actual DOS to Bob Klass or anyone else.. How could he? It wasnt his to sell..

 

 

 

according to ken ames, he never received a dime for being a contract programmer, and i believe him. mr. cardin was a contract programmer.

 

 

 

c)The reference "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", was put in by Steve Carden to show his distate for what Mike Holman and Bob Klass were doing to their customers... (ripping them off)... It stands for "International Fuck Your Buddy, Inc." heheh.. Essentially, Bob was using his credit card machine at the time to take orders for FtE merchandise, which Holman was not delivering...

 

 

what really happened was that fte went under, and mr. cardin never got paid the rest of the agreed upon amount from fte, and later we found out there was another programmer who received nothing also, even though bob made sure mr. cardin was paid, bob ended up paying for the dos twice. once bob stepped in to pay the rest. bob was screwed by fte also.

 

 

 

d)Steve does somewhat sympathise with Lance Rinquist, because Lance got taken by Bob Klass just like many others did.. But, if someone sells you a deed to the Golden Gate Bridge, and you are dumb enough to buy it, that does not in fact mean that you own the bridge...

 

 

mr. cardin supplied my lawyers with nothing. mr. cardin agreed to a settlement. mr. cardin is playing you, because he cannot post this stuff himself. you really do not want to get sucked into this.

 

 

 

Walktari, if there is any question of the rights to Sparta 3.3a/b/c pro, Steve said he will be more than happy to compile you a copy of Sparta 3.3d pro, which was never released and noone owns the rights to FOR SURE... Just shoot him an email...

 

 

you are advocating pirating my proprietary property, you are being played. if you do not renounce this immediately, i will complain to atariage, if there is no action then, i will be forced to go after you legally personally.

 

 

 

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

 

 

Lance you better check with your layer or paper boy what ever it it. Make sure you read this letter and the return receipt. I sent your layer a letter they even signed for it. You didn't respond in 30 day. That means you can not sell anything that has my name in it. I just can't beleive when you have all the facts in front of you that Bob sold you my property with out my permission. I will make this plane and clear you purchased stolen property. If this had been a product that made money you would be in a world of hurt wanting to sell stolen property across state lines. But the fact is there is not any money to be made in SpartaDos. It has no copy protection and can be copied with ease.

 

I am sorry all you good atari users I had not said anything about this because I felt it hurt the Atari user base. There is really cool hardware out there that makes your atari do things no one would ever have dreamed of.

 

Now lance scan your shit and post it or shut the fu** up. Take it like a man you got took by your best friend BOB Klaas!

 

And anyone who wants to use SpartaDos use it and enjoy it. After all it is a hobby it should be fun. Don't worry Real.dos is shareware and if you don't have the cash don't worry about it. If you like it use it and enjoy it. I also donated a Mux system to Trub who is making all the mods to SDX so your mux will work with SDX.

Return Recept.pdf

[video61atarisales]

 

 

you are advocating pirating my proprietary property, you are being played. if you do not renounce this immediately, i will complain to atariage, if there is no action then, i will be forced to go after you legally personally.

 

 

 

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

 

Hahah. Dont make me laugh.... Take your best shot... This is freedom of speech, for one thing... For another thing, if you do get some kind of rediculous judgement against me, I would find that hilarious.. According to texas state law, you cant touch anything of mine.. And my credit is already blown.. So "get in line" ... hahahah..

 

 

Also, if Spartados 3.3d pro is "your proprietary property" then produce the source... You can't.. because you never had it and certainly do not own it.. If Mr. Carden does in fact have it, unl;ess you can prove he sold it to Bob, you are full of crap...

 

 

i have the source, cardin even admits to it. my next step with you is atariage.

[video61atarisales]

Hi there,

 

is there any official statement if SpartaDOS 3.3b pro can be used and distributed for own projects? It displays "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", but I'm not sure about the terms of use. Would be nice to know because SD 3.3 is really improved vs. SD3.2. Maybe some of the developers of SD 3.3b or involved person could answer my question.

 

Gtx,

 

walktari

 

Ok. I have an official update from Steve Carden on this matter.. He said he would post this himself, except for the fact that he despises web forums.. But anyone interested is free to email him at sjcarden@bellsouth.net.

 

 

 

he is not posting this himself, because that would violate the settlement agreement. so instead of being a played puppet. have him come forward and announce it in public himself so that you are not sucked into this also. there was another guy as i said, that was sucked into the last settlement. it turned out he was unemployed, and when his wife found out about the cease and desist letter, and that i was looking to settle this on his dime, she exploded. you do not want to be played.

