81 replies to this topic

[Pyromaniac605]

I will soon (hopefully) be a proud owner of a C64 and wanted to know some things about it.

1)Is there any region lockout system?
2)Is it easier to get games on Cassete, Cartridge or Floppy Disk?
3)Is it a pain to boot the games?
4)What uses for it are there other than games?

and also any other tips and info about it that is important.

-Darren-

[zylon]

Except for commons, Disks or tapes are cheapest but slower loading. Some upgrades can be bought to help it along like a FastLoad cart. Currently I use a program called The Filer for keeping track of my maintenance of my car fleet. Otherwise, it's mostly used for gaming.

[Pyromaniac605]

About how long are the load times for each type?

[Rybags]

Cartridge - instant.

Disk - if it has a fastloader, go make a coffee. If it doesn't, go make a coffee machine.

Tape - if it has a fastloader, go make some toast, if not, go out and buy some dinner.

[Pyromaniac605]

Rybags, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 7:23 AM, said:

Cartridge - instant.

Disk - if it has a fastloader, go make a coffee. If it doesn't, go make a coffee machine.

Tape - if it has a fastloader, go make some toast, if not, go out and buy some dinner.

seriously though i need aprrox. times or something funny though.

[98PaceCar]

Pyromaniac605, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 8:05 AM, said:

Rybags, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 7:23 AM, said:

Cartridge - instant.

Disk - if it has a fastloader, go make a coffee. If it doesn't, go make a coffee machine.

Tape - if it has a fastloader, go make some toast, if not, go out and buy some dinner.

seriously though i need aprrox. times or something funny though.

It all depends on the game. If you are looking for instant gratification, the 64 isn't for you. If you are willing to put up with load times, there are a lot of treasures to be found.

[Mirage]

All that's true of a stock C64, but just install the JiffyDOS chip in the main computer and then in the 1541 drive and it's night-and-day. Not so bad at all then. I mean, so much so, that I'm saying 100%, you HAVE to install those. It's easy assuming those chips are socketed, which in most cases, they are.

As for how easy it is to load stuff... it's pretty easy, you just have to learn a few commands like LOAD "*",8,1 and LOAD "$",8,1. Easy. BUT... again, JiffyDOS comes to the rescue. With that, you can just use your function keys for one-button access to all your common load and directory functions. Truly changes the whole experience.

I would skip the FastLoad and other similar carts and just get the JiffyDOS. Not sure where you can get them now, but if you sniff around, shouldn't be too hard to find. I'd buy 2 sets at the same time to have a spare, it's that important. Also, the JiffyDOS is far more compatible with software than any of the cart options are.

Load times with JiffyDOS, I'm thinking from memory here, but I'd say even most large games will load in under a minute... pretty quick. Without JiffyDOS... well, some of the bigger games can be 3-4 minutes, I don't know, I've never timed it, but the "go make a coffee machine" analogy is pretty accurate. You could at least mow the front lawn! Fortunately, JiffyDOS can be had pretty cheaply.

Other uses? Depends on how big of a geek you are I guess. You can do all sorts of things with it, but whether you'd want to or not is the question.

[JamesD]

Pyromaniac605, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 6:28 AM, said:

I will soon (hopefully) be a proud owner of a C64 and wanted to know some things about it.

1)Is there any region lockout system?
2)Is it easier to get games on Cassete, Cartridge or Floppy Disk?
3)Is it a pain to boot the games?
4)What uses for it are there other than games?

and also any other tips and info about it that is important.

-Darren-

1) No, but some games may be written specifically for NTSC or PAL and won't work on the other video standard.
2) There are more games on disk than the other so I'd say floppy.
3) The C64 has a weird DOS setup IMHO, but once you learn the commands you'll get through it.
JiffyDOS and most fast loaders make it a little simpler.
Carts are a plug it in and turn on the machine affair.
4) What uses are there for any old 8 bit? That's up to you.

As for loading times...
Cassette operates at 300 baud. Expect 5 minutes or more for a game of any size without a fastloader.
Disk is something like twice as fast as tape by default but if you have a fastloader or the game does it can load up to 20X faster (according to the Wiki). There was a recent discussion on tape/disk loading speeds and fastloaders. A fastloader was published in a magazine. You should be able to find info here:
http://www.atariage....-bit-computers/

[Reaperman]

is there a handy place with a list of basic c64 commands?

[Mirage]

Reaperman, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 11:55 AM, said:

is there a handy place with a list of basic c64 commands?

Sure, right here:

http://project64.c64.org/index.htm

Look for the 1541 User's Guide. Would help to look through the regular C64 User's Guide first if you've never used a C64 before.

