39 replies to this topic

[Reaperman]

no more linux on any ps3, eh?

so, all this firmware update does is disable functionality I already have? I sure don't feel great about this move.
I know I never used it, but damn, why take my cool feature away? Why give me 5 short days notice?

http://blog.us.plays...e-v3-21-update/

edit: rumor is it's because of this--whatever that is. or is this thing just one big april fools joke and a sick publicity stunt? If not will they change their 'it only does everything' motto?

Quote

The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) system will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST), and will disable the “Install Other OS” feature that was available on the PS3 systems prior to the current slimmer models, launched in September 2009. This feature enabled users to install an operating system, but due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.21 system software update.

In addition, disabling the “Other OS” feature will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system.

Consumers and organizations that currently use the “Other OS” feature can choose not to upgrade their PS3 systems, although the following features will no longer be available;

• Ability to sign in to PlayStation Network and use network features that require signing in to PlayStation Network, such as online features of PS3 games and chat
  
• Playback of PS3 software titles or Blu-ray Disc videos that require PS3 system software version 3.21 or later
  
• Playback of copyright-protected videos that are stored on a media server (when DTCP-IP is enabled under Settings)
  
• Use of new features and improvements that are available on PS3 system software 3.21 or later
  
• For those PS3 users who are currently using the “Other OS” feature but choose to install the system software update, to avoid data loss they first need to back-up any data stored within the hard drive partition used by the “Other OS,” as they will not be able to access that data following the update.

Edited by Reaperman, Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:33 PM.

[Hyper_Eye]

April Fools? That seems possible. If not Sony will get some backlash. I don't think it is a smart announcement to make as an April Fools joke but I wouldn't put it past Sony (who has made goofy announcements in the past) and it would be even less smart for it to be real.

[xg4bx]

thank the hackers who can't stop diddling with shit. sony has every right to protect their platform.

[KrazyKaiju]

The guy that broke the PS3's protection a while back used a Linux install and some soldering to get full control of the hypervisor. Removing 'Install other OS' is just Sony's way of locking out homebrew before it gets started.

I like my PS3, but I'm getting tired of Sony gimping the system while trying to tell us it's all for the customer's benefit. Each unit should have at least the same functionality it had at the time of purchase, regardless of firmware updates. If they want to take away a useful feature after the fact, then they should be legally required to take back systems for a full refund if the affected customers desire. In fact, I can see a lot of people going to small claims court in the near future to do exactly that.

[cimerians]

Its probably an April fools.

I hate to say it but I have to go with Sony and even Nintendo (with all the crazy new DS versions) on this one. I love homebrew as the next guy but lets face it. Systems get hacked for other reasons too, to allow the ability to play burned\ripped games (Xbox 360 and the Wii are good examples) that you don't own.

I dont like the fact that they are removing a feature since it came with it when you paid for it. That I don't like, but whats the solution? What do they do?

Nintendo seems to just come out with another system every 6 months for the huge DS flash cart problem they have. Sony seems to be doing the same with the PSP.

I don't know but I expect things like this to happen these days. (If its true)

[potatohead]

I think they should just rent the consoles, then there is no conflict; otherwise, if I bought it, then it's mine, and I reserve the right to do what I will with it.

Doing that IS NOT IN AND OF ITSELF A CRIME.

[MCHufnagel]

potatohead, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:35 PM, said:

I think they should just rent the consoles, then there is no conflict; otherwise, if I bought it, then it's mine, and I reserve the right to do what I will with it.

Doing that IS NOT IN AND OF ITSELF A CRIME.

I totally agree with you. Modern hardware companies like Apple and Sony feel that they still own a product that they sell you. While, hacking often leads to piracy, companies just don't want you using their products with apps they can't make any money on. I find myself playing pc games the majority of time lately because of the freedom of choice I have with the platform. I can play emulators, freeware (OMG!) indy games, old games and even modern high tech mobo melters. But I can choose what I want to do with it. And what level of DRM indebtedness to whatever degree I choose.

Sorry for the rant. But to me this isn't the straw that broke the camel's back. It's just another tree trunk dropped on a squished camel!

[potatohead]

...and why you won't catch me with big investments in any modern systems.

[Jess Ragan]

Yeah, this is just one of the reasons that I don't groove with the PS3. I don't really like the system much. It tries to do everything the Xbox 360 does but does it in a strange, alien way that just doesn't click with me.

