KryoFlux - USB controller to read all your old disks

[mr.vince]

Hi there,

 

this is not directly a piece if hardware for any Atari computer, but might be very helpful anyway I guess...

 

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KryoFlux is an advanced software-programmable FDC (Floppy Disk Controller) system made by Softpres that runs on small and cheap ARM7-based devices and connects to a host PC over the ubiquitous USB connector. It reads (and in the future, will write) flux transitions from magnetic media (most commonly, floppy disks) at a very fine resolution. KryoFlux can read data with no regard for what disk format or copy protection a disk may contain, and it can also read disks originally written with different (and even varying) bit cell widths and drive speeds, with a normal fixed-speed drive.

 

KryoFlux supports dumping any floppy disk to “stream files”, which contain the raw flux transition information. It supports output of a range of common “sector dumps” (e.g. ADF, ST) to allow you to use your dumped images right away in your favourite emulator.

 

KryoFlux is available for free for private non-commercial use. You will of course need to build or buy a board based on our open hardware design.

 

Watch the trailer

More information

Beta 3 Release News Item (including download!)

 

We have just released KryoFlux beta 3.

 

 

Like the sound of it? Great. You might have already known this much, but did you also know that KryoFlux:

 

* Checks the data for sector formats to ensure data integrity.

* Allows you to indicate the target platform even when dumping to stream files in order to still do appropriate integrity checks.

* Allows you to dump disks to stream files and to a more emulator-friendly image formats **at the same time**. So for a dual format Amiga/Atari ST disk, KryoFlux can produce stream files, a .ADF and a .ST all on-the-fly while dumping the disk.

* Allows you to use stream files dumped previously as a "virtual floppy" in order to produce sector dumps later.

 

A rather insane amount of work has been put into this system to resolve the ongoing issues we see in the retro-computing and preservation world. All this for the cost of building/buying the hardware detailed by our public domain / open hardware designs (Hardware manufacturers: Did you just hear us say public domain hardware design? Yes you did! You can build this hardware right now and sell it with no further input from us. If you would like to sell it under our "KryoFlux" or "KryoFlux Compatible" trademarks (and you probably do, given this will get your product officially endorsed and promoted by us), no problem! You just need to obtain a license and certification - please contact us for more information.).

 

In summary, here are the image types supported in beta 3:

 

- KryoFlux stream files

- CT Raw image, 84 tracks, DS, DD, 300, MFM

- FM sector image, 40/80+ tracks, SS/DS, DD/HD, 300, FM

- FM XFD, Atari 8-bit

- MFM sector image, 40/80+ tracks, SS/DS, DD/HD, 300, MFM

- MFM XFD, Atari 8-bit

- AmigaDOS sector image, 80+ tracks, DS, DD/HD, 300, MFM

- CBM DOS sector image, 35+ tracks, SS, DD, 300, GCR

- Apple DOS 3.2 sector image, 35+ tracks, SS, DD, 300, GCR

- Apple DOS 3.3+ sector image, 35+ tracks, SS, DD, 300, GCR

- DSK, DOS 3.3 interleave

- Apple DOS 400K/800K sector image, 80+ tracks, SS/DS, DD, CLV, GCR

 

Given that "FM sector image" and "MFM sector image" doesn't sound very glamorous, let us just point out that due to intelligent handling, this supports basically any normal disk used for systems that contain a generic FM or MFM FDC - for example, all those weird synthesiser sample disk formats should work right out of the box!

 

Also, as far as we are aware, KryoFlux is the only system free for private, non-commercial use that can produce sector dumps for both Apple DOS 3.2 and 3.3 disks without interfacing to original drives and/or machines.

 

All this means we support pretty much any platform already: Acorn Electron, Apple, Amstrad CPC, Archimedes, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, BBC, Commodore 64, Commodore Amiga, MSX, IBM PC, PC-8801, Sam Coupe, Spectrum, and many, many others.

 

Join the beta...

[mr.vince]

MINI FAQ:

 

Q. Why is it free?

A. Because we are a non-profit preservation organisation, and our ultimate goal is not financial, but to save all these wonderful games before they are lost.

