45 replies to this topic

[snakeboy]

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:26 AM, said:

I am not sure what "VIDEO GAME" doesn't scream teenage boy, however, if you put together a list of great Wii games, I am sure an arguement could be made that the list you put together would scream "8 year old girl". Elebits? Mario Galaxy? Cooking Mamma? Your arguement is pointless, but you did add the "rolly eyes" so I guess that does drive the point home.

What games are "Gamer" games? I'm just stating that the majority of people who are "into" video games are more likely to play Gears of War than Chu Chu Rocket.

Well, judging by that list of great Wii games that you came up with, you clearly aren't that familiar with the Wii library.

And what's with these continued insinuations that if you like the games the Wii has to offer, you aren't a "true" or "real" gamer. Yeah, no one ever just comes out and says it, but it is heavily implied. So I guess since I like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Boom Blox, and Endless Ocean, I'm not a true gamer. Well, after reading lots of comments by supposed "real gamers" on sites like IGN, I should probably take that as a compliment.

[Red 5]

snakeboy, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:52 AM, said:

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:26 AM, said:

I am not sure what "VIDEO GAME" doesn't scream teenage boy, however, if you put together a list of great Wii games, I am sure an arguement could be made that the list you put together would scream "8 year old girl". Elebits? Mario Galaxy? Cooking Mamma? Your arguement is pointless, but you did add the "rolly eyes" so I guess that does drive the point home.

What games are "Gamer" games? I'm just stating that the majority of people who are "into" video games are more likely to play Gears of War than Chu Chu Rocket.

Well, judging by that list of great Wii games that you came up with, you clearly aren't that familiar with the Wii library.

And what's with these continued insinuations that if you like the games the Wii has to offer, you aren't a "true" or "real" gamer. Yeah, no one ever just comes out and says it, but it is heavily implied. So I guess since I like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Boom Blox, and Endless Ocean, I'm not a true gamer. Well, after reading lots of comments by supposed "real gamers" on sites like IGN, I should probably take that as a compliment.

I'm not insinuating anything. EVERYONE likes Wii Sports and Mario. There's nothing wrong with that. The only point I am trying to make is that there is a significant difference between "Great Wii Games" and "Great PC / PS3 / Xbox 360 Games". You don't have to be a "gamer", "geek", "nerd", "techie" or anything else to see that. It is a blatantly obvious distinction.

And, now stay with me now because this is the important part, your opinion of what type of game you like will be very important to what YOU like better. I would imagine that the sterotypical "GAMER" (whatever the hell that means) would be associated with games like Halo than they would Boom Blox. I am not saying I am a gamer because I would rather play Assassin's Creed or God of War instead of Nintendo style games. I just like the other type much better.

The fact is that Nintendo Wii is a system that was created and marketed to the masses. It's brilliant because people bought into it. It is a money making machine. Carnival is a piece of absolute crap that has sold over 3.5 million copies. I am not sure what that says about the Wii community to you, but it seems telling to me.

Microsoft and Sony market to a particular group. While I own a Wii, I can tell you I easily fall into the Sony / 360 demographic because I like games like I stated above.

Wii markets to a completely different demographic. They cater to the masses to make a profit with games that would never have a chance in hell to those who play the 360 or PS3. I don't blame them for this. It is a brilliant business strategy and they are making a fortune. There is no wrong or right answer. The answer is you like Wii better and if anyone thinks less of you for that, then they are stupid. Some people like root beer better than cherry coke. Who cares? In the end though, there is no denying that Sony and Microsoft cater to what they think the "gamer" is (whatever your definition of that is) and Nintendo caters to masses. If that is soccer moms and folks in old age homes or "gamers", the anser is Wii is for everyone.