The Linux compatibility seemed like an interesting, if largely vestigial, feature, but the fact that Sony is willing to strip it away at the drop of a hat doesn't sit well with me. Sony's been stripping a lot of things from their game console lately, all for the sake of that damned Blu-Ray drive. By the time they're finished, that's probably all that will be left!

MCHufnagel, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:53 PM, said:

potatohead, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:35 PM, said:

I think they should just rent the consoles, then there is no conflict; otherwise, if I bought it, then it's mine, and I reserve the right to do what I will with it.

Doing that IS NOT IN AND OF ITSELF A CRIME.

I totally agree with you. Modern hardware companies like Apple and Sony feel that they still own a product that they sell you. While, hacking often leads to piracy, companies just don't want you using their products with apps they can't make any money on. I find myself playing pc games the majority of time lately because of the freedom of choice I have with the platform. I can play emulators, freeware (OMG!) indy games, old games and even modern high tech mobo melters. But I can choose what I want to do with it. And what level of DRM indebtedness to whatever degree I choose.

Sorry for the rant. But to me this isn't the straw that broke the camel's back. It's just another tree trunk dropped on a squished camel!

[Wntermute]

I never used the OtherOS feature of either of my BC PS3s. I just never saw the need. If I want Linux, I'll use a machine I can get better use out of. There were just too many good hardware parts that Linux couldn't touch, like all of the CPU cores and such.

[Longhorn Engineer]

Sony doing this will not effect there sales. Who buys the ps3 for that feature alone? It is not even advertised on the box.

[xg4bx]

KrazyKaiju, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:36 PM, said:

The guy that broke the PS3's protection a while back used a Linux install and some soldering to get full control of the hypervisor. Removing 'Install other OS' is just Sony's way of locking out homebrew before it gets started.

I like my PS3, but I'm getting tired of Sony gimping the system while trying to tell us it's all for the customer's benefit. Each unit should have at least the same functionality it had at the time of purchase, regardless of firmware updates. If they want to take away a useful feature after the fact, then they should be legally required to take back systems for a full refund if the affected customers desire. In fact, I can see a lot of people going to small claims court in the near future to do exactly that.

go to court for what? almost every electronic device states that the company reserves the right to add and remove features as they see fit, without warning or compensation.

spin it however you want, people just want the ability to pirate games. period. you want cfw? want homebrew? want linux? run it on your damn pc, not a playstation. a ps3 is for playing ps3 games, it's not your personal playground. want all that shit? then spend tens of millions of your own dollars and invent a "do-whatever-you-want"station.

[rpgfaker]

pfft the 321 update april 1st? why is this even being discussed as serious?

[Bilnick]

xg4bx, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:38 AM, said:

KrazyKaiju, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:36 PM, said:

The guy that broke the PS3's protection a while back used a Linux install and some soldering to get full control of the hypervisor. Removing 'Install other OS' is just Sony's way of locking out homebrew before it gets started.

I like my PS3, but I'm getting tired of Sony gimping the system while trying to tell us it's all for the customer's benefit. Each unit should have at least the same functionality it had at the time of purchase, regardless of firmware updates. If they want to take away a useful feature after the fact, then they should be legally required to take back systems for a full refund if the affected customers desire. In fact, I can see a lot of people going to small claims court in the near future to do exactly that.

go to court for what? almost every electronic device states that the company reserves the right to add and remove features as they see fit, without warning or compensation.

spin it however you want, people just want the ability to pirate games. period. you want cfw? want homebrew? want linux? run it on your damn pc, not a playstation. a ps3 is for playing ps3 games, it's not your personal playground. want all that shit? then spend tens of millions of your own dollars and invent a "do-whatever-you-want"station.

Removing Linux isn't that big of a deal for the vast majority of users (including myself). It is a bad precedent to remove a feature from machines already sold. Removing Linux or PS2 compatibility from new versions of PS3s I was ok with because the consumer knew that these features were not included when he/she purchased the system.

What if Sony decides that the PS3 will no play PS1 discs because they want you to buy PS1 games from their store? Or maybe someone figured out a way to hack a PS3 using a PS1 disc? Would that be ok?

[potatohead]

"people just want the ability to pirate games. period"

A lot of people do. No question.

However, a lot of people also just want to use THEIR device too, and that's where the conflict is. Let's just be honest about all of the elements in play here, and not validate Sony being overly aggressive about locking down hardware, just because some people are going to pirate things.

