102 replies to this topic

[Tempest]

I think Tycho summed it up best today on Penny Arcade:

Quote

God, I hate these fucking people. I don't give a shit what happens to Sulky, Twat, Twit, Pip, and Marm. Sometimes, I kill them on purpose.

Sounds about right.

Tempest

[Chris Leach]

Tempest, on Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:24 PM, said:

I think Tycho summed it up best today on Penny Arcade:

Quote

God, I hate these fucking people. I don't give a shit what happens to Sulky, Twat, Twit, Pip, and Marm. Sometimes, I kill them on purpose.

Sounds about right.

Tempest

Amazing...just Amazing!

[potatohead]

If a player does the stuff they are supposed to do, along with entertaining the few nice level up opportunities there are, 20 hours in = linear grind, though one does get to pick their team, instead of just rolling with what the game does give out.

Holding at 2 stars...

[Tempest]

I'm only about 4 hours in and so far the game isn't too bad, it's just dull. The story is confusing so far (not a surprise though, most FF games start out in the middle and fill in the beginning later on), and the game is super easy. I just hit auto and let the computer do most of the work. Even the first 'boss fight' was laughable as I didn't get hit once. I assume it gets harder, but with no exploring to do and little in the way of battle decision making (other than the Paradigm Shift which really isn't that interesting), it's almost as if this is FF Lite. Maybe they were making up for FF XII's massively open and difficult world with a linear and easy one?

Tempest

[doubleminor]

Buddy of mine bought the game and finally gets to free roam 45 hours in. That's a total play time for other FF games.

I haven't completed a FF game since 7. However, I did play FFXI (MMO) for almost 5 years.

[potatohead]

It does get considerably harder. More planning is needed for later battles, and it's very important to understand what all the roles are, which characters have developed which ones, and how to balance those.

One decision Mrs Potatohead made was to develop most roles for most characters. The cost of that is more level up time needed and not many interesting places to do it, and more marginal battles, where a loss is a real possibility, unless the battle is executed very well.

For me, this game makes me really miss 12, which was really great to get through, and just as great for many hours afterword filling out rare item and monster quests.

So far, it's my opinion this game will have a rather low replay value. Lots to do yet, so there is time, but.... I grow jaded.

[Tempest]

So what are the best roles to develop? I'd rather not go through the hassle of developing useless roles (like Saboteur).

One thing I liked about FF XII was that you could get some very powerful weapons and armor early on in the game if you were willing to work at it (mob hunting and trading things). You could also go explore areas way in advance even if you couldn't do much there at the time (and you could also get your ass kicked). FF XIII just seems so 'guided'. You're told exactly where to go, and aren't given much chances to deviate.

FF XII will always be my favorite, followed by VIII (yeah I know, not a popular choice), and X (the last 'old school' FF).

Tempest

[potatohead]

Actually saboteur is useful!! We thought the exact same thing you did, and have come to realize that all of them will need to be developed for a top battle performance score. Some bosses are very difficult, if this role is missing, because their protects keep you from staggering them, making for a long, onerous battle.

The trick to this one is understanding that the player really only has direct control over the lead used in battle. This impacts a lot of things, like summoning or not, for example.

Another trick is understanding which characters advance in the roles more favorably. Hope, for example, doesn't make for a warrior on physical attacks, but does for magic. He's good for the medic, or saboteur role, which are both supporting and empowering roles.

The de-shell, de-protect, etc... are most often triggered by the role being selected in the paradigm, not something under direct control like it was in many of the other games. You will want this, but only at specific times and with specific enemies, whose profile indicates they would fall prey to that particular role, in an appropriate paradigm.

They have moved the battle system up a notch to where you are a director / planner, only taking detail control over the lead. Many of the enemies can be defeated with a straightforward set of roles, well developed. No question. If you want the 5 star battles, using all the roles, in paradigms that are well selected for the enemy and your understanding of it's behavior, requires developing all of them well, then using them in a strategic way to quickly stagger, then do serious damage on an enemy, while not taking a lot yourself.

We find the game rather boring in the initial stages. Sounds like about 40 hours in is a roam, so we are damn close...

But, the battle planning, paradigms, roles, etc... are actually a lot of fun. Big battles, with some complexity don't require anywhere near the raw button mashing they often take, and still are challenging at the strategy level.

You and I agree on 7 and 12, and are in the minority on it. I do like a lot about 11 too, even though it's a tighter ship overall.

Anyway, this one has a lot of strategic elements, and I think that's the focus of the game over exploration and work. Some things must be dealt with on that level, as they make it painful to just level up to the point where they can be ignored...

Edited by potatohead, Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:30 PM.

[Tempest]

I loved 11 before I quit due to time constraints and several flaws in the system (looking forward to 14), that's why I liked 12. It seemed like a single player version of 11.