If you want to argue that feel free but here are the facts. I would imagine you can see quite a difference between the two lists.
The top 10 selling Wii games of all time:

• Wii Sports (60.69 million)^[70]
• Wii Play (26.71 million)^[70]
• Wii Fit (22.56 million)^[70]
• Mario Kart Wii (21.22 million)^[70]
• Wii Sports Resort (13.58 million approximately)^[70]
• New Super Mario Bros. Wii (10.55 million approximately)^[70]
• Wii Fit Plus (10.16 million)^[70]
• Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.43 million)
• Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million)
• Mario Party 8 (6.72 million)

By contrast, here are the top 10 360 games:

Halo 3 (8.1 million)^[24]
Gears of War (5 million,^[25] may include PC version)
Gears of War 2 (5 million)^[26]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (4.2 million)^[27]
Grand Theft Auto IV (4.074 million
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (3.772 million
Call of Duty: World at War (3.35 million approximately:
Halo 3: ODST (3 million)^[35]
Forza Motorsport 2 (2.674 million)
Fable II (2.6 million)^[38]

[Red 5]

HammR25, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:09 PM, said:

The greatest putdown is that people feel they have to defend it. It is what it is. If you have one and have fun with it then that's all that matters.

Exactly.

[atarian63]

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:26 AM, said:

atarian63, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:22 PM, said:

Red 5, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:48 PM, said:

There really is no true library of great games for the "gamer". It's just the truth. And god forbid you aren't a Mario fan, then that library dwindles down even more.
If you aren't a Zelda or Metroid fan, then we are in deeper trouble.

And just being honest, when you are playing Mass Effect 2, God of War 3, Gears of War 2, Fallout 3, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, Halo 3, Call of Duty 4 etc., the Wii looks ridonkulously like ass.

I have a Wii, and my 6 year old plays the hell out of it. I think that is what people mean by it was made for kids and soccer moms. When I watch my kid play Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games with his friends, I think, "wow, this system is totally marketed to kids." When the kids are in bed and I am playing Uncharted or Mass Effect I feel like I am playing a serious console for people who love video games. It's just my honest opinion and I know there are a lot of different opinions on this.

I look forward to a few Wii games so I can play them with my son. A new Zelda, a new Mario Galaxy 2 will be fun and we will "get a kick out of it."
When I fire up the PS3 or Xbox 360, I hunker down for some serious gaming.

If it was the only game system I had, I would be digging deep to find those hidden gems for the Wii, but with the insane library of amazing games for the PS3 and 360, why bother? For now, I will simply dust off the Wii for myself to use whenever And just being honest, when you are playing Mass Effect 2, God of War 3, Gears of War 2, Fallout 3, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain, Halo 3, Call of Duty 4 etc., the Wii looks ridonkulously like ass.
the new Mario or Zelda games come out.

All games I would never buy anyway. most of those games scream "teenage boy" not gamer.

Those are the games that I enjoy. I could list others that the Wii couldn't touch that I could care less about. For instance, FFXIII, Dragon Age Origins, Grand Theft Auto 4, Street Fighter 4, Dead or Alive 4 etc.

There are other games that I didn't even mention that I like that Wii can't touch like Arkham Assylum.

I am not sure what "VIDEO GAME" doesn't scream teenage boy, however, if you put together a list of great Wii games, I am sure an arguement could be made that the list you put together would scream "8 year old girl". Elebits? Mario Galaxy? Cooking Mamma? Your arguement is pointless, but you did add the "rolly eyes" so I guess that does drive the point home.

What games are "Gamer" games? I'm just stating that the majority of people who are "into" video games are more likely to play Gears of War than Chu Chu Rocket.

I see your opinion, however that as far as "gamers" go ,whatever that means, I would have to say xbox and ps3 are in the minority as combined they are less than 50% of the console market.
I do see where you are coming from however. Last gen I had an xbox and bought a total of 3 games for it. Sold it not long ago as it was a useless console to me. The Cube was my choice in that generation, still play games from it.
The only consoles that see use for gaming for me and the fam are mainly the wii and sometimes the ps3 though ps3 is single gaming not online (which I really do not like).
Maybe it's video games to me are 80's type of things, what we have now are more of a movie/drama which is really not a game to me.