 

 

a)Bob Klass never owned the rights to any incarnation of SpartaDOS.. When Mike Holman bought ICD's 8-bit product line, he released SpartaDos 3.2 as shareware.. This opened the door legally for the decompilation/reverse engineering of any of the 3.2 versions of Spartados.. At that time, Steve Carden had a copy fo the source code for Spartados 3.32c, a never released version of spartados, that Mike Gustavson had given him years previous to FTe's aquisition of ICD's stuff.. It was from this source code that SpartaDOS 3.3a,b,and c were built and advanced. Lance may have paid Bob for the "rights" to these compiled versions of the DOS, but the plain fact of the matter is that Bob never owned the rights to begin with..

 

 

 

bob contracted to have the dos built for bbs express professional. if this was not the case. mr. cardin had his chance to dispute this with my lawyers, never provided a thing, and agreed to a settlement.

 

 

b)Ken Ames was not the "main programmer" of Spartados 3.3a,b, or c.. He certainly contributed, but he never asked for any sort of compensation, and was well aware of the nature/reason/intended purpose of the three enhanced versions. Steve Carden only claims the rights to his own original source code, and never attempted to sell the rights to the actual DOS to Bob Klass or anyone else.. How could he? It wasnt his to sell..

 

 

 

according to ken ames, he never received a dime for being a contract programmer, and i believe him. mr. cardin was a contract programmer.

 

 

 

c)The reference "(S)hareware 1995 by IFYB, Inc.", was put in by Steve Carden to show his distate for what Mike Holman and Bob Klass were doing to their customers... (ripping them off)... It stands for "International Fuck Your Buddy, Inc." heheh.. Essentially, Bob was using his credit card machine at the time to take orders for FtE merchandise, which Holman was not delivering...

 

 

what really happened was that fte went under, and mr. cardin never got paid the rest of the agreed upon amount from fte, and later we found out there was another programmer who received nothing also, even though bob made sure mr. cardin was paid, bob ended up paying for the dos twice. once bob stepped in to pay the rest. bob was screwed by fte also.

 

 

 

d)Steve does somewhat sympathise with Lance Rinquist, because Lance got taken by Bob Klass just like many others did.. But, if someone sells you a deed to the Golden Gate Bridge, and you are dumb enough to buy it, that does not in fact mean that you own the bridge...

 

 

mr. cardin supplied my lawyers with nothing. mr. cardin agreed to a settlement. mr. cardin is playing you, because he cannot post this stuff himself. you really do not want to get sucked into this.

 

 

 

Walktari, if there is any question of the rights to Sparta 3.3a/b/c pro, Steve said he will be more than happy to compile you a copy of Sparta 3.3d pro, which was never released and noone owns the rights to FOR SURE... Just shoot him an email...

 

 

you are advocating pirating my proprietary property, you are being played. if you do not renounce this immediately, i will complain to atariage, if there is no action then, i will be forced to go after you legally personally.

 

 

 

 

sjcarden@bellsouth.net

 

 

Lance you better check with your layer or paper boy what ever it it. Make sure you read this letter and the return receipt. I sent your layer a letter they even signed for it. You didn't respond in 30 day. That means you can not sell anything that has my name in it. I just can't beleive when you have all the facts in front of you that Bob sold you my property with out my permission. I will make this plane and clear you purchased stolen property. If this had been a product that made money you would be in a world of hurt wanting to sell stolen property across state lines. But the fact is there is not any money to be made in SpartaDos. It has no copy protection and can be copied with ease.

 

I am sorry all you good atari users I had not said anything about this because I felt it hurt the Atari user base. There is really cool hardware out there that makes your atari do things no one would ever have dreamed of.

 

Now lance scan your shit and post it or shut the fu** up. Take it like a man you got took by your best friend BOB Klaas!

 

And anyone who wants to use SpartaDos use it and enjoy it. After all it is a hobby it should be fun. Don't worry Real.dos is shareware and if you don't have the cash don't worry about it. If you like it use it and enjoy it. I also donated a Mux system to Trub who is making all the mods to SDX so your mux will work with SDX.