 

Q. Do I need a special drive?

A. No. Just a standard PC drive and floppy cable is required to dump any media for that drive.

 

Q. Does it work with 5 1/4" drives?

A. Yes. Check 1min 10secs into the YouTube trailer.

 

Q. Will it work on a laptop?

A. Yes. It uses standard USB. We have it running on an EeePC.

 

Q. Why can't I just use the floppy drive in my PC?

A. The floppy controller in the PC can only read the very strict format PC disks, and not very much of anything from other platforms. Not only that, but any copy protection on disks is hard to extract properly without a "low level" read - which you can't do through a PC's FDC. For various reasons, we would strongly argue that images of disks read through a PC floppy controller are unsuitable for preservation.

 

Q. Is it Windows only?

A. The software is currently in beta, and only runs on Windows (32 or 64-bit, Windows XP or greater). The source to the host software will be available after we go final, and we are then hoping to get it ported to as many platforms as possible. The code was written with portability in mind.

 

Q. Is it command-line only usage?

A. For the beta, yes. However, we are working on a graphical user interface which will likely be available when we go final.

[fiath]

Just a note in case anyone here is interested. KryoFlux board production will start pretty soon, so if you are interested in KryoFlux, please visit the KryoFlux website at http://www.kryoflux.com and take the chance to tell us. This registration is not binding, but will help us estimate demand. You can also read more about KryoFlux at that link.

[tregare]

Just a note in case anyone here is interested. KryoFlux board production will start pretty soon, so if you are interested in KryoFlux, please visit the KryoFlux website at http://www.kryoflux.com and take the chance to tell us. This registration is not binding, but will help us estimate demand. You can also read more about KryoFlux at that link.

 

 

for those of us who are masochistic, are the schematics of the board available so we can build our own?

[fiath]

Yes, they are indeed. You can get them here (in EAGLE format): http://releases.softpres.org/kryoflux/kryoflux_1.0b4.zip

 

HOWEVER, you should probably wait as there has been some changes since then. We're still testing prototypes, but once that is complete, we will publish the updated versions.

[Video]

Cool, can it read other languages? Like I could copy my old C64 stuff to the computer to back up or run on emulators?

[fiath]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by other languages, but yes, it can be used to back up your C64 software and/or play in emulators. There are a few caveats though:

 

1) Imaging "flippy" disks requires a drive modification.

2) You can use a "sector image" to play in emulators, but if they are copy protected, you will need to use the raw flux transition stream. That would have to be supported in emulators first.

3) There is no guarantee the disk or read is good. For that you can help us preserve the software, as that is something we specialise in (softpres.org).

4) Copy protected games may require emulation features that emulators have not really had to deal with yet. This may not be true for C64, but it has certainly been true for other platforms so I'll assume it is.

5) A few types of copy protection may require the image be represented as an IPF to work reliably.

 

I hope that helps!

[Keatah]

I assume this can read the 'copy-protected' disks from the Apple II era. I have thousands of those! Most are still working. I would like to use this as a way to archive them on a pc. At least on some media that can easily be refreshed every 10 years or so. I assume this hardware would make short work of that idea??!!??

 

Well anyways sign me up!

went back and reread the op, frakking incredible!!! crap! get me two of these boards. And in my spare time I suppose I could get going on implementing this in the Applewin emu..!

Edited July 16, 2010 by Keatah

[fiath]

Yes, you can indeed read Apple II copy protected disks. However, if you want to be able to read the second side of "flippy" disks, you will need a modified drive. This is something we are working on.

 

We at the Software Preservation Society (http://softpres.org) are very interested in preserving Apple II software, and if you are interested in getting a KryoFlux device, it would be wonderful if you could help us with that.

 

As to implementing support in Applewin, that would be superb! Having said that, it would probably be easier to help us with the preservation so we can represent the games in IPF format, and have Applewin support that. The raw flux transition timing files are very big, and we do lots of checking to ensure that the disk does not have errors, and has not been modified after the original mastering.

[Keatah]

Yes, you can indeed read Apple II copy protected disks. However, if you want to be able to read the second side of "flippy" disks, you will need a modified drive. This is something we are working on.

 

We at the Software Preservation Society (http://softpres.org) are very interested in preserving Apple II software, and if you are interested in getting a KryoFlux device, it would be wonderful if you could help us with that.

 

As to implementing support in Applewin, that would be superb! Having said that, it would probably be easier to help us with the preservation so we can represent the games in IPF format, and have Applewin support that. The raw flux transition timing files are very big, and we do lots of checking to ensure that the disk does not have errors, and has not been modified after the original mastering.

 

All of my Apple ][, ][+, //e, //c //gs, and //c+ software is on single sided 5.25 disks. My //gs collection of originals is almost non-existant! I never got into collecting for that system, but I know someone who has..

