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How to fix-it badly GTIA


Sikor

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O.K. It is very interestig thing: many Ataris (mostly Atari 800XE) has defected GTIA. simius from atariarea find method to fix-it (in test phase). More info in topic on atariarea: http://atariarea.krap.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7762 - look at pictures and schemat #2 (post #8: http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8975/fixgtia1.jpg ). Look very promisses - it fixex now about 80% of defected things (GTIA mode is O.K., some problems with Hires Graphics, but pictures are readable, some problems with mode-mixing in scane lines). But - with this fix - mostly games and demos with GTIA mode works o.k.

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Interesting.

 

I'd really have thought that nothing could be done about it. The bug itself just looks like they've done a run of CTIA chips by accident.

 

One of these days... hopefully a full explanation might come out... and not to mention whether or not that elusive Gr. 9/11 half pixel shift can be achieved.

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Hmm,

 

why invent the wheel twice ?!? Jiri Bernasek (Bewesoft) has already written a "how to..." fix bad GTIA chips that were made in China many years ago. Allthough I cannot find the text right now in my collection, it has been published in Abuc magazine and I think Carsten Strotmann has this text also on one of his Wiki pages... -Andreas Koch.

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If Bewesoft does know a fix, then why he hasn't published it on the net? ABBUC magazine, yes, what a great idea. Now:

 

1) en.wikipedia.org does not know anything about such a fix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTIA#Bugs quote: "the only soluton is to replace the chip"

 

2) nobody in PL heard anything on it

 

3) neither apparently did anyone in Australia

 

4) even an ABBUC member cannot find this text in his collection.

 

So, maybe that's why people tend to reinvent the wheel :P

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Wikipedia depends on members of the public actually creating/updating articles.

 

I don't think I've seen a single Atari-related article on it that's presented me with information I didn't already know or hadn't seen in much more detail elsewhere.

 

And it's kinda pointless doing much about it, because then some admin would probably come along and flag stuff and whine that the article is too long.

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Wikipedia depends on members of the public actually creating/updating articles.

 

Exactly. So, if the solution was known to the public, the en.wiki article wouldn't have stated for years that "the only solution is to replace". It is a great thing to invent something new, but it is also wise to publish it where it has chances to be read.

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Even if it can be found at Pigwa, I still don't think that I have to withdraw my statement above, have I? Besides (quotation follows):

 

"The described upgrade does correct the brightness of pixels (GRAPHICS 9 and 10), but not the color (GRAPHICS 10 and 11) - that's not so simple."

 

So, still, Simius' experiments seem to lead to better results, don't they? It seems to make sense to reinvent the wheel, if the reinvented wheel is about to lack angles :P

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Ha !

 

Since I got nothing else to do (besides sleeping, its almost 3 am here in Germany) I fought with Murphy`s law in the last two or three hours... but in the end I won, ha !! So attached you will find the GTIAfix text written by Jiri Bernasek in english language (I don`t have the czech text, so don`t ask me about it). Afaik it does not fix the GTIA 100%, so if you want to have a 100% working GTIA you still have to replace it...

 

-------------------

 

And for those that are interested in my fight with Mr. Murphy and his law, here is what I did:

1) I knew the GTIAfix text appeared in english on an older Abbuc disk-magazine (and in german on the paper-magazine). So all I had to do was to power-on my DOS based PC and use XDIR to search thru all my Abbuc magazines to find the english text. Then copy this text to a 3,5" disk and then upload it to my Win-XP PC so I can upload it on atari-age. Easy, huh ?!?

 

2) So I started powering-on my DOS PC, it worked but XDIR did not work, allthough I had used it just a day ago. Hmm, copied my backup of XDIR into the folder, unzipped it and there you go. Alas, it still did not work. Alright, use an older version of XDIR, no problem. Copied it to the subdir-folder, unzipped it - and it did not work. Tried various XDIR versions for maybe an hour but none of them worked. So I did several tests if my PC and the harddisk is still ok (used also scandisk and other checking programs) and everything worked fine, except XDIR... Finally I had a clue, XDIR consists of an *.EXE and a *.CFG program, both were in the same folder (subdir), but the *.CFG file has to be in the maindir ! Copied the *.CFG file into the maindir and voila - XDIR worked. Nice to find that out after an hour or so, but anyways... now on with searching for the Abbuc magazine and there it is, magazine Nr. 61, side A (named GTIASYNC.TXT). Loaded the text first and err well, it was packed with the menu program, so I had to boot the magazine and save the text as unpacked ATASCII text. Took me a while to find out how this works but I got thru it after a while... text saved as ATASCII on a 180k A8 5,25" diskette...