[Pyromaniac605]

JamesD, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 11:44 AM, said:

Pyromaniac605, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 6:28 AM, said:

I will soon (hopefully) be a proud owner of a C64 and wanted to know some things about it.

1)Is there any region lockout system?
2)Is it easier to get games on Cassete, Cartridge or Floppy Disk?
3)Is it a pain to boot the games?
4)What uses for it are there other than games?

and also any other tips and info about it that is important.

-Darren-

1) No, but some games may be written specifically for NTSC or PAL and won't work on the other video standard.
2) There are more games on disk than the other so I'd say floppy.
3) The C64 has a weird DOS setup IMHO, but once you learn the commands you'll get through it.
JiffyDOS and most fast loaders make it a little simpler.
Carts are a plug it in and turn on the machine affair.
4) What uses are there for any old 8 bit? That's up to you.

As for loading times...
Cassette operates at 300 baud. Expect 5 minutes or more for a game of any size without a fastloader.
Disk is something like twice as fast as tape by default but if you have a fastloader or the game does it can load up to 20X faster (according to the Wiki). There was a recent discussion on tape/disk loading speeds and fastloaders. A fastloader was published in a magazine. You should be able to find info here:
http://www.atariage....-bit-computers/

1)Not a Problem my tv can switch between PAL,NTSC,SECAM and NTSC4 4.3
2)Cool but, can you use any floppy drive or do you need the right one?
3)Well im used to mounting and executing things using DOSbox is that any harder than that?
4)Well i really wanted it for the games and so my friends will see it a say "WTF is that ugly POS?". jk.
5)Lucky for me i have tons of stuff to do while i wait, like when im waiting for garrysmod to load (5-10 mins!) I just play something else.

[Mirage]

I answered most of that in post 7, but as for drives, you need to get a Commodore drive, or a compatible one. The most common by far is the 1541. There is also the 1541-II, and a bunch of third party drives. I would stick to just a 1541 which should be easy to find, but expensive to ship since they're large and heavy. Just in the US, it's cost me around $20 to ship just a 1541 alone. I would seriously recommend (again) doing some research on the alternatives I mentioned. I realize that you want the full experience of having a real disk drive and real floppies, and I don't blame you a bit for that, but you're going to have so many other options open to you, and all the software in the world available immediately if you get a Jim Brain 1541 substitute. Heck for the cost of just a 1541 and the shipping, you could get one of those and be all set... then get a real 1541 and real floppies later whenever you run across them cheap and local. If it's anything like in the US, you will run into them all the time. I still have at least a dozen of them even after giving away a ton of them over the past year. They're like belly buttons (everyone's got one).

Don't forget the JiffyDOS... absolutely essential, trust me.

[JamesD]

Pyromaniac605, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 5:17 PM, said:

1)Not a Problem my tv can switch between PAL,NTSC,SECAM and NTSC4 4.3

Yeah, but I don't know if the computer can.

Quote

2)Cool but, can you use any floppy drive or do you need the right one?

A 1541 or one of the new drive emulators that can host games on an SD card.
There are also some cables that let you attach a CBM drive to a PC to transfer files back and forth.

Quote

3)Well im used to mounting and executing things using DOSbox is that any harder than that?

You just need to memorize or write down the commands you can use.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Commodore_DOS

[Pyromaniac605]

JamesD, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 7:17 PM, said:

You just need to memorize or write down the commands you can use.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Commodore_DOS

Doesnt look to confusing should be able to fuigure it out with a bit of practice.
And why exactly is JiffyDOS absolutely needed? coz i can put up with load times and having to manualy boot cassetes/floppys.

[Pyromaniac605]

Anyone? why is JiffyDOS so important i can stand long load times and the way you have to boot the games.

-Darren-

[desiv]

Pyromaniac605, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 10:48 PM, said:

Anyone? why is JiffyDOS so important i can stand long load times and the way you have to boot the games.

It's not important or required.
It's just nice to have.

Personally, I don't have it. I didn't have it in the day, and I don't now because part of it is the retro feel.

:-)

If you plan on spending a LOT of time using the C64, you'd want it or at least a Fast Load cart. If you want some authentic retro-fun from time to time, you're OK without it.
If you want retro fun from time to time, but want instant load times and ease of use, get an emulator on your PC.

If the C64 were my main retro machine, I would probably get one.

desiv

[Pyromaniac605]

Then i prob wont get one coz i when i do use it i want it to feel authentic.

[Pyromaniac605]

Is this a good deal just over $20 (auction) for a C64, cassete player, 2 joysticks and 15 games? sounds good to me.

