43 replies to this topic

[kev187]

A question for my friends across the pond using this technology.

How much of an improvement from S-video to SCart RGB?

I ask.... as I am using a S-video to VGA scaler here on my LCD & it looks good, better than using the regular S-video in on my Monitor.

My Scaler also as input for 3-wire RGsB (scart?)

I was going to get a JAG scart cable & one of these Scart to RGB adapter

And hook it into my VGA scaler.

I know thats a lot, but if the RGB from the scart is an improved picture, can only get better right?

Thanks

[roland p]

Scart uses RGB + seperate Sync. I doubt the Scart to RGB adapter electrically combines Sync + Green signal. It looks more like something to be used with component video.

[Zerosquare]

Yes, the SCART-to-RGB adapter on your picture only works for stuff that outputs sync-on-green, which the Jaguar doesn't support.

RGB output on the Jaguar is a notch above S-video : very crisp, and with much better color resolution. For example, the background stars in Tempest 2000 tend to look whitish on S-video, but they're vividly colored on RGB.

[Thorsten Günther]

I always wonder why even in the age of internet many Americans seem to be blind to anything on the other side of the pond... buying a TV set like e.g. this one allows to run virtually any hardware that does output an analog signal of any kind, thus solving most of their problems with PAL hardware. Seems to be a Not Invented Here Syndrome that still prevents TV sets equipped with the French-invented SCART connector to reach the US market.

Thorsten

[Rybags]

SCART has had it's day... the connectors are too bulky, component does a job virtually as good, and HDMI is the new high-end standard that even $50 DVD players are outputting now.

On top of that, importing a foreign TV gives you the warrantee hassles if it plays up, and you're virtually guaranteed that you'll need a mains voltage convertor.

[boog]

I've got an RGB monitor that accepts either RGB or s-video and SCART RGB looks much better for all the older consoles. But, as everyone mentioned, I don't think that adapter is going to work for you because old consoles output separate sync, not sync on green. If your scaler or LCD has a standard 15-pin VGA type input, you could connect your old consoles into a SCART switchbox then build a custom SCART to 15-pin cable to get RGB into your LCD. Beware though that it does take some basic wiring/soldering skills to modify cables. If your LCD won't sync on composite video you'll either need to re-route the Jaguar's sync output to the appropriate monitor input pin or build a sync separator to strip sync from the composite video line. There's a lot of info on wiring RGB cables at gamesx.com.

Beware that a lot of the cheap SCART cables and switchboxes sold on ebay.uk are NOT RGB. SCART connectors can handle composite, s-video, or RGB depending on how they're wired. Most of the cheap parts are wired for composite only... if you need suggestions, just PM and I can let you know where I got my full RGB SCART cables/switchboxes.


SCART may have 'had it's day', but for older consoles from 'back in the day' it's the best display quality you can get.

[kev187]

boog, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:18 AM, said:

I've got an RGB monitor that accepts either RGB or s-video and SCART RGB looks much better for all the older consoles. But, as everyone mentioned, I don't think that adapter is going to work for you because old consoles output separate sync, not sync on green. If your scaler or LCD has a standard 15-pin VGA type input, you could connect your old consoles into a SCART switchbox then build a custom SCART to 15-pin cable to get RGB into your LCD. Beware though that it does take some basic wiring/soldering skills to modify cables. If your LCD won't sync on composite video you'll either need to re-route the Jaguar's sync output to the appropriate monitor input pin or build a sync separator to strip sync from the composite video line. There's a lot of info on wiring RGB cables at gamesx.com.

Beware that a lot of the cheap SCART cables and switchboxes sold on ebay.uk are NOT RGB. SCART connectors can handle composite, s-video, or RGB depending on how they're wired. Most of the cheap parts are wired for composite only... if you need suggestions, just PM and I can let you know where I got my full RGB SCART cables/switchboxes.


SCART may have 'had it's day', but for older consoles from 'back in the day' it's the best display quality you can get.

Thanks so much. I want to get the best out of my Jaguar on the Modern TV's. I don't think buying a TV and importing it is the best idea, waranty issues ect. I already own two nice LCD's do not need another

I do understand to watch out for the cheap scart. The official Jaguar Scart cable is RGB only correct? That's the one I would buy!

Once I got a scart cable, what about this device?

http://www.shinybowo...d=68&Itemid=116

It converts scart RGB to ybrpr analog component. Think its worth trying out?

Thanks everyone!

[boog]

kev187, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:44 AM, said:

I do understand to watch out for the cheap scart. The official Jaguar Scart cable is RGB only correct? That's the one I would buy!

Once I got a scart cable, what about this device?

http://www.shinybowo...d=68&Itemid=116

It converts scart RGB to ybrpr analog component. Think its worth trying out?

Thanks everyone!