 

3) Next I wanted to convert the text file into ASCII and then copy it onto a 3,5" PC disk, finally copy it onto the Win-XP Pc to upload it. Easy, power-up the A8, convert ATASCII to ASCII, no problem. Now reading the 180k disk (with my 5,25" HD-PC drive) and Ataridsk. Hmm, did not work, the drive does not respond. Why ?!? Tried different things, but in the end the drive did not respond. Another hour passed by, checked the drive by rebooting the DOS PC, and the drive`s power light went on for a second, so it is there, BIOS is also configured correctly, but whenever I want to access the drive (B:), it simply does not react - why ?!? I used it and Ataridsk just yesterday! So I opened up the DOS PC and voila, the 34-pin cable that goes from the PC board to the drive was loose on the PC board. Put the cable into the board and klak, the drive was there and Ataridsk worked fine. How did this cable get loose, when the PC was only moved a few cm forwards/backwards ?!? Anyways, thanks to ataridsk the text is now on the PC harddisk. Copy it onto a 3,5" disk, copy it to the Win-XP PC and done...

 

4) The file copied fine to the 3,5" disk (good, the drive A: works), now put it into the drive of the Win-XP PC. This drive cannot read the disk !! Oh, could it be that I already awaited this ?!? So, used another disk and to my surprise it worked fine, the disk was read, the file has been transfered onto my WIN-XP harddisk, now on with uploading here - hopefully this works...

 

Uff, after more than two (almost three) hours I am done... yep, sometimes easy things can take hours with a PC. And me, I get quite angry when I did the same thing(s) yesterday without any problems and they do not work anymore today... ohahhrrrrrr, bong-bonk (thats when I hit my PC)... Hopefully this text is usefull somehow and my fight with Murphy was worth it... goodnight, Andreas Koch.

 

P.S.: *.ATA = ATASCII text (to read it on the A8), *.ASC = ASCII (to read it on the PC)...

GTIAFIX.ZIP

Edited by CharlieChaplin
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And err,

 

here is Jiri`s text for those that want to read it here on the forum. Think Jiri mentions some Gr.8 pics in the text, if I find them, I am gonna upload them here (but not tonight, maybe tomorrow or the day after tomorrow)... -Andreas Koch.

 

-----------------------------

 

 

CORRECTING GTIA-MODES & VIDEO OUTPUT

====================================

(By Jiri Bernasek - BEWESOFT)

 

After many years of using an 800XL, I decided to buy a second Atari 8-bit computer (for a kind of software-testing). I got the last version Atari 800XE, but unfortunately, the displaying on TV wasn't fully OK. There were two problems, that I already came across at some computer-meetings, but now I had a chance to examine it a bit deeper. Finally I've found a way to correct both the problems. If you've the same problems - keep reading, the full documentation is coming!

 

The first problem is bad displaying of so called "GTIA modes" (GRAPHICS 9, 10, and 11 in Basic), that occurs probably on all these last XE's made in China. There's a bug inside the GTIA chip, mixing bright dots or vertical lines into 16-shade graphics (mostly new demos). If you don't know how your computer display these modes, just type (in Basic of course):

 

10 GRAPHICS 9:FOR X=0 TO 15:COLOR X:PLOT X,0:DRAWTO X,64:NEXT X

20 GOTO 20

RUN

 

You'll see a square, black at the left side, grey in the middle, and white at the right. If the brightness is just increasing from left to right (step-by-step), then your computer is OK, and you needn't to read the following part of this text. But when there are white vertical lines (mostly in the left part of the square), then your GTIA is bad. The best solution in this case would be to replace your GTIA with correct one, but this is mostly impossible (unless you have another broken XL/XE under table).