 

How big a file(ipf) are we looking at? 500kb? a meg? 10megs? Not that it matters in this day and age of TB drives.

 

All of my software of about 2000+ disks with manuals and instruction sheets is still in the plastic baggies and has been stored correctly over the years. Sure there will be a few abused disks here and there. And some are totally unopened.

 

The only changes done to some of the disks might be the 'save game' feature. But then, there is the flipside of the disk, many companies put a 2nd copy on the back - for a time when the first side gave up the ghost. I did mark the disks with a red-dot adhesive tag indicating the disk ][ drive may have saved information.

 

I have a modded Disk ][ that indicates when it was writing or reading. Red for write, green for read, aqua-blue for motor-on, yellow bar segments, all 34 of them, indicating head position, and appropriately flashing for 1/2 and quarter tracks. Back then though, it was simply red for write and green for read. The track indicator is a new addition.

 

Most of the games we played when I was a kid we made 'bit-copies' of using Locksmith or Echo II. Because we knew we'd mess up the disks with careless abandon. Or we'd use cracked copies because they'd load a couple orders of magnitude faster. We were drilled with the correct handling procedures of these disks because they were so expensive and delicate.

 

I knew that sooner or later, a day would come when a piece of hardware would let us do exactly this. Having said that I don't want to build one of the boards now, it's summertime and I'm not gonna spend time indoors with a soldering iron and dmm. So perhaps over the winter.

 

Anyhow, a library of software awaits!

Edited July 16, 2010 by Keatah

[Keatah]

Yes, you can indeed read Apple II copy protected disks. However, if you want to be able to read the second side of "flippy" disks, you will need a modified drive. This is something we are working on.

 

We at the Software Preservation Society (http://softpres.org) are very interested in preserving Apple II software, and if you are interested in getting a KryoFlux device, it would be wonderful if you could help us with that.

 

As to implementing support in Applewin, that would be superb! Having said that, it would probably be easier to help us with the preservation so we can represent the games in IPF format, and have Applewin support that. The raw flux transition timing files are very big, and we do lots of checking to ensure that the disk does not have errors, and has not been modified after the original mastering.

 

All of my Apple ][, ][+, //e, //c //gs, and //c+ software is on single sided 5.25 disks. My //gs collection of originals is almost non-existant! I never got into collecting for that system, but I know someone who has..

 

How big a file(ipf) are we looking at? 500kb? a meg? 10megs? Not that it matters in this day and age of TB drives.

 

All of my software of about 2000+ disks with manuals and instruction sheets is still in the plastic baggies and has been stored correctly over the years. Sure there will be a few abused disks here and there. And some are totally unopened.

 

The only changes done to some of the disks might be the 'save game' feature. But then, there is the flipside of the disk, many companies put a 2nd copy on the back - for a time when the first side gave up the ghost. I did mark the disks with a red-dot adhesive tag indicating the disk ][ drive may have saved information.

 

I have a modded Disk ][ that indicates when it was writing or reading. Red for write, green for read, aqua-blue for motor-on, yellow bar segments, all 35+ of them, indicating head position, and appropriately flashing for 1/2 and quarter tracks. Back then though, it was simply red for write and green for read. The track indicator is a new addition.

 

Most of the games we played when I was a kid we made 'bit-copies' of using Locksmith or Echo II. Because we knew we'd mess up the disks with careless abandon. Or we'd use cracked copies because they'd load a couple orders of magnitude faster. We were drilled with the correct handling procedures of these disks because they were so expensive and delicate.

 

I knew that sooner or later, a day would come when a piece of hardware would let us do exactly this. Having said that I don't want to build one of the boards now, it's summertime and I'm not gonna spend time indoors with a soldering iron and dmm. So perhaps over the winter.

 

Anyhow, a library of software awaits!

[Video]

So it sounds like I may or may not be able to play a 64 game on an emulator, but the drive should read and write the disc and still play on the actual hardware? That's cool. I got a few old games that quit working on me, the non copy protected stufff, or hacks are easy enough to keep up, but some of my official gamesare getting a bit old.

[fiath]

some great stuff...

 

An IPF file is a description of the disk data, and what that data means. It is similar to how the disks were originally represented for mastering, since you need to know what you are writing in order to make that writing reliable for reading. For IPF, this helps for emulation, and will always work (assuming the emulator is up to it).

