orangest Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 When I try to play on my 7800, it opens with an "End of Level" screen for a second, then goes to the title screen, which has very distorted music. The game will usually play for a little bit and then usually ends up crashing in some way. I tried it out in my heavy-sixer, and got the same except that it displays "End of Level 98" upon starting. Just wondering if anyone else was having a similar problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 When I try to play on my 7800, it opens with an "End of Level" screen for a second, then goes to the title screen, which has very distorted music. The game will usually play for a little bit and then usually ends up crashing in some way. I tried it out in my heavy-sixer, and got the same except that it displays "End of Level 98" upon starting. Just wondering if anyone else was having a similar problem... Can you post the binary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangest Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 I originally got mine from the Rom Hunter collection. I also downloaded it from here with the same result. Road Runner (1989) (Atari, Robert C. Polaro) (CX2663) ~.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 It's a bad dump with incorrect start vectors. I don't know why it works in Stella unless F6 games start in the first bank (other bankswitch routines seem to start in the last bank, so it seems very odd that Stella would do this only for F6.) Fortunately with this one, the correct startup vectors are easy to fix, and I've done that, but perhaps I need to change Harmony code to match Stella for better compatibility with other bad dumps. Road Runner (1989) (Atari, Robert C. Polaro) (CX2663) (fixed) ~.bin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangest Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 It's a bad dump with incorrect start vectors. I don't know why it works in Stella unless F6 games start in the first bank (other bankswitch routines seem to start in the last bank, so it seems very odd that Stella would do this only for F6.) Fortunately with this one, the correct startup vectors are easy to fix, and I've done that, but perhaps I need to change Harmony code to match Stella for better compatibility with other bad dumps. Right now, Stella always uses bank 0 as startup for F4 and F6. I'm not sure why; perhaps testing indicated that those were the best values. For a correctly programmed ROM, it shouldn't really matter, but there are many bad dumps out there. F8 uses bank 1 by default, with the ability to use bank 0 (for certain ROMs that have the banks swapped). Again, this came from extensive testing. I'm not opposed to changing this scheme, but I'd want to know for sure that bank 1 is supposed to always be the startup bank. In other words, is this merely a convention (in which case Stella can ignore it), or was the hardware wired to work that way (in which case Stella is doing the emulation incorrectly)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 IMO Stella should start at a random bank (like the original), at least there should be an option. Same goes for Harmony, if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 It's a bad dump with incorrect start vectors. I don't know why it works in Stella unless F6 games start in the first bank (other bankswitch routines seem to start in the last bank, so it seems very odd that Stella would do this only for F6.) Fortunately with this one, the correct startup vectors are easy to fix, and I've done that, but perhaps I need to change Harmony code to match Stella for better compatibility with other bad dumps. Batari, Should a Road Runner cart be re-dumped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) IMO Stella should start at a random bank (like the original), at least there should be an option. Same goes for Harmony, if possible. I think Stella and Harmony have slightly different goals. Stella tries to emulate the hardware exactly and not necessarily work with all bad dumps, so that is the correct behavior for Stella. I think the goal for Harmony should be for compatibility with as many binaries as practical, bad dumps or not, so starting in random banks will move away from that goal. It's a bad dump with incorrect start vectors. I don't know why it works in Stella unless F6 games start in the first bank (other bankswitch routines seem to start in the last bank, so it seems very odd that Stella would do this only for F6.) Fortunately with this one, the correct startup vectors are easy to fix, and I've done that, but perhaps I need to change Harmony code to match Stella for better compatibility with other bad dumps. Batari, Should a Road Runner cart be re-dumped? I would say yes. I just fixed the reset vectors so the game will start properly in every bank. This works but may not exactly match what is actually on the actual ROM. Edited February 16, 2010 by batari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I'll see if I can find my cart and dump it this evening. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Here's the dump of Road Runner. Mitch ROADRUNNER.BIN 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Many thanks, Mitch. I will replace the old one in my collection. Perhaps Albert can do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Ok, done. Also replaced the one in our database. Edited February 17, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Just wondering if anyone has tested the new dump on a Harmony cart yet? Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangest Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 I have, and it works great for me, thank you. I discovered last night however that Midnight Magic won't boot up for me at all. Again checked with roms from Rom Hunter and AA. Sorry to be such a pain in the rear. Midnight Magic (Pinball Wizard) (1984) (Atari, Glenn Axworthy) (CX26129) ~.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I have, and it works great for me, thank you. I discovered last night however that Midnight Magic won't boot up for me at all. Again checked with roms from Rom Hunter and AA. Sorry to be such a pain in the rear. Great! Hmm, I guess I need to find my Midnight Magic cart now. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I haven't checked but I'll bet it's another bad dump. The Harmony sure is good at finding bad dumps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 I haven't checked but I'll bet it's another bad dump. The Harmony sure is good at finding bad dumps Yep, it seems that the reason Stella defaults to starting in the lower bank is because otherwise many ROMs didn't work otherwise. I always thought that this was providing more accurate emulation, but now it seems there really are quite a few bad dumps (and badly programmed games) out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkarner Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I've had these dumps of Road Runner and Midnight Magic for years. I forget where I got them but probably right here on AA and they both work fine on the Harmony Cart: Road Runner.bin Midnight Magic.bin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 And here is my Midnight Magic dump. Mitch MIDNIGHT MAGIC.BIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangest Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Hmmm...neither of those work on my Harmony cart, but thanks to you guys for posting them. I don't know what to say; I dug out my copy of Midnight Magic just to make sure my 7800 still knew how to play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzbard Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I just tried both versions of Midnight Magic and neither one worked. So, I downgraded the BIOS to 103 and they both worked. They just don't work with 104. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 (edited) Midnight Magic actually has a programming error. If it starts in bank 0, it's fine, but if it starts in another bank, it attempts to start by pushing reset vector minus one into the stack, switching to bank 0, and issuing a RTS. Only problem is, it doesn't initialize the stack pointer. Assuming random bank and random stack pointer, actual carts should have 37.5% chance of failure on 2600s (they may work 100% on 7800s due to the 7800 BIOS.) On Harmony, this failure rate is 100% because we start in a bank other than zero and although we start with a stack pointer initialized, it doesn't point to RAM so it won't work. I have fixed the binary but apparently I need to change the BIOS as well to always start F6 games in the first bank. Midnight_Magic_fix.bin Edited February 18, 2010 by batari 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Midnight Magic actually has a programming error. If it starts in bank 0, it's fine, but if it starts in another bank, it attempts to start by pushing reset vector minus one into the stack, switching to bank 0, and issuing a RTS. Interesting... I wonder if that's why my Midnight Magic cart doesn't always work 100% on my 2600. (The actual cart - not Harmony.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Midnight Magic actually has a programming error. If it starts in bank 0, it's fine, but if it starts in another bank, it attempts to start by pushing reset vector minus one into the stack, switching to bank 0, and issuing a RTS. Interesting... I wonder if that's why my Midnight Magic cart doesn't always work 100% on my 2600. (The actual cart - not Harmony.) That would be why! It should work most of the time, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.