31 replies to this topic

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

Hi guys

I'm putting together a feature on why the Lynx had so many cracking arcade ports and I'm having difficulty tracking the above down. Any ideas where they might be?

[CRV]

As of last year, it would appear Williamson was working as "the head of the advanced tools and technology department at High Voltage Software."

[The_Laird]

Should be an excellent article, just the kind of thing RG needs!

Somebody beat it me too it on the first name but I will see what I can turn up on the second man.

[The_Laird]

Would also be cool if you could cover something about the Atari Games/Tengen and Atari Corp agreement over game conversions and how it actually wasn't expolited as much as it could have been (especially with all the unreleased conversions they had planned) I may be able to help you in this area if you need it and know somebody who may be able to provide some documents etc.

Anything I can do to help let me know as I have a great knowledge on the unreleased conversions too and have a couple of protos I could loan you for the purpose of the article if needed.

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

The_Laird, on Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:27 PM, said:

Would also be cool if you could cover something about the Atari Games/Tengen and Atari Corp agreement over game conversions and how it actually wasn't expolited as much as it could have been (especially with all the unreleased conversions they had planned) I may be able to help you in this area if you need it and know somebody who may be able to provide some documents etc.

Anything I can do to help let me know as I have a great knowledge on the unreleased conversions too and have a couple of protos I could loan you for the purpose of the article if needed.

But I thought you hated Retro Gamer

Seriously though that would be really handy. I was looking at just doing a straight, here's the conversions and this is why they're so good, but it sounds like you have some cool information that would add a bit more meat to it so to speak.

[The_Laird]

Darran@Retro Gamer, on Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:56 PM, said:

The_Laird, on Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:27 PM, said:

Would also be cool if you could cover something about the Atari Games/Tengen and Atari Corp agreement over game conversions and how it actually wasn't expolited as much as it could have been (especially with all the unreleased conversions they had planned) I may be able to help you in this area if you need it and know somebody who may be able to provide some documents etc.

Anything I can do to help let me know as I have a great knowledge on the unreleased conversions too and have a couple of protos I could loan you for the purpose of the article if needed.

But I thought you hated Retro Gamer

Seriously though that would be really handy. I was looking at just doing a straight, here's the conversions and this is why they're so good, but it sounds like you have some cool information that would add a bit more meat to it so to speak.

If I hated RG I wouldn't have the latest issue, I just want more Atari coverage (positive would be nice too )

I have a HELL OF ALOT of knowledge I could give you and don't expect anything in return, I will drop you a PM if that ok Darran.

Sorry if we got off on a wrong foot recently, I just have the interests of the community at my heart and anything like this is good news for me and I am willing to help in any way possible.

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

Okay I have Scott Williamson now

So that's the programmers of
Xenophobe
Klax
Toki and Road Blasters
Ms Pac-Man, Rampart and Chequered Flag

Not bad for a few nights of work

[PFG 9000]

This article will rock, I can't wait to read it!

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

More updates.
I now have the coder for Stun runner (which will be revealed in the article)
I'm in talk with the person in charge of Lynx developer support, who's revealing a lot of interesting stuff.
I'll hopefully have access to the coder behind Hard Driving and Steel Talons
Oh and potential news on a Sega port of Shinobi

Needless to say, all this additional stuff I've been finding means the article may be pushed back a month, it depends on how quickly answers come back to me.

[isaacwierzbicki]

my dad is pete wierzbicki if you want to contact him, I can tell him. He curently was working at EA Sports.

Edited by isaacwierzbicki, Wed May 5, 2010 9:13 PM.

[solidcorp]

Did this article ever get published? I never got a chance to see it.

D. Scott Williamson

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

A hard drive crash put me massively behind on this. Over a year in fact! I've managed to find most of the content (although I've lost Eric Ginner's details) but rest assured I'm back on course to make this the best damned feature on the arcade ports of the Atari Lynx that you ever did see.

[Emehr]

The arcade ports are one of the many shining aspects of the Lynx. I look forward to the article.

[Darran@Retro Gamer]

Emehr, on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:39 AM, said:

The arcade ports are one of the many shining aspects of the Lynx. I look forward to the article.