There are both official and non-official Jaguar SCART cables but I think either are full RGB. I was actually warning about the cheap cables that advertise SCART->15 pin VGA or the SCART switchboxes on ebay.uk since many aren't wired for RGB.


Don't know anything about that converter box... it might work, but I wonder if you'd lose some picture quality in the conversion?

[kev187]

boog, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:03 AM, said:

kev187, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:44 AM, said:

I do understand to watch out for the cheap scart. The official Jaguar Scart cable is RGB only correct? That's the one I would buy!

Once I got a scart cable, what about this device?

http://www.shinybowo...d=68&Itemid=116

It converts scart RGB to ybrpr analog component. Think its worth trying out?

Thanks everyone!

There are both official and non-official Jaguar SCART cables but I think either are full RGB. I was actually warning about the cheap cables that advertise SCART->15 pin VGA or the SCART switchboxes on ebay.uk since many aren't wired for RGB.


Don't know anything about that converter box... it might work, but I wonder if you'd lose some picture quality in the conversion?

Thanks, good to know most of the scart cables are RGB, I have found a few different jag Scart Cables out there.

Yeah, who knows what the scaler will do. My S-video to VGA scaler definitely looks better than plugging the S-video directly to the LCD monitor, so I figure Scart RGB being superior, hooking that up to some sort of scaler should be an improvement over the S-video?

I guess I am the test dummy on this one

[Zerosquare]

The official Jaguar SCART cables output both composite and RGB.

A RGB -> YPbPr converter shouldn't (in theory) cause any loss of quality.

[kevincal]

Thorsten Günther, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:24 AM, said:

I always wonder why even in the age of internet many Americans seem to be blind to anything on the other side of the pond... buying a TV set like e.g. this one allows to run virtually any hardware that does output an analog signal of any kind, thus solving most of their problems with PAL hardware. Seems to be a Not Invented Here Syndrome that still prevents TV sets equipped with the French-invented SCART connector to reach the US market.

Thorsten

So you are saying Americans are not smart because we are not paying $300 for a tiny 13 inch TV so we can use SCART to get only a smidge better clarity over S Video!?

[Thorsten Günther]

kevincal, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:55 PM, said:

Thorsten Günther, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:24 AM, said:

I always wonder why even in the age of internet many Americans seem to be blind to anything on the other side of the pond... buying a TV set like e.g. this one allows to run virtually any hardware that does output an analog signal of any kind, thus solving most of their problems with PAL hardware. Seems to be a Not Invented Here Syndrome that still prevents TV sets equipped with the French-invented SCART connector to reach the US market.

So you are saying Americans are not smart because we are not paying $300 for a tiny 13 inch TV so we can use SCART to get only a smidge better clarity over S Video!?

The TV/DVD combo in the link was just an example - since it also runs on 12V DC and 110V AC and supports NTSC, I considered buying one of them for the next Fujiama and other ABBUC meetings and the E-Jagfest where carrying a larger TV set becomes a major PITA. Every TV set (except for some tiny portables) in Europe has at least one SCART connector, and allowed European customers to run e.g. Japanese PC-Engines, American Jaguars and Japanese PlayStations without any NTSC vs. PAL issues before the European versions became available (also cirumventing Sony's regional lockouts). TV sets with SCART connectors also serve as a very good alternative to SC1224 or Commodore 1084 monitors, and are available in larger sizes, I might add. So for the retro gamer, I consider it a great idea to have at least one TV with it.

Why SCART never made it over the pond 20+ years ago still puzzles me.


Thorsten

[remowilliams]

Zerosquare, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:49 AM, said:

A RGB -> YPbPr converter shouldn't (in theory) cause any loss of quality.

I use a SCART RGB > Component converter for quite a few classic consoles and the results are fantastic.

[kev187]

remowilliams, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:51 PM, said:

Zerosquare, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:49 AM, said:

A RGB -> YPbPr converter shouldn't (in theory) cause any loss of quality.

I use a SCART RGB > Component converter for quite a few classic consoles and the results are fantastic.

Thats very good to hear What model component converter are you using?

I came across this device. Does not look bad. Scart to Component

[remowilliams]

kev187, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:53 PM, said:

I came across this device. Does not look bad.

Seems a bit pricey. Mine looks like this one. You have to pay attention though as many of these things come with 220V power supplies.

Generally you'll need to break out the audio from the SCART connector as well (since the conversion boxes just do video). Many of us use SCART switchboxes that have separate audio outs on them.

[kev187]

remowilliams, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:14 PM, said:

kev187, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:53 PM, said:

I came across this device. Does not look bad.

Seems a bit pricey. Mine looks like this one. You have to pay attention though as many of these things come with 220V power supplies.

Generally you'll need to break out the audio from the SCART connector as well (since the conversion boxes just do video). Many of us use SCART switchboxes that have separate audio outs on them.