[atarian63]

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:28 AM, said:

snakeboy, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:52 AM, said:

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:26 AM, said:

I am not sure what "VIDEO GAME" doesn't scream teenage boy, however, if you put together a list of great Wii games, I am sure an arguement could be made that the list you put together would scream "8 year old girl". Elebits? Mario Galaxy? Cooking Mamma? Your arguement is pointless, but you did add the "rolly eyes" so I guess that does drive the point home.

What games are "Gamer" games? I'm just stating that the majority of people who are "into" video games are more likely to play Gears of War than Chu Chu Rocket.

Well, judging by that list of great Wii games that you came up with, you clearly aren't that familiar with the Wii library.

And what's with these continued insinuations that if you like the games the Wii has to offer, you aren't a "true" or "real" gamer. Yeah, no one ever just comes out and says it, but it is heavily implied. So I guess since I like Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Boom Blox, and Endless Ocean, I'm not a true gamer. Well, after reading lots of comments by supposed "real gamers" on sites like IGN, I should probably take that as a compliment.

I'm not insinuating anything. EVERYONE likes Wii Sports and Mario. There's nothing wrong with that. The only point I am trying to make is that there is a significant difference between "Great Wii Games" and "Great PC / PS3 / Xbox 360 Games". You don't have to be a "gamer", "geek", "nerd", "techie" or anything else to see that. It is a blatantly obvious distinction.

And, now stay with me now because this is the important part, your opinion of what type of game you like will be very important to what YOU like better. I would imagine that the sterotypical "GAMER" (whatever the hell that means) would be associated with games like Halo than they would Boom Blox. I am not saying I am a gamer because I would rather play Assassin's Creed or God of War instead of Nintendo style games. I just like the other type much better.

The fact is that Nintendo Wii is a system that was created and marketed to the masses. It's brilliant because people bought into it. It is a money making machine. Carnival is a piece of absolute crap that has sold over 3.5 million copies. I am not sure what that says about the Wii community to you, but it seems telling to me.

Microsoft and Sony market to a particular group. While I own a Wii, I can tell you I easily fall into the Sony / 360 demographic because I like games like I stated above.

Wii markets to a completely different demographic. They cater to the masses to make a profit with games that would never have a chance in hell to those who play the 360 or PS3. I don't blame them for this. It is a brilliant business strategy and they are making a fortune. There is no wrong or right answer. The answer is you like Wii better and if anyone thinks less of you for that, then they are stupid. Some people like root beer better than cherry coke. Who cares? In the end though, there is no denying that Sony and Microsoft cater to what they think the "gamer" is (whatever your definition of that is) and Nintendo caters to masses. If that is soccer moms and folks in old age homes or "gamers", the anser is Wii is for everyone.

If you want to argue that feel free but here are the facts. I would imagine you can see quite a difference between the two lists.
The top 10 selling Wii games of all time:

• Wii Sports (60.69 million)^[70]
• Wii Play (26.71 million)^[70]
• Wii Fit (22.56 million)^[70]
• Mario Kart Wii (21.22 million)^[70]
• Wii Sports Resort (13.58 million approximately)^[70]
• New Super Mario Bros. Wii (10.55 million approximately)^[70]
• Wii Fit Plus (10.16 million)^[70]
• Super Smash Bros. Brawl (8.43 million)
• Super Mario Galaxy (8.02 million)
• Mario Party 8 (6.72 million)

By contrast, here are the top 10 360 games:

Halo 3 (8.1 million)^[24]
Gears of War (5 million,^[25] may include PC version)
Gears of War 2 (5 million)^[26]
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (4.2 million)^[27]
Grand Theft Auto IV (4.074 million
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (3.772 million
Call of Duty: World at War (3.35 million approximately:
Halo 3: ODST (3 million)^[35]
Forza Motorsport 2 (2.674 million)
Fable II (2.6 million)^[38]

Wow, that is a huge difference in numbers sold. Probably due to installed base. I really would have to say I am in the Wii camp on those titles.