 

KryoFlux does not provide IPF files, it provides a raw stream of flux transition timing. Eventually, this will be a standard open file format called DRAFT, which can be supported in emulators, my only point was that it won't have reliability guarantees like an IPF would. We can use DRAFT files, which will give us the information we need to verify they are good (both integrity-wise and authenticity-wise), and generate the IPF file.

 

Also, a DRAFT file is complicated to process. You don't even know what bitcells are yet! So as I said, emulator use is possible, it's just more complicated. We provide a library for IPF files that provide the emulator with the data they need.

 

Single-sided 5.25 disks - great. That will definitely make things simpler.

 

IPF files for Apple II would be in the region of 200 KB - 500 KB I guess, depends on how much of the disk is used. DRAFT files for Apple II might be around 12-15 Mb I would think.

 

Your collection sounds wonderful! No need to worry about save games -we specifically check for that. Because of the differences between systems, we can see if there are any modifications to the data. It's excellent you used copies of the disks to play - I wish I had been as disciplined!

 

As to building KryoFlux, that is exactly what we had been hearing. In fact, I personally didn't want to build one either. We didn't actually want to go to the trouble to get the manufactured, but to get them out there, it seems the only way. Anyway, if anyone is interested they can help us predict the numbers to make here: http://www.kryoflux.com

[fiath]

So it sounds like I may or may not be able to play a 64 game on an emulator, but the drive should read and write the disc and still play on the actual hardware? That's cool. I got a few old games that quit working on me, the non copy protected stufff, or hacks are easy enough to keep up, but some of my official gamesare getting a bit old.

 

Well, our primary interest is preservation, so we are very interested in making IPF files for all systems, but obviously we would like help with this! If emulator authors provide support for DRAFT, you could load them directly, my only point is that your success in that is likely to be mixed. It should work for most disks, but there are lots more technical problems than the IPF route.

 

As for writing, that is something that still need to be done, but yes, it is planned.

[Keatah]

some great stuff...

 

 

 

As to building KryoFlux, that is exactly what we had been hearing. In fact, I personally didn't want to build one either. We didn't actually want to go to the trouble to get the manufactured, but to get them out there, it seems the only way. Anyway, if anyone is interested they can help us predict the numbers to make here: http://www.kryoflux.com

 

 

The most annoying part of building projects like these is gathering the parts and placing 20 orders from 10 different places while observing the minimum order requirements and all the other fine details. And in this day and age of the internet, everybody is used to instant-gotta-have it now satisfaction. Electronics hobby stuff is not like it used to be in the 70's!

[candle]

hi

 

just wonder - for now it doesn't write as i read, but its planned feature - will hardware need to be modified for this, or i can simply make one myself now, and wait patiently for new firmware with write support?

i've been waiting for some possibility of getting amiga disks back into my amiga, besides there are other platforms of my concern that would greatly apreciate system like that

i know there is a hxc floppy emulator, but this seems more like the way i would like to go

[AB Positive]

I'm more interested in a write feature, but be assured that when it's implemented I'm going to snap one up ASAP! I can't tell you how many Workbench disks I've lost even in just the last year (and in fact have none now to work on the two miggy's I got kicking around )

 

-AB

[mr.vince]

Hi, there has been so much progress you have not seen since it was moved to a dedicated site & forums:

 

http://www.kryoflux.com

 

http://forum.kryoflux.com

 

 

It's working fine so far with many 3", 3.5" and 5.25" drives. More drives are under investigation.

 

We currently do have support for FM, MFM (this includes IBM PC, Atari ST and many others, including many musical instruments), AmigaDOS, C64, many Apple formats and Emulator I+II from E-MU Systems. More formats will be added.

 

One key feature is the option to do forensic dumps regardless of the format, so even alien formats can be read and archived and then processed later.

 

The software, including a GUI, is available for Windows (and yes, we *do* support 64bit ) and Linux, with a Mac port in production. The software is completely free for private, non-commercial use = the community gets it for free. Pro-users need to get a commercial licence for it. These will help to fund further development.

 

Here's a quick overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEPo2pRGjY

 

Basic (older) schematics are included with the software, and we plan to release the current schematics (which do use bus drivers) with the next release.

 

We also have pre-built boards available, so you don't have to etch your own boards and start soldering. Many people that originally intended to built their own decided to go for a ready-made product when they saw the pitch used here (the components are *really* small).

 

Anyway, if you want a board, you can get them here: http://webstore.kryoflux.com/catalog

 

Cheers,

Chris

Edited December 31, 2010 by mr.vince