I don't condone that. I also don't condone making things that treat the owners of them as hostile. Really, in this scenario, it's not your hardware. You don't really own it, Sony does, and that's the core idea behind efforts to run user code on the hardware. Piracy is but an artifact of that.

This is why I won't ever make a significant investment in newer gaming gear. Has nothing to do with piracy, and everything to do with hobby, learning, fun, home brew, etc...

A very large element here is simple control with the goal to inhibit competition, and or own the works of others. That's as big of a deal as piracy is, and the success seen today is a big part of why gaming is stale. That guy in the garage, who has an idea, is shut out, more often than not, and we all pay the price for that.

The end game for big content publishers is a pay for play, and ownership and or control of all creative works. They don't want somebody to come along, actually innovate, and threaten their place at the top. You hear screaming over piracy, but you don't hear anywhere near as much screaming over those things, and they are just as valid, and are the core reason why I support those that do open hardware.

Edited by potatohead, Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:17 AM.

[Mord]

Hyper_Eye, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:33 PM, said:

April Fools? That seems possible.

I could be wrong, but it's generally a bad decision to pull an April Fool's joke prior or after April 1st. Given everything else Sony has done during this console's life I'd say it's very possible it's true.

I wonder what'll happen to all the PS3's the US government bought to hack passwords a year or so ago. I'm pretty sure they're running linux.

If this Linux feature was loudly advertised as a feature tho, I'd suspect someone will get the idea to attempt a class action based on removing advertised features unnecessarily.

[Reaperman]

In another forum I was on, I actually recommended a ps3 for linux functionality. The member wanted a cheap computer for his kids that could teach general computer use, play modern games without much messing with, and be quickly recoverable if they broke it. Seemed like the ps3 generally fit the bill and cost about the same as a PC ($399 at the time). It was also a wonderful excuse to sneak the latest playstation under his wife's radar--it reminds me of how Atari snuck games into my house. Thankfully he didn't go the sony route and got them a budget windows box instead.

This is a no-win for Sony. Yes, they have the right to defend their platform from piracy. No, the firmware upgrade isn't required--though function as a game system, movie player and 'it only does everything' machine will be *greatly* impared. But in general this is just a slimey thing to do. I'm sure Sony did a quick member headcount on the ps3 linux forums and felt cutting them off was less damaging to the brand than open piracy. Given what the psp scene looks like, I'm not too surprised that they would cut off their own right leg to prevent that.

I still don't like it, and I'm trying to decide on 'how much' I don't like it. It would be nice if sony tried to do something additionally positive with this update, or for the linux community in general. Give me a new feature to replace 'alternate os functionality' in my "ps3 is awesome" list, or provide an alternate 'mostly linux' firmware to the linuxers, so they can enjoy their loss of psn functionality in style.

Edited by Reaperman, Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:11 AM.

[Tempest]

Isn't that the sequel to No More Heroes?

Tempest

[Hatta]

xg4bx, on Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:25 PM, said:

thank the hackers who can't stop diddling with shit. sony has every right to protect their platform.

When I buy it, it's MY platform. Removing features from something I own is clearly wrong. Fortunately, I never buy a console until it's well and truly cracked. I will choose what I do with my hardware, TYVM. The longer Sony keeps this kind of shit up, the longer they'll have to wait until they see a dime of my money.

[Longhorn Engineer]

Mord, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:49 AM, said:

I wonder what'll happen to all the PS3's the US government bought to hack passwords a year or so ago. I'm pretty sure they're running linux.

Then just don't update your PS3. Simple really.

[Bilnick]

Longhorn Engineer, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:08 PM, said:

Mord, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:49 AM, said:

I wonder what'll happen to all the PS3's the US government bought to hack passwords a year or so ago. I'm pretty sure they're running linux.

Then just don't update your PS3. Simple really.

I am guessing that in order to play future releases, upgrading the firmware will be required.

[Reaperman]

Bilnick, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:34 PM, said:

Longhorn Engineer, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:08 PM, said:

Mord, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:49 AM, said:

I wonder what'll happen to all the PS3's the US government bought to hack passwords a year or so ago. I'm pretty sure they're running linux.

Then just don't update your PS3. Simple really.

I am guessing that in order to play future releases, upgrading the firmware will be required.

while that's true, I don't think those machines were used to play past releases, so future ones won't be too terribly missed.