Tempest

[Taskmaster99]

I am about 6 to 7 hours into it right now. For the past 2 days i have been playing Battlefield:Bad Company 2. This never happens to me in a Final Fantasy game. Usually i play and play and play for days,weeks,hours on end.

Like i said.....Im 6 to 7 hours into it and have been playing Battlefield:Bad Company 2 for the past 2 days. Hmmmm.....is something wrong here??

[potatohead]

It just opened up. Hell of nut to crack before you can roam.

Get cracking!!

Edit: Pretty big place. Lots of (hard) baddies, just FYI.

Edited by potatohead, Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:29 PM.

[Chris Leach]

10 hours in and I have my abilities maxed with Lighting and Babe the Boywonder......
Can't seem to defeat this baddie in front of me. The online help suggests....loading up on heal and bulking powers then switching to mass attack, stunning the character and hitting it with ice or what ever dual casting spells will be his weekness as his weekness changes..?

I can't stand this guessing game as to what to do to just fight a mini boss....I want to hack at it and if I'm not stong enough move on and fight some other stuff....

Any suggestions???

[potatohead]

Hacking at it won't get you all that much in this game, and there isn't a lot of moving on at first either. You can go back, using some of the creatures you saw before to level up. Sometimes it's pretty limited.

Investigate your paradigms, and make sure you have a few of them. Include diversity, Cerberus, Relentless Assault in your set, along with whatever other ones you think might work well.

The whole key to these baddies is staggering them. It's all about watching that stagger percentage bar in the right, looking for what KIND of attack boosts it the most. Sometimes, the actual damage shown will be small, but that stagger bar will rise quickly! That's what you want, because the real damage occurs during the stagger time, particularly when a character launches the enemy up in the air.

So you start out using the Diversity paradigm, switching attacks to see what does what, sometimes switching to Cerberus to utilize other attacks, until it staggers, keeping an eye on your medic and lead party member, who should not be the same person!

When it happens, hammer it with the relentless assault, until the stagger period is nearly at an end, switch back to diversity, wash, rinse, repeat. If you have a technique available, now is a great time to do it.

Also, be sure you are not trying to get a summon creature to yield. That's a different kind of battle altogether, and the first one you face is the Shivas with the motorcycle. If you are doing that, you need to show a diversity of offensive and defensive attacks for it to yield. You will know when you get one of these, because the first thing that happens is your lead character gets doomed. If there is no death counter, it's just a mini-boss, and you've got to work on your battle strategy, making really good use of the equipment, upgrades available, and paradigms.

[hex65000]

Hate to say it, but based on the comments concerning this game has relegated it to the "wait to find it on sale" category. If I'm not at least a little sucked in after an hour, something is wrong. I'm playing Eternal Sonata right now on XBox360 and I'm intrigued by the direction things are going. I told a friend of mine that I had just started it after I noticed he had a "Polka" faceplate on his console, he said I was in for a pretty good ride with the game. Not SMTensi wild, but that other than the combat quirks and linearity it was a good game. I look forward to playing through it now. I've logged a little over an hour and have just met four characters and completed the prologue chapter.

I'll play FF three on my DS instead.

FF 13: Pass until I spot it on sale.

Hex.
[ Doesn't recall being an RPG connoisseur, but I know what I like. ]

[shadow460]

It seems that when a new FF comes out I'm still playing at some other RPG. I haven't even looked for 13 yet.

As for opinions, well...

FF5, good, but not quite enough to hook me.
FF7, Trite save the world storyline (at first), turns excellent later on. I think if there's a model FF, this is it.
FF8, Complex and challenging, different focus in the story. My personal favorite, especially with the portable game.
FF10, OK, this is where the storylines start to fade. The battle system is solid but too forgiving.
FFX-2, High school remix of FFX with a hint of soft core porn (almost).
FFXII, Feels like a multiplayer game, however, the gambit system can be really aggravating. To heck with the license board--it sucks. I finished it about 30% of the way in...with all six characters. Plus it seems some of the stuff is so well hidden there's no way you'd find it without a guide. The "life sized" areas take far too long to map out. This is balanced by the open ended character development and a story that keeps me wanting to know more
Crisis Core: WAY too difficult. Takes the irritating aspect of FF12 and magnifies them. Great sotry, but it feels more like a rite of passage playing CC just to learn what leads up to FF7. IMO, Hard Mode should only be accessible after completing the game in normal mode...along with the New Game + option.
FF Tactics: Interesting game, but I don't have time for 90 minute battles.

Other Square games:
Sa Ga 1: Great game, storyline makes you wonder what's on the next floor.
Sa Ga 2: Weaker storyline, plus some areas drag a bit. I was overwhelmed at first by the idea of finding 88 magi instead of just 13 parts of a ship. Has some decent plot twists.
Sa Ga 3: Seems like Square took a great story and deliberately added some cheesy elements to it. Some of the dungeons drag a bit. Great effects, IMO, even on the Game Boy!
Unlimited Saga: I haven't played this much, but it's definitely the most unique RPG I have ever picked up.