Yeah... thats a better deal, too bad I would spend at least $30 at Radio Shack getting a proper power supply. I ordered a Scart Cable that had a break out cable for Audio for the jag. Should be good to go on the Audio :-)

I am going to see if I can find a 110v power supply to meet the specs of that one, if not, Ill just go for the $99 one

[ovalbugmann]

This below is what I am planning on doing: Using an official Atari Jaguar Scart/Peritel cable, to a "Scart to HDMI Converter & Scaler" then just a HDMI cable to a HD Television. This I understand it is the best setup for modern TVs.

ovalbugmann, on Sat Jan 2, 2010 10:03 AM, said:

lNFERNO, on Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:47 PM, said:

If you really want to see the highest quality on your HDTV, you need this:

The Atari Jaguar Scart RGB cable:

Scart RGB Cable


And a cool scaler converter like this:

Scart to HDMI

Scales up SCART RGB to HDMI 720p format

I am still using only very large CRT televisions, but I'm seriously thinking about an LCD or Plasma HDTV and I definitely want to play my Jaguar through it. I am thinking about doing what Inferno has said here for the Jaguar: An official Jag Scart/Perital(same thing right?) cable running into a "Scart to HDMI" converter unit box & upscaler, then just a good HDMI cable to connect it to an HDTV.

So I have been thinking about buying a very expensive official Atari Perital cable on TelgamesUK or possibly from Best electronics or myatari(will see if they have 'em) and then looking at these units:

http://rover.ebay.co...&mtid=824&kw=lg

Would this setup work? and would it probably provide the best picture for the Jag on a modern HDTV as Inferno says?

Thanks for any input here.

Zerosquare, on Sat Jan 2, 2010 11:59 AM, said:

Yes it'll work, and if the scaler is a good one, this is how you'll get the best quality.

I have no idea why official SCART/Péritel (yep, same thing) video cables are so expensive.

If you're not afraid of soldering, building one yourself is much cheaper. Check those topics :

http://www.atariage....ost__p__1407739
http://www.atariage....ost__p__1308919

I was going to do this: (a RGB converter/scaler from Ambery corp to use with my VGA CRT computer monitor using the RGB db9 output port from the Catbox) However, the specialized db9(Catbox) to db15(VGA) cable included with the Ambery device is for the Amiga Computers and I have not made a cable as per the Jaguar needed cableing pinouts Zerosquare posted for me, so that this could work.

Kev187: DID YOU MAKE A NEEDED CUSTOM CABLE YET FOR YOUR AMBERY VGA RGB/SCALER -THE REQUIRED CATBOX TO AMBERY CONVERTER/SCALER CONNECTION??

[remowilliams]

ovalbugmann, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:00 PM, said:

This below is what I am planning on doing: Using an official Atari Jaguar Scart/Peritel cable, to a "Scart to HDMI Converter & Scaler" then just a HDMI cable to a HD Television. This I understand it is the best setup for modern TVs.

Well from what I've seen so far - I can say that the SCART RGB > HDMI conversion looks like complete ass compared to SCART RGB > Component.

[ovalbugmann]

remowilliams, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:09 PM, said:

ovalbugmann, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:00 PM, said:

This below is what I am planning on doing: Using an official Atari Jaguar Scart/Peritel cable, to a "Scart to HDMI Converter & Scaler" then just a HDMI cable to a HD Television. This I understand it is the best setup for modern TVs.

Well from what I've seen so far - I can say that the SCART RGB > HDMI conversion looks like complete ass compared to SCART RGB > Component.

OK, so Jaguar carried on HDMI signals sucks then(wonder why tho?) -even with using a good quality Scart to HDMI Converter & Scaler?

So I guess Rybags info is no good:

Rybags, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:29 AM, said:

SCART has had it's day... the connectors are too bulky, component does a job virtually as good, and HDMI is the new high-end standard that even $50 DVD players are outputting now.

On top of that, importing a foreign TV gives you the warrantee hassles if it plays up, and you're virtually guaranteed that you'll need a mains voltage convertor.

Ok Remo, your saying then I would be better off with Scart RGB to Component YPbPr, like the one you posted:
eBay Auction -- Item Number: 370337155253

What, less than optimal, Jaguar signals carried to a TV by HDMI cabling have you seen, what was bad about it?

I had to read the following from wiki to understand that YPbPr is for analog composite signals(is this what the Jag RGB output is?????-can you or someone confirm this?) & YCbCr is for digital signals.

Quote

YPbPr[1] is a color space used in video electronics, in particular in reference to component video cables. YPbPr is the analog version of the YCbCr color space; the two are numerically equivalent, but YPbPr is designed for use in analog systems whereas YCbCr is intended for digital video.