 

The upgrade described below will help without of replacing GTIA - you'll need only five cheap chips (available at every electronics' shop), and a few even cheaper things like some wires etc. The displaying will NOT be 100% perfect (still), but the most awful effects disappear, so at the first sight the screen will be OK. The described upgrade does correct the brightness of pixels (GRAPHICS 9 and 10), but not the color (GRAPHICS 10 and 11) - that's not so simple.

In the other hand, it affects the PMG graphics a little - on moving objects (over GTIA modes) there's almost nothing strange, but stable PM objects may look a bit "flat" (pixel-pairs linked together). When there's a fine high density text in the PMG (it happens almost never, but still it's possible), it might be unreadable - that's why the upgrade allows you to install a disable switch. Graphics modes other than 9 and 10 are not affected.

 

To make the expansion yourself, you'll need a few components from an electronics' shop, and also some fine tools, a good soldering iron, a bit of experience with precise electronics work, and quite a bit of patience. So, if you're not experienced with the soldering iron and complicated Printed Circuit Boards, better ask a friend for help. The author of this text is not responsible for any damage caused by incorrect installation of the upgrade, or improper handling of tools and components!

 

So, what you'll need: 74HCT00, 74HCT74, 74HCT75, 74HCT86, 74HCT138, Resistor 10 kOhm, Capacitor 100 nF, a small switch (optional), piece of an universal board (70x28mm), 1-2 metres of insulated thin wire, and a few centimetres of non-insulated thick wire (diameter about 1-1.5 mm).

 

If you can't get the 74HCT... chips, you may also use the classic 74LS... (These chips only "eat" more current, the function is the same. Also 74ALS... are possible, and even 74HC... might work, but that's not sure. Old 74... and 74S... types needs quite too much current.) But the 74HCT... are probably the best, and are not more expensive than the others (around here). There are no special requirements about the resistor and capacitor - almost any small-size components should be OK.

The board should be a kind of laboratory-type: with holes in a square raster of 2.5x2.5mm, each with an insulated soldering point around. You'll need a piece of 28x11 points. (It's also possible to make the upgrade without of a board, but this would be much more difficult, and such expansions are also easier to damage).

The switch (optional) should be a small type (one way ON-OFF is enough), suitable for montage into back panel of the computer.

 

The first step is preparing of the upgrade board, which is shown at figure 1. Cut the universal board to correct size, and insert the components, as shown (the chips, resistor, capacitor, and three pieces of insulated thin wire). Solder the leads of each component (at the other side), and cut off the unnecessary protruding wires. Then, make all the shown connections on solder side. You may use a thin wire (non-insulated, soldered to the board), but it's also possible to link the points only with the solder. Leave the numbered points free - you'll solder them later. All wires and other metal parts (on the components side) must be hidden under the level of chip covers. At the end, make the two "legs" for fixing the board in its place. Take about a centimetre of thick wire, bend it to right angle, and put it onto the solder side of the board, so that one half may be soldered onto a few soldering points on board, and the second half is protruding about 5mm above. Then check twice, that everything is OK.

 

Note that the 74HCT... chips are electrostatic sensitive devices, as well as the chips inside your computer. You should solder them with a good soldering iron - NOT the simple transformator-based devices (with the tip of bent thick wire). It's best to connect the ground point of a board you're working on together with soldering iron and your hand with a wire, to avoid an electrostatic discharge - or at least touch the ground point (with hand and soldering iron) every time you're going to continue the work after a pause. Don't wear clothes of artifical materials, and don't move too much on a PVC floor in your room. The chips might be also damaged by heat - so better don't solder for too long time on the same chip (when the case become hot, you should stop). If you'll ignore these advices, the chips may be damaged (it's possible that you'll be successfull 99 times, but still there's the danger that 100th time you'll destroy a friend's computer).

 

Now, open your XE. Remove 4 screws at the bottom, lift the top cover, and carefully remove the keyboard. (You should disconnect it from a connector - be careful! These leads on flexible plastic are easy to damage, but almost impossible to repair.) Now remove another 7 screws around the edge of board, and lift it from the bottom cover. Open the metal cover, bending the 7 fixations to be straight.