I own FF9 and FF11 but I haven't played them yet.

[Ninjabba]

shadow460, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:15 PM, said:

It seems that when a new FF comes out I'm still playing at some other RPG. I haven't even looked for 13 yet.

As for opinions, well...

FF5, good, but not quite enough to hook me.
FF7, Trite save the world storyline (at first), turns excellent later on. I think if there's a model FF, this is it.
FF8, Complex and challenging, different focus in the story. My personal favorite, especially with the portable game.
FF10, OK, this is where the storylines start to fade. The battle system is solid but too forgiving.
FFX-2, High school remix of FFX with a hint of soft core porn (almost).
FFXII, Feels like a multiplayer game, however, the gambit system can be really aggravating. To heck with the license board--it sucks. I finished it about 30% of the way in...with all six characters. Plus it seems some of the stuff is so well hidden there's no way you'd find it without a guide. The "life sized" areas take far too long to map out. This is balanced by the open ended character development and a story that keeps me wanting to know more
Crisis Core: WAY too difficult. Takes the irritating aspect of FF12 and magnifies them. Great sotry, but it feels more like a rite of passage playing CC just to learn what leads up to FF7. IMO, Hard Mode should only be accessible after completing the game in normal mode...along with the New Game + option.
FF Tactics: Interesting game, but I don't have time for 90 minute battles.

Other Square games:
Sa Ga 1: Great game, storyline makes you wonder what's on the next floor.
Sa Ga 2: Weaker storyline, plus some areas drag a bit. I was overwhelmed at first by the idea of finding 88 magi instead of just 13 parts of a ship. Has some decent plot twists.
Sa Ga 3: Seems like Square took a great story and deliberately added some cheesy elements to it. Some of the dungeons drag a bit. Great effects, IMO, even on the Game Boy!
Unlimited Saga: I haven't played this much, but it's definitely the most unique RPG I have ever picked up.

I own FF9 and FF11 but I haven't played them yet.

I see you haven't listed FF's greatest episode, number 6

[shadow460]

That's because I have never played it. I have missed FF 1 to 4, 6, 9, and 13. On the Sa Ga side, I've missed all four PS1 titles.

[Ninjabba]

http://www.escapistm...al-Fantasy-XIII

another soul sharing similar thoughts.. ghehehe. Ok, I get the main idea and won't bother with the game any more

[potatohead]

We've reached the point where the game is mostly open.

I think I'll leave it at 2.5 out of 5. The ramp up is tough. Once done though, the game has some great elements and options. It's enjoyable now, but a tough grind to get there.

Honestly, the cut-scenes are a love hate. On one hand, they place them in an aggravating way on the grind up. On the other, they are very well done!! I enjoy that kind of thing, so it's a net gain, but I think a lot of people will not see a net gain.

Edited by potatohead, Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:14 PM.

[Chris Leach]

Ok...15 hours in I'm at another baddie that loves to kill me..? I maxed up some of my weapons...I guess its time to kill some soldiers and level up a bit more before J(ass) can kill this big flmae thingy.....

Nice to know I have given it some more time, but My overall opinion...


"Why can't I talk to the people in any of the gathering places?"

[potatohead]

Yeah, I miss talking to the people, to pick up story elements. On this one, they chose to not incorporate that, and publish the story to you in bits, as you progress...


If you double that time, you reach a very solid spot where you can roam and go do stuff. The baddies range from easy to seriously difficult!! Some battles may take considerable time, unless you've done your planning. That seems to be a key element of this game. There is a significant strategy element, and also the need to utilize all the roles at times. There are no useless ones, just different baddies, needing different approaches.

(they could have made the ethersol a bit more available too)

[johnon]

My opinions on FFXIII after only 6 hours of play and not being sure I can finish the game:

- Cool opening cutscene. Makes it seem badass...then it throws you into the most linear RPG ever.

- The characters are terrible. In fact, I rely on Sazh to make up for everyone else.
- I never want to hear the word "hero" again. Snow, Gadot, and the gang gave me the worst first impression ever. They're just flat
out annoying.
- Hope can never get out what he needs to say, even when he could die. Really?! I think if I thought I was gonna die, even in the
face of death, I could still stop and tell everyone what I needed to.
- Lightning is the most stuck up main character I've ever seen. Even more so than Rush from The Last Remnant. Not to mention the fact
that Snow is willing to tell her off seriously detracts from the badassness.
- Vanille...sheesh, where do I start? She's hyperactive, she pushes Hope into bad situations, she sees the positive in getting
attacked by the guards of the fal'Cie...and it just goes on.
- Sazh is actually kind of cool. At least he's funny. Every now and then, the writers gave him a crap line, but not usually.