-Darren-

[Mirage]

Yeah, I agree you don't HAVE to have the JiffyDOS. I expected you wouldn't want to wait for the gruelling C64/1541 load times, and would want the convenience of one-key access to many of the main functions, but if you don't care about any of that, then obviously it's not essential. It's still "authentic" though, just not the authentic you'd have had early in the C64's life. Up to you. Just trying to hook you up with the hot tip in C64 usage. Most other computers didn't have to put up with such slow drive I/O. Try it without it for awhile, then decide. You'll just be able to play a lot more games in a much shorter period of time without it, that's all.

Yeah, $20 is fine for that. I don't know anything about Australia though, but if I wanted a C64 here in the US, I would have no problem with paying that price, if it's all decent and works.

[JamesD]

JiffyDOS installs inside the C64 and drives, so you have to open them up. That's it's biggest drawback.
You can buy an Epyx fastload cart off of Ebay for about $5 + S&H instead if you don't like that idea.
Or just get the fastloader from Compute I mentioned.
The latter is free. You load it off disk and then its resident in memory until something whacks it.

[Pyromaniac605]

Mirage, on Sun Mar 7, 2010 5:40 AM, said:

Yeah, I agree you don't HAVE to have the JiffyDOS. I expected you wouldn't want to wait for the gruelling C64/1541 load times, and would want the convenience of one-key access to many of the main functions, but if you don't care about any of that, then obviously it's not essential. It's still "authentic" though, just not the authentic you'd have had early in the C64's life. Up to you. Just trying to hook you up with the hot tip in C64 usage. Most other computers didn't have to put up with such slow drive I/O. Try it without it for awhile, then decide. You'll just be able to play a lot more games in a much shorter period of time without it, that's all.

Yeah, $20 is fine for that. I don't know anything about Australia though, but if I wanted a C64 here in the US, I would have no problem with paying that price, if it's all decent and works.

Well apart from a broken off 5 key it is alright and if i need the 5 key i can always but a keyboard forabout $10. And i play around a bit and if it really starts to get on my nerves i will probably get JiffyDOS.

-Darren-

[Mirage]

I agree with JamesD's device. All of my advice was assuming you wanted the best in compatibility and real-world usage, but if that's not what you're after, then it's not.

Just remember, if you try out the FastLoad cart or the Compute fastloader, that the JiffyDOS is much more compatible with more software, so if you run into issues with compatibility with those solutions, you won't have that nearly so much with the Jiffy solution. But I absolutely agree with trying those out first... maybe you'll be fine with just one of those.

Another advantage to just getting the C64/1541 first is that you can open them up (I always assume people are willing to do this, maybe not everyone is) and see if the chips you need to replace are indeed socketed. That detail may change your mind to install or to not install right there.

Start out slow, just get the basics (C64/1541) then after using them for awhile, see what you want to do. At least now you know some of the things that are available to you.

[JamesD]

The Epyx cart is compatible with upwards of 85% of titles if I remember right.
The Compute one is really good for people that work with BASIC and should work with some games.
Anything that isn't compatible with these can still be loaded with normal DOS... you'd just have to wait.

[Mirage]

85% may have been about right, I don't remember. All I remember is having to shut it off quite frequently. JiffyDOS is a lot more compatible than that, and I rarely ever have to disable it. But that's correct, just use the FastLoad cart for when you can, and disable it when you can't. It's a great product that I used all the time, until I moved to the Mach cart that I liked a little better but only because it has a reset button built in, then eventually I moved to JiffyDOS. They're all good solutions for sure.

By the way, the Epyx Fast Load cart (or any of them) will give you the useful shortcuts for loading etc just like JiffyDOS will. All the fast load carts that I've used will do that, so it's not really a consideration. Back in the day, the Epyx FastLoad cart was what most of us used, and we did great with it, fantastic product. Now, I think the JiffyDOS is better, but if we didn't have that, we'd be perfectly happy with the ol' Epyx FastLoad!

[Pyromaniac605]

98PaceCar, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 11:29 AM, said:

Pyromaniac605, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 8:05 AM, said:

Rybags, on Sat Mar 6, 2010 7:23 AM, said:

Cartridge - instant.

Disk - if it has a fastloader, go make a coffee. If it doesn't, go make a coffee machine.

Tape - if it has a fastloader, go make some toast, if not, go out and buy some dinner.

seriously though i need aprrox. times or something funny though.

It all depends on the game. If you are looking for instant gratification, the 64 isn't for you. If you are willing to put up with load times, there are a lot of treasures to be found.

I think i can i've heard the C64 port of Maniac MAnsion is good, true?
Off TOpic: YOur avatar is the best! Doctor "Tron" Tran. wow thats a mouthful to say.

-Darren-