Hopefully you won't be disappointed. I've got some wonderful stuff from Jerome Strach explaining the general process of porting an arcade game to the Lynx, while Mr Williamson has given me some ridiculously comprehensive techy stuff about the Lynx's hardware capabilities and why it was so well suited to arcade ports. This has taken a very long time to put together and it's been a slow and laborious process (not helped by losing data) but it's finally coming together. Hopefully it will do the Lynx justice, I think it will.

[roland p]

Sounds like it's going to be a very good article! I'm looking forward to it!

[solidcorp]

Which ports did you like and why?

[Emehr]

solidcorp, on Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:47 PM, said:

Which ports did you like and why?

There's something about the Lynx...I don't know if it's the hardware or the talented programmers or both, but arcade ports on the Lynx look and sound like perfect little miniaturized versions of their arcade counterparts. The NES had arcade ports, sure, but they always looked stretched out or had desaturated colors or imperfect control. Galaga and Xevious are pretty good, though. But I digress. Anyway, my favorite Lynx arcade ports...

Xybots and STUN Runner are the first two to pop into my mind. I only played both games a handful of times in the arcades but they had a lasting impression. When the Lynx came out I saw that it had versions of both and that did it for me (not to mention the excellent Warbirds, which is what originally sold me on the Lynx).

I loved Xybots because it reminded me so much of Berzerk (getting taunted by robots which you must destroy in a mazelike setting). The character animations and color palette were captured perfectly on the Lynx as was the excellent music. The robot voices are the only thing I miss in the conversion.

STUN Runner (which I understand you programmed, nice!) also captures the feel of the arcade perfectly. I don't even think polygonal graphics would have made much of a difference here visually (besides complicating the rendering, I'm sure). The Lynx resolution is so low that any rendered polys probably wouldn't have looked much different. And the game probably would have played slowly to boot. Quick question: did you ever consider using polygons during development? If so, did you develop any playable test code?

Steel Talons is another ambitious but ultimately well-done port. I never played the arcade original but I got plenty of mileage on the Lynx version. Judging by screenshots of the arcade game I'd say the port was right-on visually. Even the frame rate is manageable once you tune into it. I think the only detriment is the color contrast. I think it could've been turned up just a notch.

Ninja Gaiden. I played this once in the arcade and many times on my Lynx. It gets tough at the last level but it's still a game I return to frequently.

Last but not least: Klax. I've never played the arcade version so I can't comment on the faithfulness of the port but this game is fantastic in every aspect.


Honorable mention goes to Roadblasters. Like Xybots and STUN Runner, it captures the look and feel of the arcade version perfectly. It's not a game I get into very often but I gotta mention that it's a great port.

(Hard Drivin' would've been on my favorite list if not for the control. I could live with the frame rate but the laggy controls hurt it. I loved the arcade game (how many driving games since have had a loop-de-loop? I count none!) and think it's great that the Lynx has a port. Unfortunately it's not very playable. )

I'm not so much into the classic arcade ports for the Lynx (Ms. Pac-Man, Joust, Robotron 2084). I'm sure they're well made but I prefer to enjoy those on my 7800.

[high voltage]

most games on the Lynx are actually of excellent quality.

[Agent X]

Darran@Retro Gamer, on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:57 AM, said:

Emehr, on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:39 AM, said:

The arcade ports are one of the many shining aspects of the Lynx. I look forward to the article.

Hopefully you won't be disappointed. I've got some wonderful stuff from Jerome Strach explaining the general process of porting an arcade game to the Lynx, while Mr Williamson has given me some ridiculously comprehensive techy stuff about the Lynx's hardware capabilities and why it was so well suited to arcade ports. This has taken a very long time to put together and it's been a slow and laborious process (not helped by losing data) but it's finally coming together. Hopefully it will do the Lynx justice, I think it will.

That's great! The Lynx has many outstanding arcade conversions, a few of which were even improved over the arcade originals. I'd love to hear from these games' programmers, and find out their experiences and the approaches they took in tackling some of these conversions. Judging from the quality of the games, there was obviously some passion and talent involved.

Good luck with your article!

[Nuclear Pacman]

solidcorp, on Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:47 PM, said:

Which ports did you like and why?