- The combat is fast-paced...and boring as hell. 35 second battles on average, and unavoidable battles make it not worth playing.

- The tactics are so simple. Just go Medic and Synergist combo, then all Ravagers and repeat and it'll beat pretty much anything.

- Hardly worth adventuring. You're lucky if there's anything but the beaten path.

- So many sounds from every character. Do they really have to sigh that much?

I think I'll stop my criticism there...

[Karyyk]

Ninjabba, on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:27 AM, said:

I played FF1 to FF12 in the past, and was really looking forward to the next-gen episode coming out on the PS3. So I played it at a friends place last night... but after 3 hours or so there still was not a single challenge to be found in this game. Battle system so far seems to be boring.. it barely feels like being in control. The leveling systems is non-existent which is one of the weirdest designer choices of the last decade, because it doesn't feel rewarding to jump into all those battles. No open world. A story which after 3 hours did not manage to catch our interest because of the flaws stated before. We both felt betrayed after waiting for so long for this game. But since I don't own a ps3 and I won't be playing this game, I do am curious where to find the interesting parts of this game. What are your thoughts?

That's kind of how I felt about XII to be honest. The changes made were too extreme for it to feel like the same series (that best Final Fantasy game of this generation is Lost Odyssey). I gave it a chance once it hit the $20 mark, but I just couldn't get into it (it felt like a single-player MMO). At this point I've got no plans on purchasing XIII. Aside from the battle system being something that rubs me the wrong ways, the characters in the game just seem...annoying.

Edited by Karyyk, Fri Apr 2, 2010 11:33 PM.

[Ninjabba]

johnon, on Fri Apr 2, 2010 10:01 PM, said:

- So many sounds from every character. Do they really have to sigh that much?

That was one of my biggest issues even... watching all those cut-scenes with all the pointless sighing made my ears bleed at some point. I know its typical for anime to do this (which I hate), but to think of how many voice actors had to this (at least Japanese, English and German)... its not worth any amount of developing time/money...

Karyyk, on Fri Apr 2, 2010 11:31 PM, said:

That's kind of how I felt about XII to be honest. The changes made were too extreme for it to feel like the same series (that best Final Fantasy game of this generation is Lost Odyssey). I gave it a chance once it hit the $20 mark, but I just couldn't get into it (it felt like a single-player MMO). At this point I've got no plans on purchasing XIII. Aside from the battle system being something that rubs me the wrong ways, the characters in the game just seem...annoying.

I agree that the battle system of FF12 is kind of annoying as it looks like the game plays itself at times.. but the rest of the game on the other hand is great. For me the story/world seem to be better than other episodes in the series and the sidequest is Huge. I guess its the Ivalice universe that makes it attractive for me.

[Gabriel]

I'm about to start a marathon session for the day. I played several hours last night. I'm somewhere around 13 hours in.

Something about the game is hooking me in. I can't identify it. I could easily start up a new Xenosaga III game, play Resonance of Fate, or get back to Cross Edge, but I find myself drawn to FF13 for some mysterious reason.

I like the characters. Hope has quit being Shinji Ikari and has spontaneously sprouted some balls. Lighting is becoming a bit softer instead of being the hyper-bitch, but I knew that was coming anyway. I have no problems with Snow or Vanille, as they're the two most enjoyable characters. Sazh is generally OK, and I suprisingly even like his silly afro-bird. It's just that he keeps on drifting dangerously close to Hope's vacated whiney-boy territory. Sazh's voice actor does handle it better, though.

I don't like these guys as much as the ones in 7 or 6, but I definitely like them more than any FF cast since 7.

I don't have any problem with the game's linearity. As I've been playing JRPGs for the past 10 years, I don't see anything other than a refinement of what has been the norm for a long time. Xenosaga's structure was definitely a primary influence in this game.

The combat system is the least involving one I've seen on anything outside a Western RPG. The reviewers who are claiming this system's brilliance are out of their fucking minds. That said, it is oddly rewarding to "Break" an enemy, pop him up into the air, and then deliver untold nuclear punishment.

Come to think of it, that seems very similar to a mechanic in Xenosaga II. That game was turn based instead of action/timing based, but enemies had "break zones." After they were broken, you could pop them in the air or knock them on their ass and nuke the crap out of them for improved damage. I didn't like Xenosaga II's combat system either, but I do admit I sort of missed it when I moved on to X3.

The main bit of player involvement in the FF13 system seems to be knowing when to trigger actions early in order to keep the enemy's break bar from draining. All that effort for a lame timing puzzle like Squall's gunblade trigger ::sigh::

Despite all that, I get into the combats for some reason.

Oh well. On to the marathon.