[snakeboy]

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:28 AM, said:

I would imagine that the sterotypical "GAMER" (whatever the hell that means)...

Hmm, I was hoping that you could tell me what that means since you've been making statements like, "There really is no true library of great games for the gamer." I read that and think, well, perhaps I'm not a real gamer since I have a good 30 or so Wii games that I enjoy. But considering the negative connotations that come with the word "gamer," maybe that's not such a bad thing.

And yeah, I get the point you're making that the Wii has different types of games from the Xbox or PS3. I'm not an idiot. I can plainly see that. If you go back to my original post(which was meant as a fun list that I thought was entertaining, not some hardcore defense of the Wii), I basically said that any statement about how the Wii has no quality, fun games is pretty silly. I never said that I had a problem with anyone who prefers the types of games on the Xbox or PS3. I have a PS3, and I like it. Yeah, I play the Wii more and enjoy it a bit more overall, primarily because it's taken gaming in a little different direction rather than doing basically the same types of games as last gen with better graphics. If you prefer the latter, fine. Go play those games and enjoy.

[Red 5]

I have no assumption of what "gamer" means, please keep that in mind as I make the following statement...

In Uber Geek world where your base belong to us and 73eT and pwned stuff, if you asked the crowd at IGN for example:

Looking at the top 3 selling games for the Wii and the 360, what would the "hardcore gamer" play?
And looking at the top 3 again, what would kids and soccer moms play?

Wii Fit
Wii Sport
Mario Kart

or

Halo 3
Gears of War 1&2
Call of Duty 4

I am just making the arguement that the vast majority of people would answer that question the same way unless they were not being honest. Now I don't give a rats ass who is a hardcore gamer and who isn't. I don't care who likes Wii or the 360 or PS3. However, there is a huge distinction between the two system types. There are obvious differences. And isn't it a wonderful world that we can all choose between the two? So if the people at IGN and GameFan don't think you're a "gamer" because you play Wii Fit and like it better than God or War 3, well, why would anyone even care?

[DracIsBack]

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 PM, said:

Looking at the top 3 selling games for the Wii and the 360, what would the "hardcore gamer" play?
And looking at the top 3 again, what would kids and soccer moms play?

Point taken on the first two. On the third, I'm always skeptical.

I used to have console sessions with other gamers. We'd bring over the various Sony, Sega, Nintendo and Microsoft systems and the latest games. One of the people in the group made video games for one of the local houses and most people had at least two consoles.

Sounds like hardcore doesn't it?

What did we play? 50% would be a range of the latest titles that we'd all found. The other 50% was always Mario Kart. People (hardcore and casual alike) were addicted to that damn game.

[Red 5]

DracIsBack, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:13 PM, said:

Red 5, on Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 PM, said:

Looking at the top 3 selling games for the Wii and the 360, what would the "hardcore gamer" play?
And looking at the top 3 again, what would kids and soccer moms play?

Point taken on the first two. On the third, I'm always skeptical.

I used to have console sessions with other gamers. We'd bring over the various Sony, Sega, Nintendo and Microsoft systems and the latest games. One of the people in the group made video games for one of the local houses and most people had at least two consoles.

Sounds like hardcore doesn't it?

What did we play? 50% would be a range of the latest titles that we'd all found. The other 50% was always Mario Kart. People (hardcore and casual alike) were addicted to that damn game.

Agreed. I may have more hours with Mario Kart than I have acatually driving my car. (And I have a 40 minute commute. ) In my ... ummm ... wilder days there would be entire weekends with my roommates in altered states doing nothing but playing Mario Kart 64. I still think I can do every one of those courses with my eyes closed.

[Video]

snakeboy, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:55 PM, said:

Video, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:38 PM, said:

Actually, I'd have to say, the games are where the money is, Nintendo is in good luck that the system is selling for a profit, but just look at games sales, and it's simply not doing that well. That's talking with you're money

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here. Nintendo's games aren't selling that well? I guess the sales figures I've seen are different from the ones you've seen.