Look at figure 2, and try to find the necessary points on the XE-board. (Hopefully it'll match the picture.) Cut carefully the shown 3 ways beside the 4050 chip close to GTIA (one of these ways is on the other side!). Carefully remove the loose metal pieces away from the board.

Now prepare 18 short pieces of insulated wire, and solder them to the numbered points 1-18 on the upgrade board. The length of wires should be adapted to the connection with points on XE-board, as shown on figure 2. (It's allways better to have the wires short.) If you want to install a disable-switch, solder another wire to the point 19 - this wire should be long enough to reach the future position of the switch (somewhere above the monitor connector).

Find the points "+" and "-" as shown ("+" is connected to ANTIC pin 21, and "-" to pin 1 - better check it), and try to put the upgrade into its place. Bend the "legs" a little, until it perfectly match the soldering points on the XE-board. Check the height - the "legs" must touch the corresponding points, but the upgrade board (the top of soldering) may not be more than 1mm above the ANTIC (that's the large chip below). The soldering on upgrade board may touch the ANTIC's plastic cover, but must be far enough from its leads. Then solder the "legs" to XE-board. (Good quality of soldering is required here, because these two points will hold the whole upgrade board in its place.)

Now connect all the wires to the corresponding points on the XE-board, as shown on figure 2. The long wire (19) for the switch will be connected later, now bend it away from the board.

 

Check everything twice, then connect a monitor (TV) and power supply (don't connect keyboard - it's easy to damage), and try to turn the computer (board) on. It should work, and you'll see "READY". If the screen stay black for a longer time than normally - switch off, and search for mistakes, bad quality soldering, or a short circuit.

When the computer works, try to connect a disk drive, and insert an auto-starting (boot) disk with a title screen in a 16-shade mode (GRAPHICS 9), or better HIP (contains both GRAPHICS 9, and 10). Turn on, and check the picture - it should be displayed correctly, without of these white dots and vertical lines (some very faint grey rests are sometimes possible - when a HIP picture uses more different colors). Try to carefully touch the ground (places for fixing the metal cover) with the long wire for disable-switch (if present) - it should return the function into the original state, so that you'll see the white dots and lines again.

 

When it all works, switch off, disconnect all the cables again, and install your disable-switch (if you're going to do so). Drill a corresponding hole to the back panel of (empty) bottom cover, and fix the switch in place. If you want to do also the modification of video output (described later), do it now (or at the begin).

Take the metal cover, put it back onto the board, and check that everything is OK. The wire for disable-switch should lead out of the cover somewhere beside the modulator (the small metal box with TV output), and it must be free - not pressed under the cover. Looking through the ventilation holes, examine the position of upgrade - it should be about 1-2mm below the cover, and all wires and metal parts must be far enough (otherwise try to put a piece of insulation tape onto the cover). Bend the 7 points to fix the cover in its place. (It's allways better to return the shielding cover into your computer - when possible - and not to throw it out, as many authors of different expansions are advising. It seems to be senseless, but when you'll try to listen for example a radio receiver close to your (unshielded) computer - then you'll understand what's a radio interference...)

Now put the board into the bottom plastic cover (with the new switch), and fix it with the original 7 screws. Solder the wire from the expansion onto one end of the switch, and connect the other end to ground (the large metal areas on the board, connected to the shielding metal cover you've just installed). Add the keyboard carefully, and insert its leads into the connector. (The leads must perfectly match the contacts. While inserting it, hold the flat cable close to connector, and don't use sharp tools or nails.) Finally add the top cover, and fix it with the 4 screws. Check if everything works, and... It's finished!

 

Now, an additional information for more advanced guys is following. The basic idea behind this upgrade is that the bad GTIA chips are displaying the left half of each pixel correctly, and only the right half is bad (lower two bits ORed into higher bits). So, the upgrade just take the left half, and put it over right half.

The schematic diagram is shown on figure 3. The luminance goes out from GTIA in the form of 4 digital signals (4 bits). These signals are going through the 74HCT75, which is a D-type register, giving a direct input-to-output connection during the whole time of a clock pulse. This feature allows easy disabling of the upgrade just by keeping the clock inputs active. Note that only 3 signals are connected to the upgrade - the lowest bit (LUM0) needn't to be corrected (remember - in GRAPHICS 9 it's correct, and in GRAPHICS 10 it's allways zero).

