44 replies to this topic

[cashcow06]

I have a krokodile cart and was wondering if there is any advantage of getting a Harmony cart as well. Is one better than the other or are they both equally good. I have also heard talk of a 7800 version of the Harmony which I would buy since my Krokodile cart is not compatable with 7800 games. Any thoughts or comments are welcome and appreciated.

[Shawn Sr.]

The Krock is a stoneage product compaired to the Harmony.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Shawn Sr., on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:28 PM, said:

The Krock is a stoneage product compaired to the Harmony.

So what? The Atari 2600 is also a stone age product compared to actual hardware. But does it matter?

[Zoyx]

Krok is programmed via an app
Harmony is programmed by moving rom files onto an SD card. You can organize the directory structure the way you want it.

Krok uses a legacy serial cable
Harmony uses an SD card with SD reader/writer.

Krok pre-programmed with one type of Rom at a time.
Harmony you can mix-up Rom types. Auto-detects the type when the Rom is selected.

Krok has limited storage (127 4k or smaller games, 63 8k games, or 31 16k games)
Every known rom file can be stored on a 1 GB SD card.

[Wickeycolumbus]

Each can do something the other can't, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. For most users, the Harmony would be better.

[Zoyx]

Wickeycolumbus, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:41 PM, said:

Each can do something the other can't, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. For most users, the Harmony would be better.

What can the Krok do that the Harmony can't?

[Wickeycolumbus]

Zoyx, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:42 PM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:41 PM, said:

Each can do something the other can't, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. For most users, the Harmony would be better.

What can the Krok do that the Harmony can't?

The Krok supports up to 512K ROM and 32K RAM for a single game while the harmony only supports 32K ROM and ~8K RAM. If you want to run or develop really big demos/games, the Krok would be better.

[batari]

Wickeycolumbus, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:45 PM, said:

Zoyx, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:42 PM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:41 PM, said:

Each can do something the other can't, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. For most users, the Harmony would be better.

What can the Krok do that the Harmony can't?

The Krok supports up to 512K ROM and 32K RAM for a single game while the harmony only supports 32K ROM and ~8K RAM. If you want to run or develop really big demos/games, the Krok would be better.

That is debatable. The Krok does support 3E and 3F up to 512k/32k of immediately-accessible space, but suitable hardware doesn't exist (aside from Melody derivatives that can do 128k/64k) that can do that if you actually want to sell your work at a reasonable cost.

However, if you don't need instant access (such as for loading levels or massive Supercharger multiloads) then in theory, Harmony could be programmed to use the 512k EEPROM (of which around 400k is free.) We intend to work on this at some point.

Also, Melody can be built with a 4 MB EEPROM chip.

[accousticguitar]

(Expanding on one point Zoyx made) The Harmony is a true multicart. With the Krok cart you are limited to only 1 bankswitching type at a time but the Harmony can have them all at once. So you can basically put every rom ever made on the SD card and never have to change it again, though if you want to add a new rom from time to time it isn't difficult.

[Nathan Strum]

I've got both, and sorry to say, since I've had the Harmony, I rarely use the Krokodile. It's just not as convenient. (Although now that there's a GUI-based OS X app for it, the Krok cart is a lot easier to use than it was.)

Besides all of the points mentioned, the Krok cart requires a power adapter for programming it, the Harmony doesn't. The Krok's firmware (as far as I know) isn't user-upgradeable. The Harmony supports more bankswitching schemes. Plus, the Harmony cart fits better into my 2600. The Krok cart is such a snug fit I'm always a little hesitant using it.

That said, it has been handy to have the Krok cart around for testing ROMs that the Harmony has issues with. However, most of those have since been sorted out through various updates.

I'll say this though... the labels on both of them are awesome.

Edited by Nathan Strum, Tue Mar 9, 2010 7:44 PM.

[cashcow06]

Thank you for all of your comments. I think I will hold off until the 7800 Harmony is ready.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

cashcow06, on Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:49 PM, said:

Thank you for all of your comments. I think I will hold off until the 7800 Harmony is ready.

That may take forever.

[cd-w]

cashcow06, on Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:49 PM, said:

Thank you for all of your comments. I think I will hold off until the 7800 Harmony is ready.

Development hasn't yet started on the Harmony 7800, and it may never happen. Even if it does, it will only work on the 7800, so you will still want a regular Harmony to play games on a 2600.

Chris

[seanhq]

The Harmony cartridge is really worth getting. I would highly recommend getting one. Who knows, at some point they might stop making/selling them or the price might go up, then you'll be kicking yourself in the butt for not picking one up at a lower price or while still available.

[Shawn Sr.]

batari, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 5:45 PM, said:

Also, Melody can be built with a 4 MB EEPROM chip.

PWND!

[SpiceWare]

Um, I think he means he's sticking with his Krok Cart for his 2600.

[cashcow06]

I would buy a Harmony cart but I only acquired the Krok cart last year for $200 and my wife wouldn't be very happy if I shelved it this soon.

[cashcow06]

Very excited I just purchased a Harmony cart. Sold off my Sean Kelly Multicart and used the proceeds to purchase the Harmony. My Krok will be up for sale soon enough if anyone is interested.

[SekOner]

cashcow06, on Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:39 PM, said:

Very excited I just purchased a Harmony cart. Sold off my Sean Kelly Multicart and used the proceeds to purchase the Harmony. My Krok will be up for sale soon enough if anyone is interested.

How much were you looking to get for your Krok Cart. and that's assuming that you haven't already sold it.

[Gregory DG]

Whew. Glad I've got a Cuttle Cart 2.

<runs>

[Andrew Davie]

Zoyx, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:42 PM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Tue Mar 9, 2010 4:41 PM, said:

Each can do something the other can't, it's a matter of what you want to do with it. For most users, the Harmony would be better.

What can the Krok do that the Harmony can't?

... play Boulder Dash®

[sermajic]

Gregory DG, on Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:42 PM, said:

Whew. Glad I've got a Cuttle Cart 2.

<runs>

That's the point, get a few Harmony carts before they're gone like CC2...
Not a perfect product at all though

[wood_jl]

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:59 AM, said:

That's the point, get a few Harmony carts before they're gone like CC2...
Not a perfect product at all though

Bullshit. I think it's perfect. Make a better one.

[Random Terrain]

I still don't understand why the Harmony cart is crap if it won't play a Boulder Dash demo. I doubt that the full game is going to be released to the public as a .bin file. If you want to play Boulder Dash, you'll have to buy the Boulder Dash cartridge.

Most games already work with the Harmony cart and most new homebrew games made by assembly language programmers and batari Basic users will work with the Harmony cart.

On top of everything, the Harmony cart is much easier to use than the Krokodile cart.

[maiki]

On the other hand, if Harmony Cartridge is the ultimate cartridge that should replace the piles of carts to have them all in one box, then, one day it should play Boulder Dash as well... otherwise why bother with games like Fatal Run...