Wii games in general don't sell well. I'd love to see the figures if you'd care to post them if you're getting something else, but outside of first party games, yeah, pretty much not.

HammR25, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:09 PM, said:

The greatest putdown is that people feel they have to defend it. It is what it is. If you have one and have fun with it then that's all that matters.

Exactly. People sweat over this stuff to much. Wii's cool for what it is, it won't replace my 360, it's cool for parties, and I enjoy a couple of games on it (at least one of which, I'm told I should loathe ) so what? I'll enjoy the games I like on it, not the ones I don't, and it'll get play (or lack of it) based on it's games.

[snakeboy]

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

snakeboy, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:55 PM, said:

Video, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:38 PM, said:

Actually, I'd have to say, the games are where the money is, Nintendo is in good luck that the system is selling for a profit, but just look at games sales, and it's simply not doing that well. That's talking with you're money

I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here. Nintendo's games aren't selling that well? I guess the sales figures I've seen are different from the ones you've seen.

Wii games in general don't sell well. I'd love to see the figures if you'd care to post them if you're getting something else, but outside of first party games, yeah, pretty much not.

Well, I said that I wasn't sure if I understood what you were saying, and I didn't. From the way you stated it, it sounded like you said Nintendo's own games weren't selling well: "Nintendo is in good luck that the system is selling for profit, but just look at game sales, and it's simply not doing too well." If you are talking about third parties, then I'm not quite sure how that is hurting Nintendo's bottom line. Even if they were selling the system at a loss, it isn't unusual for their games to sell 5-10 million or more. Then again, I don't know how the video game industry and the economics behind it works, so perhaps I'm missing something.

[snakeboy]

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

HammR25, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:09 PM, said:

The greatest putdown is that people feel they have to defend it. It is what it is. If you have one and have fun with it then that's all that matters.

Exactly. People sweat over this stuff to much.

So what is your opinion of people who feel the need to enter threads like this and defend their reasons for not liking the Wii?

[Red 5]

snakeboy, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:01 PM, said:

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

HammR25, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:09 PM, said:

The greatest putdown is that people feel they have to defend it. It is what it is. If you have one and have fun with it then that's all that matters.

Exactly. People sweat over this stuff to much.

So what is your opinion of people who feel the need to enter threads like this and defend their reasons for not liking the Wii?

Did you create the post in hopes everyone would smile, nod and agree with you or was it just for general information or was it to enter a debate? When you post something like your original post, you have to know that it will be critiqued, no?

Unless the topic is the "Atari 2600 is the best system ever" (which it is ) there are going to be some critics.

[snakeboy]

Red 5, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:54 PM, said:

snakeboy, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:01 PM, said:

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

HammR25, on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:09 PM, said:

The greatest putdown is that people feel they have to defend it. It is what it is. If you have one and have fun with it then that's all that matters.

Exactly. People sweat over this stuff to much.

So what is your opinion of people who feel the need to enter threads like this and defend their reasons for not liking the Wii?

Did you create the post in hopes everyone would smile, nod and agree with you or was it just for general information or was it to enter a debate? When you post something like your original post, you have to know that it will be critiqued, no?

This thread was the result of hearing once again somewhere that the Wii was the most expensive system because of all the peripherals you supposedly had to buy with it. So I thought it would be fun to come up with as many ridiculous comments as I could about the Wii that I've heard over the years. So, yeah, it was sort of done to entertain myself really. But with that being said, I don't care if someone wants to defend one of the statements that I listed in the original post, and it certainly doesn't surprise me that someone did. But if you are going to critique my post, then why can't I defend my position? If you say anything that can be taken as defending the Wii, the reaction is "Relax, just go play the games you like and forget about it." But if someone defends the reasons why they don't like it, then I suppose that's okay. That's just participating in the discussion.

[DracIsBack]

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

Wii games in general don't sell well. I'd love to see the figures if you'd care to post them if you're getting something else, but outside of first party games, yeah, pretty much not.