 

 

you really want to go down this road? if you do, i am ready, obtw, be prepared to have for me every piece of code you have ever written, and that means where you work also. because i will have the legal right to look thru it all. if we go down this road, where ever you have worked, i will be contacting them thru my lawyer to look at your work. because if there is one string of code, one routine that you have used of anything i own, and you use it in other work you have done, and i was not notified, or paid for usage of that code, you will be opening up a huge can of worms for you. the door swings both ways.

you better bone up on copyright law, if a programmer writes code for a copyright owner, the programmer does have rights to payment, and or royalties. but, the copyright owner becomes your partner in ownership of your routines. to get rid of my part of the ownership of your routines, you have to renounce any claims. so right now, if you have not renounced any claims, i am your partner in all code you have ever written. bet you did not know that did you? i will not let that go this time if you keep going down this road.

your employers will not be to happy to know you may have included stolen code in your work. they may not be to happy if i claim some of the code is mine, and i was never paid for it.

[Shawn Jefferson]

i have the source, cardin even admits to it. my next step with you is atariage.

 

Having the source and owning the copyright to the source are two different things. Did Bob Klaas ever actually own the copyright to SpartaDOS (ie, were the copyrights transferred to him from FTe/ICD?)

 

you better bone up on copyright law, if a programmer writes code for a copyright owner

 

It seems like this is the crux of the issue... who actually owns the copyright to SpartaDOS? Clearly Stephen doesn't own the copyright to SpartaDOS per se, but may own the copyrights to the modifications he made to it (3.3a,b,c).

 

Seems like some lawyers will make some money off SpartaDOS, but no one else.

[MEtalGuy66]

Yep.. Shawn is right.. As is the case all too often in our downwardly spiraling society these days, Lawyers will be the only ones profitting.. And all because a man won't admit he got fucked.... Really lance.. heh.. $400.00 for EVERYTHING K-products owned.. And how much profit have you actually seen from sales of Sparta Dos 3.3x pro over the last few years? It's been freely avaialble for download all over the web.. Do the operators of all those websites owe you damages for lost profits? hahaha.. How much legal funding are you willing to blow on this? You know how far $400.00 goes in a modern courtroom? Try about 5 minutes.. How pompous of an ass do you have to be to dump enough money into this thing to get any sort of resolution either way? The contract of sale you have with Bob is so damned vague that you'd have to dig up and sepina Mike Hohlman (I bet he'd just LOVE to show his face in the ATari community again,) Bob Klass, Ken Ames, Steve Carden, etc. and force them all to testify in court just to FIND OUT whether or not you actually hold legal claim to something that you stand little (if any) chance of making ANY MONEY off of... DUH..

 

And as far as Atari Age goes.. heh.. Dude, I am not distributing your property here.. Even if Spartados WAS in fact your property.. I can make whetever inferences I want, and connect whomever with whoever I want.. And even misrepresent whatever facts I want (Carmel Andrews does it constantly) That's called freedom of speech.. You go barking up that tree with Albert (you won't be the first) and he's gonna kindly inform you that if you don't like what's being said in any particular thread/forum, then you are more than welcome not to log on and read it anymore..

[ataridano]

That's something I don't quite understand in Atarians, first they buy a slow, serial drive, saying probably something like "it is compatible, good and fast enough for my purposes", and then they often try to work around SIO's slowness with e.g. ramdisks, even battery backed. A fast hard drive, being faster than a ramdisk, more capacitous and non-volatile, is the correct solution here IMHO. And it could make new programs better too.

Yep - that's why I've been looking around for an IDEa interface, but I can't find one.

 

Have you heard about the KMK/JZ IDE Hard Drive Interface yet? I don't know what the availability is but it sounds like just the thing. Some of the flash drives offer promise here too.

[dwhyte]

If I may, I'd like to lighten the mood of this thread a tad...

 

Two squirrels were walking along in the forest. The first one spied a nut and cried out, "Oh, look! A nut!"

 

The second squirrel jumped on it and said, "It’s my nut!"

 

The first squirrel said, "That’s not fair! I saw it first!"

 

"Well, you may have seen it, but I have it," argued the second.

 

At that point, a lawyer squirrel came up and said, "You shouldn’t quarrel. Let me resolve this dispute."

 

The two squirrels nodded, and the lawyer squirrel said, "Now, give me the nut."

 

He broke the nut in half, and handed half to each squirrel, saying, "See? It was foolish of you to fight. Now the dispute is resolved."

 

Then he reached over and said, "And for my fee, I’ll take the meat."

 

-----------------------------------------

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm rooting for Team Carden...

Edited February 3, 2010 by dwhyte

[flashjazzcat]

Have you heard about the KMK/JZ IDE Hard Drive Interface yet? I don't know what the availability is but it sounds like just the thing.

I was under the the impression that was the same thing as the IDEa interface. I enquired at the Atari Fan Store but I was told they were no longer in production.