The clock pulses (the first 1/4 of a pixel) are combined from OSC and Phi1. Because the GRAPHICS 10 pixels are moved to right, the Phi1 input must be inverted depending on the active mode. (In the corner of figure 3, you can examine different clock signals available in the computer. Phi2 may not be used here, because the delay between Phi1 and Phi2 is not stable enough - sometimes it might give false clock pulses.) When the highest two bits of PRIOR ($D01B) are the same (that's GRAPHICS 11, or no GTIA mode), or when the disable-switch is "ON", the clock signal is allways active, so that the 74HCT75 doesn't change the signals.

The 74HCT74 is a 2-bit register, making a copy of two highest bits in the PRIOR. The circuit around 74HCT138 just detects the moment of writing data to the address $D01B.

 

Unfortunately, the color signal may not be corrected in such a simple way, because it goes out from GTIA in the form of final PAL signal.

 

-----------------------

 

The second of the two problems mentioned at the begin was TV synchronization. As far as I know, this problem occurs on all XE's. Depending on the type of TV/monitor you're using, it may happen that the screen is "flying" a bit, or even goes into something like diagonal lines - mostly when the displayed picture is bright. On most TV/monitors it doesn't happen, but it seems that my TV is extremely sensitive for this problem...

The reason is inside the XE - the output signal is not fully correct. The worst case is with the video-signal on the DIN output, but also the "antenna" output is affected a bit. The monochrome signal (also available in the DIN connector) is OK, as well as all outputs from an XL-type computer.

 

To correct this problem, you need one resistor 220 Ohm, and one PNP transistor. (I used BC556, because it's easily available and cheap around here, but almost any universal PNP type should work.)

Open the computer (as described in the previous section), and look at the corner of XE-board, where is the TV modulator. As shown on figure 4, you should cut one way at the solder side, and then add the resistor and transistor. These components should be soldered onto the terminals of modulator, and connected with a wire to the other end of the way you've cut - as shown on the figure 4. Note that the components may not protrude above the level of modulator's top side - because of the shielding cover. After testing the function, close the computer, as described above. (You may also cut one of the modulator legs instead of the way on PCB, and use the rest on XE-board instead of that long wire. But since the legs are quite thick and hard, you'll need a very good tools in this case.)

It should work without of problems. After installing this simple upgrade, the output signal from your XE is correct for all TV's you might meet at friends or computer parties, just like the output from an XL.

 

More information: The problem of original XE output is that the size of synchronization pulses is reduced. The monochrome output (correct) is copied from the XL. But the original resistors for mixing color into the composite video output were replaced with a different type of TV modulator in the XE. It's a bit better solution (the color signals are not going back to the monochrome output), but there's another transistor inside the modulator (see the figure), so that the whole signal is moved more than 0.5V down. After that, the synchronization pulses should run into negative voltages, but since this is impossible, the output stays on zero - and reduce the synchronization.

The added transistor is just moving the signal up (the mentioned >0.5V) before the modulator, so that the output is correct.

 

-----------------------

 

P.S. If you've got this text on disk, you'll find the figures in separate files - in the form of GRAPHICS 8 pictures.

[Yes, I got this text from a disk, will search for the pics...]

 

-EOF-

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"The basic idea behind this upgrade is that the bad GTIA chips are displaying the left half of each pixel correctly, and only the right half is bad (lower two bits ORed into higher bits). So, the upgrade just take the left half, and put it over right half."

 

So the Bewesoft's fix only processes the output luminance signal, that's why it cannot fix the color. Well, this is fixing effects, while we're speaking of fixing causes

 

@candle: nah, nobody important is nobody. That was a new for every GTIA specialist, electron, pavros... so, it simply went unnoticed. And, it seems, rightly, as it doesn't really fix anything.

Edited by drac030
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Apparently it's only the chip at fault in these machines.

 

From what I can gather, this mod latches outgoing GTIA data and repeats it on the second half of a machine cycle if PRIOR has a setting of $40. Don't think it does anything for the other 2 modes since they support variable colour, which can't be buffered.