Because people often get tongue-tied trying to say YPbPr quickly they are also commonly referred to as Yipper cables.[2] YPbPr is commonly called "component video", but this is a misnomer, as there are many other types of component video (mostly RGB with sync either on green or one or two separate signals).

YPbPr is converted from the RGB video signal, which is split into three components, Y, PB, and PR.[3]
Y carries luma (brightness) and sync information.
PB carries the difference between blue and luma (B − Y).
PR carries the difference between red and luma (R − Y).

Sending a green signal would be redundant, as it can be derived using the blue, red and luma information.

YPbPr cables are not physically different from composite video cables and can be used interchangeably. This means that the yellow RCA Connector cable commonly packaged with most audio/visual equipment can be used in place of the YPbPr connectors, provided the end user is careful to keep track of the device functions (i.e. Connect the functions together using any cable colour)

Some video cards come with Video In Video Out (VIVO) ports for connecting to component video devices.

That's what I will plan to do then , Thanks Remo. I recently bought an official Jaguar Scart cable on ebay.co.uk for 39.00GBP shipped, was now $64.13US (exchange rate got better for US buyers!) and so I will just need to buy the converter/scaler unit on eBay you linked to Remo and good composite cable wiring then -cool. I didn't know that HDMI was inferior in some way to YPbPr composite.

Edited by ovalbugmann, Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:02 PM.

[remowilliams]

Hmm, lots of things to cover there...

Jaguar RGB output is low rate (15Khz) analog RGB.

YPbPr (component) is not analog composite, but analog discrete similar to RGB analog. YPbPr is not digital.

Composite video is what the yellow plug would be in a common Jaguar (or other) video/audio cable (yellow/white/red RCAs).

HDMI is most definitely the future of connections vs. component video.

HDMI is not inferior to component video (YPbPr) - however the SCART RGB (15Khz RGB) to component video converters seem to have a vastly superior picture quality in comparison to the SCART RGB (15Khz RGB) to HDMI converters. This is likely due to the extra amount of conversion/scaling done in the HDMI converters.

So, AFAIC if your display can accept component video, a SCART RGB cable for the Jag and a SCART RGB > component video converter would be the way to go.

Does that make sense? Hopefully I didn't confuse the hell out of you.

[ovalbugmann]

remowilliams, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:14 PM, said:

Generally you'll need to break out the audio from the SCART connector as well (since the conversion boxes just do video). Many of us use SCART switchboxes that have separate audio outs on them.

Hmmm....I see it's not as easy as I understood and described above to do, as there is not audio on that box. So I see that I would need to use an Scart switchbox?(never heard of it) to separate the audio BEFORE it goes into the: "SCART RGB to YPbPr Component Video Converter,Scaler." Otherwise I will have no way to get audio.

Can you or someone recommend one of these Scart Switchboxes, please?

Edited by ovalbugmann, Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:12 PM.

[remowilliams]

ovalbugmann, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:11 PM, said:

So I see that I would need to use an Scart switchbox?(never heard of it) to separate the audio BEFORE it goes into the: "SCART RGB to YPbPr Component Video Converter,Scaler." Otherwise I will have no way to get audio.

That is correct. I use a switchbox that looks exactly like this one to separate out the audio and of course allow me to handily switch between different SCART connectors for different systems.

[ovalbugmann]

remowilliams, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:08 PM, said:

Does that make sense? Hopefully I didn't confuse the hell out of you.

Yes Thank You!, I was able to fully understand all that, and I learned about:

Quote

YPbPr (component) is not analog composite, but analog discrete similar to RGB analog.

Also, thank you for describing the problem of the Scart -to- HDMI converters as well.

Well, it seems I am ready to take my Jaguar into the 21st Century!! With only one more piece of this highly technical puzzle to connect: That is getting audio if I buy the Scart > Composite converter box you linked to on eBay. What is this SCART SWITCHBOX?

[remowilliams]

ovalbugmann, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:20 PM, said:

Well, it seems I am ready to take my Jaguar into the 21st Century!! With only one more piece of this highly technical puzzle to connect: That is getting audio if I buy the Scart > Composite converter box you linked to on eBay. What is this SCART SWITCHBOX?

The complete chain as we've been discussing would be:

1) Jaguar RGB SCART cable > SCART switchbox (here you split off the audio to your display with a set of RCA cables)

2) SCART cable from SCART switchbox to SCART>component video converter

3) component video cables (YPbPr / red/green/blue) from SCART/component video converter to your display

Voila!

[ovalbugmann]

Great, Thanks again Remo -I just checked out the Scart Switchbox you linked to;

It has the A/V Phono Outputs I need. So then I would plug the Jaguar with it's Scart cable into the switchbox, so I can have the audio Phono Outputs, and then I would just need a common Scart cable to get the video signals to the: "SCART RGB to YPbPr Component Video Converter,Scaler" box you linked to earlier.

Edited by ovalbugmann, Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 PM.