First off, to me, the Lynx was the console of arcade ports, it just had most every great arcade game that I always wanted to have. Ok, maybe what I mean is that I wanted these arcade games done right, not half-assed, and I knew I could count on Atari to do that for me. I remember just drooling over screenshots in EGM and Gamepro. It certainly has it's own great original titles like Slime World, Checkered Flag and Warbirds, but it's always been the Arcade ports that have endured the system to me, and I still enjoy them 20 years on. Was I too naive because I thought that this was an Atari machine, and of course Atari would have the best ports of their games on an Atari? With that out of the way and to try and answer this question of yours and in no particular order:

-Roadblasters: I know you said you wrote this game. It is absolutely a spot on translation. I mean, this thing has nothing lost from the yoke controller in the arcade, the controls are spot on perfect. The voice is perfect, and there are some little differences maybe in weapon sound effects, but with the Nitro Booster you get that same chaotic rush sensation due to a fantastic sense of speed and the sound effects of the booster itself. Nitro was always my favorite 'weapon' but just like in the arcade, you die a split second after you use it, but its a great challenge. I love this game, it's not the greatest game ever or even my favorite on the Lynx probably, it's just an amazing translation. It's contemporary was probably the Genesis version which is pretty good too.

-Xenophobe: Everybody wanted this game or atleast talked about it in my circle of friends. We loved playing it in the arcade, and the 3 other guys in my high school that got Lynx's all bought this game so we could lynx-up. I can't think of a more well rounded game to showcase all of the Lynx capabilities, it's pretty to look at, it's challenging, and the Lynx-up was perfectly suited to this game. Yeah, there were some enhancements like adding the ability to play as a Snotterpillar, and the Fire Extinguisher 'weapon', but I don't know if I'd go so far to say its better than the arcade, as it's missing some of the little things you could do in the arcade, mostly in the interactions with the background. Here again though, this had a proprietary controller that translated perfectly to the Lynx, I never had problems with the controls.

-Robotron: The best version IMHO. This is even better than the 7800 version. The graphics are better and the audio is absolutely the best. The control scheme is genius, because unlike almost any other dual joystick game translated to home console, this version is the only one I can think of to do it correctly, using the A/B to cycle the directions 1/8th at a time.

-Joust: Same as Robotron, perfect graphics and audio, and actually this one is miles better in those departments over the 7800 version. This game is arcade perfect from what I can tell, and it's freaking hard too, just like the arcade. No extras, no bonus levels, just a pure and perfect port. Nothing wrong with that.

APB: I only got to play this in the arcade a few times, and it left a big impression on me. I was always happy to have this on the Lynx, and it's kind of amazing to me the complexity of this game, and it was ported not nearly perfect at all, but all the elements are there. The biggest let down I guess is the field of view is tiny compared to the arcade version, which makes knowing where you are and where you should go very difficult. It's missing the interrogation beatdown bonus screen, but what it has going for it are some very accurate sprites, a few of the voice samples, and a seemingly endless supply of APB's to track down, this game seems to go on forever and I've never come close to finishing it, if that's even possible. If I had to really complain I'd say the controls give me cramps, because holding down the Siren button too much kinda sucks when you're also mashing the accelerator at the same time with the same thumb. Here's a good example of how the Lynx could have used a shoulder button or side buttons for flexibility.

Pac-Land: Even if a person didn't like this game, which is likely, objectively you'd have to admit that there is nothing wrong with this port in any category. Personally I like the game, always have, but I also think it's kind of boring too. Just on a technical level this thing appears to me in all circumstances to be perfect, like Joust perfect.

Xybots: C'mon, this is an ambitious game and they pulled it off with flying colors. This is another one that I played only a handful of times in the arcade, and I do think the Lynx version is graphically superb. The sound loops are repetitive on the Lynx, did the arcade have such a limited soundtrack? I would say the Lynx version isn't nearly as action packed either, meaning there are far fewer enemies to fight and they are less aggressive. I finished this game quite easily on the Lynx, all 50 levels. It has all the basics of the arcade game though, just less. Great Lynx-Up game too which I've been fortunate to play.

Klax: Best version period. Can you believe the audio in this game? From the little fart noise the tiles make to the girl's voice, this game is a treat.