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@philsan: there were two known methonds of fixing the defective GTIA so far:

 

1. to replace the chip (no other mods needed)

 

2. the one mentioned by rdemming (= to install VBXE)

 

Simius is experimenting with adding a mod to a defective GTIA so that the display gets fixed without chip replacement. The difference to the Bewesoft's mod advertised here is (to my understanding) this:

 

1. Bewesoft's mod modifies the luminance display signal going out of the GTIA. So, the GTIA still generates faulty display signal, but an external circuitry corrects it. This way gr.9 gets fixed but other modes (especially gr. 10 and gr. 11) remain faulty.

 

2. Simius' circuitry is trying to adjust signals going between ANTIC and GTIA, so that the GTIA could generate correct display signal. This way all "multicolor" modes are fixed.

 

The results are very promising. The only problem seems to be a lack of defective GTIAs for testing - it seems that they all have been replaced by last 20 years, and went into the trashcan.

Edited by drac030
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Years and years ago I found 'by accident' another fix for this GTIA problem.

 

It did work on about 50% of my bad-gtia XE's. On the other 50% it did nothing. Some bad GTIA xe's in my collection do have 'flashing' wrong GTIA pixels. They do some flickering all the time, and some of the grayscale "colors" are defect.

 

These are the ones that were easy to fix. I only used 3 resistors. That was all! I published this solution in one of the "Pokey magazin"

 

On the other 50% defect GTIA computers there are no flashing pixels, but the grayscale 'colors' are defect. Those GTIA's were not 'fixable' by my easy-fix with 3 resistors.

 

Someone (I think it ws Fox-1) told me that my solution could not be very healthy for the atari... I can not translate what he told me in English... too complicated for me.

 

If you like I could search for that fix again... but at your own risk.

 

For me was the easiest way: simply replace the GTIA. I ordered a large stack of PAL GTIA chips and replaced all the bad ones. But I'm still interested in that TTL solution described in this thread, because I still have a lot of BAD-GTIA XE's here...

 

Marius

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Of course, you can.

 

We collect now pre-orders for PCB for this mod. Prospective cost about 2-3$/pcs + 3$ shipment, depending order quantity (PCB only, without components nor assembly). Payment preferably by PayPal. Currently we've pre-orders for about 25pcs. PCB is small (55x22mm) and easy - 2 standard logic HCMOS SMD and a few of RC.

Edited by Simius
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On the Nomam 2010 fixed HardwareDoc a 800XE with the mod and found a mistake in the wiring diagram. The wires at the Antic Pin 2 and 3 are mixed up.

Look at the picture to the black and white wires. The mod runs ferfect, thanks.

 

BigBen

post-4842-12722320406_thumb.jpg

Edited by BigBen
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  • 1 year later...
Are there plans to decap the buggy Chinese GTIAs found in European 800XEs to see what is causing the GTIA modes bug?

 

We might try, but unless they made a completely new layout, chances that we won't see anything. Most of these chip bugs require probing and physical analysis. Visual inspection is usually not enough to find the culprit (Say, imagine a board made with a trace too thin, or with too much impurities in the conducting material). Does this bug produce a consistent and constant, or more an erratic behavior?

 

But it seems the bug can be partly fixed using some extra hardware as described in this thread.

 

We are considering if it is worth to decap one of those buggy GTIA chips. I am not familiar with the bug, and I assume that the most relevant info about it, is present in the mentioned thread at atariarea polish forum. Tried to use web translators, but those translators are still very far from being perfect. Would be nice if some of the polish guys could give us a small english resume of the topic. Some of the relevant questions are:

 

- It affects GTIA modes only?

- What exactly is the behavior? I understand that the second color clock for each pixel on GTIA modes is corrupted. But exactly in which way?

- The bug is more or less constant, or it is more an erratic behavior?

- If I understand the fix correctly, it delays the ANx signals by (about) half color clock. But there is another LA trace capture showing negative edge trigerred flops?

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I haven't seen or been able to test against a faulty GTIA myself, but I received a report on a system that was failing one of Acid800's GTIA collision tests that was later determined to have such a chip:

 

http://www.atari.org.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8190&p=2

 

This implies that the problem is pretty early in the pipeline, early enough to affect the mode 10 path into the priority logic.

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