44 replies to this topic

[Random Terrain]

maiki, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:37 AM, said:

. . . otherwise why bother with games like Fatal Run...

Are you saying that Fatal Run doesn't work on the Harmony cartridge? I just tried it and it seems to be working.

[wood_jl]

maiki, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:37 AM, said:

On the other hand, if Harmony Cartridge is the ultimate cartridge that should replace the piles of carts to have them all in one box, then, one day it should play Boulder Dash as well... otherwise why bother with games like Fatal Run...

Even if it didn't play Boulderdash, it still replaces piles of carts. What are you saying? In order to replace piles of carts, it MUST play Boulderdash? If it replaces a pile of carts but doesn't play Boulderdash, then it really doesn't replace a pile of carts? It's a requirement to play Boulderdash in order to replace a pile of carts? What a bunch of nonsense.

You guys should go buy a Boulderdash cart, don't buy a Harmony cart (if you don't have one), sell your Harmony cart (cheap, if you have one, since you think it sucks) to somebody who can appreciate it, buy a pile of carts that the Harmony was taking the place of, design your own superior-to-Harmony-cart, or any combination of the above. Sorry, if not everyone is going to agree with your narrow assessment of the Harmony. I think it rocks, I couldn't have asked for more at the price, and I don't give a SHIT about Boulderdash. I can't stand to see spoiled children "dis" on something that TOTALLY ROCKS (given price) without a mild remonstration.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Easy guys, please. The Harmony cart was designed to play all known games at a reasonable price. Tomorrow someone can publish a homebrew which requires 64k of RAM. What if Harmony would only support up to 32k? Any hardware that is optimized for the existing market (incl. costs!) has to fail somewhere eventually.

[eshu]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:34 PM, said:

The Harmony cart was designed to play all known games at a reasonable price.

Don't get me wrong I love my harmony cart - but for completeness sake it doesn't run the Megaboy cart or Stella's stocking (though one presumes that could be split to work quite easily)....

[batari]

The Harmony could probably play BD if Andrew was willing to use Harmony's hardware support (such as DPC+) for graphical features instead of just using a bunch of RAM as he did. BD was created well before the Harmony was ever conceived, and gobs of RAM was probably the only way to do it at the time. I inquired years ago and he wasen't interested in putting out the considerable effort needed to convert the bankswitching since the game was very nearly done even years ago.

I also suggested that since (as I understand) there is some redundancy in the RAM, it might be possible to use a combination of the RAM the Harmony has and a bit of hardware support to get it working. Andrew said that he liked that the game worked without any special hardware support (save for the RAM, of course) as this could be seen as somewhat of a programming challenge.

Harmony was never intended to play every possible game and was never conceived as the "ultimate" cart that would play absolutely any game you could throw at it. Good engineering requires design compromises to keep the cost low without sacrificing too much capability. As such, Harmony is cheaper than any 2600 multicart ever has been while still being overall more capable than any.

[sermajic]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:34 PM, said:

Easy guys, please. The Harmony cart was designed to play all known games at a reasonable price. Tomorrow someone can publish a homebrew which requires 64k of RAM. What if Harmony would only support up to 32k? Any hardware that is optimized for the existing market (incl. costs!) has to fail somewhere eventually.

Are we talking about 32k?!!? 64k?!!? This is 2011 for christ sake!!

[sermajic]

And no, i don't need to start a competing company to state a product has flaws,
And they could be avoided ...

Still think Batari rocks though!!

[roland p]

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:17 PM, said:

Are we talking about 32k?!!? 64k?!!? This is 2011 for christ sake!!

The harmony uses a microcontroller probably because:
- They are cheap.
- They are just fast enough to simulate cartridge hardware.
- They are reconfigurable.

Microcontrollers have restrictions too, they are little chips that contain a full blown arm microprocessor, some ram, some rom, all on a single chip. If you put more ram on them, they will grow, they get bigger (=more expensive board) and they get more expensive.

And every hardware design is a compromise (just like our beloved atari 2600!). I think Batari made an excellent compromise by taking the cheapest (I think) microcontroller that could do the trick, and making it work for most of the games, and more (DPC+).

Edited by roland p, Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:38 PM.

[batari]

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:17 PM, said:

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:34 PM, said:

Easy guys, please. The Harmony cart was designed to play all known games at a reasonable price. Tomorrow someone can publish a homebrew which requires 64k of RAM. What if Harmony would only support up to 32k? Any hardware that is optimized for the existing market (incl. costs!) has to fail somewhere eventually.

Are we talking about 32k?!!? 64k?!!? This is 2011 for christ sake!!

Harmony doesn't use conventional flash and RAM, so the argument is irrelevant. It uses the internal flash and RAM inside an MCU, and MCUs that were fast, cheap and had enough flash have only come on the market in the past few years.

It is the ability to use this single chip for most of Harmony's functions instead of multiple chips is what makes it possible to bring you a flashcart with Harmony's low cost and good capabilities.

[wood_jl]

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:17 PM, said:

Are we talking about 32k?!!? 64k?!!? This is 2011 for christ sake!!

Indeed, and we're also talking about Atari 2600. It's 2011; go buy an Xbox 360.

[sermajic]

wood_jl, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:48 PM, said:

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:17 PM, said:

Are we talking about 32k?!!? 64k?!!? This is 2011 for christ sake!!