According to VGChartz there are nearly 40 games that have been million plus sellers on the Wii. This includes casual and hardcore titles. Heck, even Call Of Duty Reflex (an old game, long available on other platforms) is closing in on a million units sold.

I think there's valid criticism that many Wii games don't sell as well as expected given the user base and that it can be extremely tricky to make an T or M game work on the system. But I do think the blanket, "no one buys Wii games" and "third party games don't sell on the Wii" statement is overblown. To be frank, if they didn't sell, no one would make them. But for some reason the press likes to jump to conclusions as to whether or not Wii games make or lose money based upon how many units they sell ... and without knowing how much they cost to make.

A good example is "Mad World" and "The Conduit". I often see the press refer to how well they sold in their first week as an example of failure. What I see reported a whole lot less are quotes from Sega saying they are "pleased with sales", and "we'll hit our numbers". etc. Not as exciting a story, I guess.

[snakeboy]

DracIsBack, on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:13 AM, said:

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

Wii games in general don't sell well. I'd love to see the figures if you'd care to post them if you're getting something else, but outside of first party games, yeah, pretty much not.

According to VGChartz there are nearly 40 games that have been million plus sellers on the Wii. This includes casual and hardcore titles. Heck, even Call Of Duty Reflex (an old game, long available on other platforms) is closing in on a million units sold.

I think there's valid criticism that many Wii games don't sell as well as expected given the user base and that it can be extremely tricky to make an T or M game work on the system. But I do think the blanket, "no one buys Wii games" and "third party games don't sell on the Wii" statement is overblown. To be frank, if they didn't sell, no one would make them. But for some reason the press likes to jump to conclusions as to whether or not Wii games make or lose money based upon how many units they sell ... and without knowing how much they cost to make.

A good example is "Mad World" and "The Conduit". I often see the press refer to how well they sold in their first week as an example of failure. What I see reported a whole lot less are quotes from Sega saying they are "pleased with sales", and "we'll hit our numbers". etc. Not as exciting a story, I guess.

For anyone interested, here is a recent list that I found of games that have sold over a million on the Wii.

[snakeboy]

Video, on Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 AM, said:

Exactly. People sweat over this stuff to much. Wii's cool for what it is, it won't replace my 360, it's cool for parties, and I enjoy a couple of games on it (at least one of which, I'm told I should loathe ) so what? I'll enjoy the games I like on it, not the ones I don't, and it'll get play (or lack of it) based on it's games.

You know what? I've just had sort of a revelation, and I agree completely 100% with this. I'm starting to wonder why I even created this thread in the first place and have wasted time participating in this ridiculous discussion. It really is neither fun nor intellectually stimulating. There are certainly a lot better things I can do to occupy my time.

[hex65000]

snakeboy, on Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:18 PM, said:

You know what? I've just had sort of a revelation, and I agree completely 100% with this. I'm starting to wonder why I even created this thread in the first place and have wasted time participating in this ridiculous discussion. It really is neither fun nor intellectually stimulating. There are certainly a lot better things I can do to occupy my time.

DING!

You are correct sir, but sometimes we all fall into the trap of, "I can't stop typing now. Someone is _WRONG_ on the Internet!"
The Wii is a good machine as are the other two. Buy what you like and get on with your life.

Hex.
[ Has a 'wishlist' for the Wii. Some of which Nintendo is solving, and some of which you may not expect... ]

[Video]

What do you mean "someone is wrong on the internet"? Everybody's wrong on the internet....well...except for me, but that's for another topic *ducks flying tomatoes* I was just kidding, KIDDING!!

How about..."the wii is just a gamecube with extra memory" ? The gamecube doesn't have extra memory, I mean, Wii, just the discs do *ducks more flying tomatoes* Anyhow, I gotta go now

[Cybergoth]

Video, on Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:24 PM, said:

What do you mean "someone is wrong on the internet"?

This:

[Video]

Cybergoth, on Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:30 PM, said:

Video, on Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:24 PM, said:

What do you mean "someone is wrong on the internet"?

This:

Jacked