[KrazyKaiju]

xg4bx, on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:38 AM, said:

go to court for what? almost every electronic device states that the company reserves the right to add and remove features as they see fit, without warning or compensation.

No, actually they can't. EULAs are not enforceable in every state. Besides, this would be like Ford recalling all their vehicles and removing the cupholders because they reserve the right to add and remove features as they see fit.

[potatohead]

Here's the reality:

Yes they can, period. There isn't anything you can do, besides take your stuff and remove it from the net, and run what you've got right now. We might see a few warm fuzzy class actions, resulting in a $20 coupon toward the purchase of more of the same crap, but that's about it. Ever wonder about the significance of the Citizens United Supreme Court decision recently passed? You know that one that permits big companies to spend as much as they want on politics?

Well, now you know one artifact of it. They can, want to, and will do this stuff, and that's how it will be, end of story.

They can do this because you've got NO options, other than to go and buy the other guys closed box, who can and will do exactly the same thing. They can do this because you have next to no real representation too.

That is the state of things, and they are working on moving it to computers, which remain largely open, but have been shipping with closed, protected operation options for a while now. XP is the last "open" Microsoft OS, leaving Linux, and an increasingly limited supply of new hardware to run on. Notice the graphics vendors increasingly spotty support?

Remember, Vista and now Windows 7 include a very ugly DRM kernel that can deny you access to your own machine. In fact, it largely does, because you the user cannot operate with the same privilege level as their software does. They spiffed it up, worked the bugs out and people like it, but they didn't change anything about the core that denies you, the user and owner, the ability to actually call the shots on your own machine.

Look at the trend with the closed Apple stuff, most all cell phones, and such... It's all been going on for many years now, and those people 10, 20 years ago, who pointed this stuff out were ignored, marginalized, and basically not doing shit today. They lost, we lost, and the big corporations won all rounds.

What you think about it really isn't all that important, because most people will just deal with it, because they either don't care, or don't realize the importance of these things, and in the end, that's all the same isn't it? I think so.

IP protection continues to rise in importance, and the fact is the big companies are winning the debate, because they have the money, they are trans-national, they have the smarts, they have the content, and they present $$$ to the economy, and to politicians, and ordinary people don't. It will go their way in all but a few places in the world, and you will see those places experience extreme economic pressure to comply, just like Canada is being threatened with right now. If they want a trade agreement for jobs and exports and such, then they sign over their IP / Copyright law, or maybe that business can just go elsewhere. That's the standard line, go read the news, it's all there, reported every week.

Soon, in a few years or so, maybe sooner, the world wide copyright / counterfeiting treaty being worked on, largely in secret, will come into play, and when it does, the current copyright + DMCA environment will seem like heaven on earth by comparison. It will trump most local laws, criminalize what most of us would call fair use, and establish strong new rights, and police protections for "broadcasters" and "content creators", and will do so without even a significant public debate! Why? Because we are the cash cow, and nothing more.

That the real state of things. They are going to do it, and you are either going to deal, or walk.

...and if you wonder why I personally do mostly retro and open source stuff, that's why.

[Lendorien]

I remember back in 2006, Creative tried to do this with their Creative Zen mp3 player. They removed the FM recording feature. People got up in arms over losing a feature that had been on the machine when they bought it. Creative backed down. Like Sony, Creative initially removed the feature over pirating concerns.

I will say that I find this issue extremely distressing. I have a Fat PS3 with this option. I likely would never have used it. Regardless, what bothers me is that Sony is removing an advertised feature from their product via a firmware update. Seriously, what other case can you find where a company with millions of consumers removed an advertised feature from a product after a consumer has bought it? And yes, Sony did advertise this feature early on when the system came out.

I truly hope that if someone does sue Sony, they get some support in the courts. Just because something is wired to the net shouldn't mean that the manufacturer gets to decide what features I get to keep on a product I bought which originally came with those features. There should be protections for consumers against shady things like this.

For the record, I understand why they're doing it, but I still say it's a terrible precedent and it scares the willies out of me because you know that lots of other companies will be keeping an eye on this situation as a case example of how much they can get away with.

As a side point, we gamers really really need a consumer advocacy group with some teeth. There are literally hundreds of millions of us. You'd think we could gather a little clout.

Edited by Lendorien, Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:31 AM.