Indeed, and we're also talking about Atari 2600. It's 2011; go buy an Xbox 360.

had the 360 for about 6 years now,
and enjoying it a lot - boulderdash retro online ,just released ! -

does that make me less hardcore than you?

but

Harmony was not launched 30 years ago when kbs meant lots of money...

Edited by sermajic, Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:29 PM.

[Amstari]

The Boulder Dash Demo is the first ROM I've had that didn't work with the Harmony Cart. So I cant understand how anyone can be disappointed that one game doesn't work when there are hundreds that do work. To me the Harmony is the "ultimate" cart.

I think the fact that the Boulder Dash demo doesn't work on the Harmony Cart makes the game even more special. I hope that it does make it onto a cart one day. It's slogan should be "The game that is so awesome it wont even play on the Harmony cart!"

[maiki]

This reminds me of that game Pier Solar for Sega Genesis that cannot be run on Everdrive cartridge because it is too big. But the fact is, Pier Solar is both not my cup of tea (RPG? ugh!) and a poor game generally, whereas Boulder Dash is a big hit. As for your slogan, if from now the developers take it seriously, you will end up with an empty Harmony cart and pile of standard carts like before...

Edited by maiki, Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:42 PM.

[Random Terrain]

maiki, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:39 PM, said:

As for your slogan, if from now the developers take it seriously, you will end up with an empty Harmony cart and pile of standard carts like before...

I don't think that will happen. Remember, we only have about a year and a half before everything changes. How many games can be released in a year and a half by homebrewers? Enjoy the games you already have while you still have time to play them and don't worry about the future. In the near future, you're either dead, shaking hands with evil aliens who are pretending to be good, or evolving into another life form that can levitate and travel anywhere in the multiverse at the speed of thought.

[wood_jl]

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:20 PM, said:

wood_jl, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:48 PM, said:

sermajic, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:17 PM, said:

Are we talking about 32k?!!? 64k?!!? This is 2011 for christ sake!!

Indeed, and we're also talking about Atari 2600. It's 2011; go buy an Xbox 360.

had the 360 for about 6 years now,
and enjoying it a lot - boulderdash retro online ,just released ! -

does that make me less hardcore than you?

but

Harmony was not launched 30 years ago when kbs meant lots of money...

maiki, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:39 PM, said:

if from now the developers take it seriously, you will end up with an empty Harmony cart and pile of standard carts like before...

I'm just amazed at all this complaining about a totally awesome product like the Harmony cart. I just got mine earlier this year, and I am still all smiles and giggles with the thing, for what it does, the price that it does it at, how professional it turned out.

So there's a homebrew or two that are many times the size that the A2600 games were supposed to be, and constant pissing and moaning because a couple of come-lately huge games won't work. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Look, there's no reasoning with spoiled kids who have no appreciation for anything, but it is FACT that the Harmony works better than any previous flashcart for the 2600, and is WAY cheaper.

SERIOUSLY, rather than bitching, why not design or commission the design and manufacture of a better one? Really, why don't you? You're so full of criticism, that surely you can do this, eh? If you're trying to convince people at AtariAge that the Harmony cart doesn't kick ass, you may as well just give up. It's the best flashcart there is, for the least money, PERIOD. (The fact that a couple of spoiled kids are crying does nothing to change that fact)

[GroovyBee]

Wow! Trolling people doing things for long dead systems seems to be the latest fashion on AA. Its a sure fire way of making people lose interest in their projects and move onto other things where they don't have to take any crap.

[Random Terrain]

GroovyBee, on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:12 AM, said:

Wow! Trolling people doing things for long dead systems seems to be the latest fashion on AA. Its a sure fire way of making people lose interest in their projects and move onto other things where they don't have to take any crap.

Where can you go on the Internet where you don't have to take any crap? The internet is like a field full of landmines. Your virtual legs are going to get blown off no matter what you do, so do what you want. Remember, they're only virtual legs, so just grow back a new pair.

[Schizophretard]

The way I see it is that the purpose of the Harmony Cart was to put all the classics in one cart. Therefore, a classic gamer only needs to play one cart and a classic collector never has to play a classic cart again. Everything else it supports and does are bonuses. If you want more bonuses then help Batari sell as many Harmony Carts as possible so he can invent more bonuses.

[Amstari]

Random Terrain, on Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:20 AM, said:

maiki, on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:39 PM, said:

As for your slogan, if from now the developers take it seriously, you will end up with an empty Harmony cart and pile of standard carts like before...

I don't think that will happen. Remember, we only have about a year and a half before everything changes. How many games can be released in a year and a half by homebrewers? Enjoy the games you already have while you still have time to play them and don't worry about the future. In the near future, you're either dead, shaking hands with evil aliens who are pretending to be good, or evolving into another life form that can levitate and travel anywhere in the multiverse at the speed of thought.

Evil aliens... RT that is just crazy. The zombies will eat everyone before the aliens arrive.

[chupathingy]

I don't know about all this complaining about kilobytes and bankswitching, Krokos and Cuttles, I just wanna play Marble Craze and Communist Mutants From Space.

Harmony is affordable, reliable due to being brand new, and doesn't require any special hardware or voodoo magic to get the thing running. I'm sure I'll be happy with it.

That's my $0.02 anyways.