25 replies to this topic

[Opry99er]

Keith and Codex have been talking about doing a Roguelike game on the TI. The concept, as I understand it, is to write a game with little to no graphics that has a plot, a game/scoring engine, etc.... Often dungeon crawlers work here.... Here is the link provided by Codex to a 7 day roguelike game building challenge. I think this would be fun, but Keith and Codex know alot more about it than I do.

http://roguebasin.ro...title=Main_Page

anyone feel like going Rogue?

[GroovyBee]

Sounds like a challenge and a half to get it all done in 168 hours starting from zero. Its probably not so bad if you aren't starting from scratch though.

[The Codex]

Sounds good to me! Maybe a competition for next month?

I'm willing to share my RL engine source code if anyone wants, though it's Java. I doesn't do much, but it does handle two of the worst programming tasks in roguelikes - pathfinding and lightcasting. Given the memory constraints of the TI however, it may make sense to go with the older style of roguelike that use simpler visibility and tracking models. I'm referring to games like Larn and Moria in this case, though the earliest releases of Hack apply as well.

[The Codex]

GroovyBee, on Tue Feb 9, 2010 11:27 AM, said:

Sounds like a challenge and a half to get it all done in 168 hours starting from zero. Its probably not so bad if you aren't starting from scratch though.

The 7 Day compo allows you to use any existing engine you've written, only the game itself has to be new. Otherwise I'd never consider it.

I want to get the basic of generic character handling into my engine before the compo starts, but the RL I have in mind will be different enough that even with that done it'll be tough to get the game finished in the timeframe.

[adamantyr]

I've considered writing a Roguelike myself for the TI. The main reason I haven't as of now is that with my CRPG work, I found myself borrowing and re-using a lot of the same concepts. So I've put it on the shelf for the moment. Also, the game I have in mind is real-time, like Sword of Fargoal, while Roguelikes are turn-based. (The better to minimize when the boss comes by...)

Regarding the TI's 40-column mode, it is only viewable in 2 colors, foreground and background. The only way to simulate a colored 40-column mode is by using bitmap mode with the full display (13k of video RAM required), and it would not be able to display each character in a distinct color. And it wouldn't be fast.

If you stick with a 32-column screen, you have a lot more power and flexibility. If you really want to be able to display any ASCII character in any color at any time, though, you'd still need to use bitmap mode with the full display.

Adamantyr

[The Codex]

Hmm, I can see I need to read up on TI display modes and write some test code. Thanks for the info!

[InfernalKeith]

I don't know much about it at all, I'm just learning a little bit myself, having heard of the term and seen some work being done on a couple games over on the vic-20 forum. If a contest is held too soon after the current one, I won't be able to play -- I've gotta get some other projects wrapped up, and I really want to get started on my Downward game soon. And one of these days, because I'm insane, I want to get up to speed on Vic-20 BASIC so I can start converting my games to that platform too.

If only I could get someone to pay me to retro-code full time...

[Opry99er]

Well if someone would pay me to retro-code full time, I would certainly be ecstatic. . You know, we should have a "homebrew haven" online somewhere where we charge a buck a download for all our retro games.... It IS possible to make a TI game windows executable, as in non-emulator..... I have a windows .exe version of Lemonade Stand.... User NEVER sees the TI environment.... Could be TI, could be VIC-20, could be anything..... But the user never knows--- double click on the icon, and the Lemonade Stand title screen pops up.

[sometimes99er]

Opry99er, on Tue Feb 9, 2010 2:03 PM, said:

It IS possible to make a TI game windows executable, as in non-emulator..... I have a windows .exe version of Lemonade Stand.... User NEVER sees the TI environment.... Could be TI, could be VIC-20, could be anything..... But the user never knows--- double click on the icon, and the Lemonade Stand title screen pops up.

Eh, what ? How do you do that ?

[Opry99er]

Send me a private email.

[sometimes99er]

Done.

[Opry99er]

Roguelikes..... I've been doing a little BBSing lately via Telnet and I've developed a love for these games!!! We've talked about doing one for the TI, so I've decided to build a Beryl Reichardt Roguelike in console BASIC alongside my XB game. It will teach me some things and keep me motivated. Talking about Wilhelms compiler got me excited to try scrolling in console BASIC run through the compiler. Essentially it will be a complete screen redraw each time the player moves, but in a compiled BASIC game, that whole screen draw takes less than half a second. It's Assembly for gosh sakes. . Anyway, it'll be fun and a cool experiment as I move forward with my actual Beryl Reichardt game. This will certainly test this compiler--- and my wits.

[Opry99er]

Wait--- just thought of something-- o don't think the compiler does disk access.... That puts a big damper on things....

[Opry99er]

XB Mockup of Beryl Reichardt "Roguelike edition". I did this in Magellan and then used the LOADMAP sub to create a datafile and the DRAWMAP routine to do it up in Classic99, and here's the pic. Hope you like it... if there's interest, I'll continue to build the concept and post some demos here.

[The Codex]

Cool deal! I keep meaning to revive my roguelike, and the TI would be a great place to do it. Note that roguelike purists would say you've broken one rule (using graphics instead of characters), but many roguelikes support graphical tiles as well so it's not a huge violation.

As a learning project this could be a good one for you. Though you'll likely also discover that graphics are the easier half of a game, it's the gameplay engine that'll wear you down.

[Vorticon]

You RPG nuts should get the book "Dungeons and Desktops" by Matt Barton which was suggested by Adamtyr on his CRPG development blog a while back. It's a fantastic read and really gives you a great overview of the evolution of RPG's from their very humble beginnings including Rogue and Rogue-like early efforts. Highly recommended.

[Opry99er]

Thanks for the suggestion, Vorticon. And Codex--- Those Roguelike purists can kiss my.... Well, anyway... The entire landscape will be ASCII, but quest items will be defined... I guess it's not a roguelike then....

[The Codex]

Nah, it still is. And you can easily silence all criticism by offering a "purist mode", which replaces any graphics with a character (since the graphics are already taken from characters anyway, the mode would just not redefine them as images). Not that any of this is crucial. The important thing is that the game be fun.

[Opry99er]

That's a great idea--- purist mode. Keith has suggested that we as a group come up with a standardized roguelike engine and build a giant universe where we all build a section... You could master Castle Owen, enter Keith-ylvania, and onto the ghost town of Codex... Basically we build our own roguelikes and the next segment could be loaded from diskette. What say you? I think it's a brilliant idea---Thanks Keith!

[The Codex]

Heh, that would make a good competition too - download the rogue engine and create a world for the game.

[Opry99er]

So let's talk about a rogue engine!!!  BASIC?  XB?  Assembly?  Modern PC application?  This whole thing has me jazzed up!!!  Yeeeeeeee hawww!!!!

That was my redneck-roguelike battlecry.  

[The Codex]

I can certainly suggested ideas and do some work in XB, but it would be great to have the final version in assembly. Especially if we use some of the more intensive-but-clever coding concepts like line-of-sight and a* pathfinding. I'll post my Java roguelike framework if folks are interested in seeing a simple implementation of these ideas.

[Opry99er]

I'm certainly interested in seeing what you've got!!!! I'd love to see the roguelike engine in assembly... Maybe even a cart?

[Opry99er]

For those of you with a telnet client on your PC/iPhone/mac...

telnet://nethack.alt.org

depending on your client, you may need to remove the "telnet://" from the front of that address. CLASSIC Roguelike. Wow.

[Opry99er]

Playing NetHack on my iPhone via TelNet client!!!

Edited by Opry99er, Sun May 2, 2010 9:46 PM.