[108 Stars]

As much as I love the Lynx, I never met a person who cared for or even knew of any of those games back in the day.

I really like to read this stuff, because it always seems so strange to me how different systems were perceived or taken notice of in different places. Multiple people buying a Lynx because of a game like Xenophobe, let alone people in 1989 caring for Robotron and Joust... just incredible.

For me all these games are practically new, I never bothered even to try them until 2 years ago. And today I am surprised to how much I can enjoy the simplicity of such games. I like modern games, but nowadays I can enjoy the contrast. I bet even if I had seen Robotron and the likes in 1989, I would have thrown them away to play Super Mario Land.

Edited by 108 Stars, Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:08 PM.

[solidcorp]

108 Stars, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:04 PM, said:

As much as I love the Lynx, I never met a person who cared for or even knew of any of those games back in the day.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but if you were born in February 1981 as your profile says, then you'd have been six years old when RoadBlasters was released in 1987. That's pretty far "back in the day", you and presumably your friends were in first grade at the time which may explain your perspective (which is perfectly valid).

Coin op was huge into the late 80's, arcade games like APB, Robotron, PacLand, Hydra, Shinobi, Joust, Xenophobe, RoadBlasters, S.T.U.N. Runner, Toki, ... were hot and you couldn't play anything like them at home. The Lynx with it's unlimited scalable color sprites and advanced sound was able to bring those games home at a quality never seen before - and it was a handheld!. There are still some games that even the Genesis and SNES still couldn't do and that was pretty exciting.

108 Stars, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:04 PM, said:

For me all these games are practically new, I never bothered even to try them until 2 years ago. And today I am surprised to how much I can enjoy the simplicity of such games. I like modern games, but nowadays I can enjoy the contrast. I bet even if I had seen Robotron and the likes in 1989, I would have thrown them away to play Super Mario Land.

Comparing coin op ports (which were originally designed to be 3 minute pay to play experiences) with the depth of a game like Super Mario Land made with almost unlimited resources at Nintendo by some of the most brilliant people ever to make video games is not exactly fair. I see where you are coming from and have to agree that the Lynx did not have any games, ports or original, that had that kind of depth and appeal, and that's a shame. Seriously, could you imagine a genuine Lynx Mario, Donkey Kong, or Metroid title? It would be astounding.

[Tangent] Back at Atari, a few of us pointed out to Sam Tramiel that Atari didn't have a killer app or a well developed character like Mario, Donkey Kong, and the later Sonic, and Bonk. We tried to come up with something but all the ideas were all obvious and lame. Looking back, I think the development department was short sighted too, fixated on the quick return on coin op licenses and trying to make projects on smaller scales. After all, until then they had been making games for the 2600 & 7800 which, due to their limitations, despite the difficulty in making a title, were small scale short term low budget developments. There was no one I recall having a grander vision for a license, or a desire to revolutionize game-play, or a strong desire to tell a story through a game. It was a great place to work at an exciting time, but looking back now with 20 years of game development experience I see so many ways we could have made it better.

[Atari_afternoon]

108 Stars, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:04 PM, said:

As much as I love the Lynx, I never met a person who cared for or even knew of any of those games back in the day.

I would say, main reason is, in Germany there have been too many too strict youth protection laws so the usual ice cream parlours, malls and pubs I knew as a child had a pinball machine or one of those helicopters or ponies for very young kids to ride and a pool table BUT no arcade games! In order to play arcade computer games you´d have to be 18 (or 16?) in order to be allowed to enter a special hall for it.
This must be very very different in UK/US. From what I can perceive there is no arcade gaming culture here
Here in a mall, I can never remember ever having seen any computer arcade games and kids standing around it.So in almost all instances I first played and saw "arcade" games on the Atari 2600 and the C64 and in no single instance on an dedicated arcade machine.
I think this is unfortunately Germany-specific

[108 Stars]

solidcorp, on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:20 AM, said:

Pardon me for pointing this out, but if you were born in February 1981 as your profile says, then you'd have been six years old when RoadBlasters was released in 1987. That's pretty far "back in the day", you and presumably your friends were in first grade at the time which may explain your perspective (which is perfectly valid).

Coin op was huge into the late 80's, arcade games like APB, Robotron, PacLand, