66 replies to this topic

[SoulBlazer]

jahfish, on Tue Feb 9, 2010 6:43 PM, said:

it's war .... without the stars

Yeah, it seems Shawn is having a REALLY bad week.

[newtype5]

oh man, me too!
is swearing, pornographic emoticons, hate speech and a generally bad attitude ok here? i'm beginning to wonder.
(don't get me wrong, i love this site, and albert is a complete gentleman as far as i'm concerned. cpuwiz has been nothing but nice to me, and chickybaby is a sweet heart, so no, this is not a dig on the site or the mods). i'm just not understanding how the rules of conduct are applied in some instances.
i'm sure someone is going to call me a noob, but i've been playing atari since 1978. i'm of the opinion that we should support this small commmunity of users at the few good sites that focus on classic gaming, not constantly call names and start arguments. just look at the wonderful comradery between digital press and AA (news on the front page). peace & atari!

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Ah, we all know that Shawn is lovin Wickey secretly!

[Nukey Shay]

All I know is that nobody better post any links. He might have a gun.

[Cebus Capucinis]

iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin, on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:11 AM, said:

Ah, we all know that Shawn is lovin Wickey secretly!

I thought your theory was that it was carmelito!

DP? Pshaw! DP Sucks! We hate DP around here! I will call them a nasty name....let's see.....NINTENDO FANS! (J/K, DP is pretty cool!)

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Nukey Shay, on Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:12 AM, said:

All I know is that nobody better post any links. He might have a gun.

No guns but a Katana!!!

[iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin]

Cebus Capucinis, on Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:16 AM, said:

iwan-iwanowitsch-goratschin, on Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:11 AM, said:

Ah, we all know that Shawn is lovin Wickey secretly!

I thought your theory was that it was carmelito!

Shawn likes them all......he is the embodied LOVE!!!!

[Buyatari]

CPUWIZ, on Tue Feb 9, 2010 3:48 PM, said:

Buyatari, on Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:24 PM, said:

With dumped protos what is to stop fakes? If you take a real proto of a less desirable game and burn a more expensive proto onto those chips would it pass the test?

You couldn't do it with this particular title, it has a unique circuit board.

I know Saving Mary was on a rare board but at least one other game had the same one.

So I understand that some prototype boards are more common than others but was this board created just for this one game? Are there other games like that out there? That would cetainly add to the value of the prototype if it couldn't be copied. How about the other Star Wars games would those prototypes be different from this one?

[Wickeycolumbus]

Buyatari, on Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:56 PM, said:

CPUWIZ, on Tue Feb 9, 2010 3:48 PM, said:

Buyatari, on Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:24 PM, said:

With dumped protos what is to stop fakes? If you take a real proto of a less desirable game and burn a more expensive proto onto those chips would it pass the test?

You couldn't do it with this particular title, it has a unique circuit board.

I know Saving Mary was on a rare board but at least one other game had the same one.

So I understand that some prototype boards are more common than others but was this board created just for this one game? Are there other games like that out there? That would cetainly add to the value of the prototype if it couldn't be copied. How about the other Star Wars games would those prototypes be different from this one?

I wouldn't say the PCB is one of a kind, but It's the only one I've seen. It is what PB used for their games that used 'E0' bank switching before they designed their one chip version.

The Save Mary board isn't actually all that rare, it was used on the 2600 games that required the SARA chip, and games larger than 8K.

[christianscott27]

late to the post... saw a link about it elsewhere. For whatever its worth there is at least one NTSC proto that hasnt been mentioned as far as I can follow. A fellow Boston area collector named Joe found it a Cambridge Salvation Army. Our gamers group made a limited edition repro of the game in PB cases with the proper artwork (not that crap on the demo box) and a manual. In the process of doing that project we met with Larry Gelberg the programmer, he's a local and so was PB. The guy with the proto even had it signed by Larry! I lost touch with him a few years back but I'd be surprised if he would have sold it.

[Wickeycolumbus]

christianscott27, on Tue Apr 6, 2010 12:29 AM, said:

late to the post... saw a link about it elsewhere. For whatever its worth there is at least one NTSC proto that hasnt been mentioned as far as I can follow. A fellow Boston area collector named Joe found it a Cambridge Salvation Army. Our gamers group made a limited edition repro of the game in PB cases with the proper artwork (not that crap on the demo box) and a manual. In the process of doing that project we met with Larry Gelberg the programmer, he's a local and so was PB. The guy with the proto even had it signed by Larry! I lost touch with him a few years back but I'd be surprised if he would have sold it.

Cool, thanks for sharing! Is this the cart you are referring to? Did you get custom PCBs made for the reproductions?

[CPUWIZ]

Wickeycolumbus, on Tue Apr 6, 2010 10:59 AM, said:

christianscott27, on Tue Apr 6, 2010 12:29 AM, said:

late to the post... saw a link about it elsewhere. For whatever its worth there is at least one NTSC proto that hasnt been mentioned as far as I can follow. A fellow Boston area collector named Joe found it a Cambridge Salvation Army. Our gamers group made a limited edition repro of the game in PB cases with the proper artwork (not that crap on the demo box) and a manual. In the process of doing that project we met with Larry Gelberg the programmer, he's a local and so was PB. The guy with the proto even had it signed by Larry! I lost touch with him a few years back but I'd be surprised if he would have sold it.

Cool, thanks for sharing! Is this the cart you are referring to? Did you get custom PCBs made for the reproductions?

No, that "trade only" run was made hack & slash style.

[christianscott27]

I'm not a terribly technical person so I'll probably screw this part up. Initially we planned to simply dump the rom on the Salvation Army proto and make carts from it. However there were some issues with the bankswitching that made it impossible to do by the usual means. Thomas Jentz heard of our problem and applied a solution he came up with that allowed us to sidestep the bankswitching problem and use regular PCBs (again this isnt my area). Joe Grand put the PCBs together and I assembled the carts. The carts were a huge pain in the ass because PB used a lot of different molds and they were difficult to open without damaging them. It was nearly impossible to seat the boards in the shells because they were so different from the PB boards. Eventually I came up with a solution that involved use a dremel to cut matching notches in the board and shell. I've always wondered if anyone ever had a cart fall apart, it was a very experimental design. The manual was written by the guy who found the proto with input from Larry the programmer, I think its pretty definitive. I was particularly proud that I found the correct artwork, Larry gave us a clue and I spent hours searching the artist's online portfolio until I found it. We ended up selling a handful of carts to cover the material costs, the bulk were traded for other cool stuff, people who donated a dozen froggers to the cause got a copy for example. We were really afraid that Lucas would come after us but you know, it was a really small thing. I still have half a dozen copies squirreled away somewhere.

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[nofrills100]

christianscott27, on Tue Apr 6, 2010 10:30 PM, said:

I'm not a terribly technical person so I'll probably screw this part up. Initially we planned to simply dump the rom on the Salvation Army proto and make carts from it. However there were some issues with the bankswitching that made it impossible to do by the usual means. Thomas Jentz heard of our problem and applied a solution he came up with that allowed us to sidestep the bankswitching problem and use regular PCBs (again this isnt my area). Joe Grand put the PCBs together and I assembled the carts. The carts were a huge pain in the ass because PB used a lot of different molds and they were difficult to open without damaging them. It was nearly impossible to seat the boards in the shells because they were so different from the PB boards. Eventually I came up with a solution that involved use a dremel to cut matching notches in the board and shell. I've always wondered if anyone ever had a cart fall apart, it was a very experimental design. The manual was written by the guy who found the proto with input from Larry the programmer, I think its pretty definitive. I was particularly proud that I found the correct artwork, Larry gave us a clue and I spent hours searching the artist's online portfolio until I found it. We ended up selling a handful of carts to cover the material costs, the bulk were traded for other cool stuff, people who donated a dozen froggers to the cause got a copy for example. We were really afraid that Lucas would come after us but you know, it was a really small thing. I still have half a dozen copies squirreled away somewhere.

What's with the two titles 'revenge of the jedi' and the 'return of the jedi'?

[nofrills100]

.

Edited by nofrills100, Wed Apr 7, 2010 5:06 AM.

[Marc Oberhäuser]

Google is your friend (from wiki): ...The screenplay was written by Lawrence Kasdan and Lucas (with uncredited contributions by David Peoples and Marquand), based on Lucas' story. Kasdan claims he told Lucas that Return of the Jedi was "a weak title", and Lucas later decided to name the film Revenge of the Jedi.[2] Unusually, the screenplay itself was not created until rather late in pre-production, well after a production schedule and budget had been created by Kazanjian and Marquand had been hired...

[Zwackery]

Marc Oberhäuser, on Wed Apr 7, 2010 10:16 AM, said:

Google is your friend (from wiki): ...The screenplay was written by Lawrence Kasdan and Lucas (with uncredited contributions by David Peoples and Marquand), based on Lucas' story. Kasdan claims he told Lucas that Return of the Jedi was "a weak title", and Lucas later decided to name the film Revenge of the Jedi.[2] Unusually, the screenplay itself was not created until rather late in pre-production, well after a production schedule and budget had been created by Kazanjian and Marquand had been hired...

Lots of stories about the title change circulate around the internet, but according to the documentary Empire of Dreams: The Story of the Star Wars Trilogy, Lucas decided to change the title with the rationale that "revenge" is not a Jedi concept (cf., SW Ep III - Revenge of the Sith). Even this bit should be taken with a measure of pause as this is a recollection, albeit an oft-stated one.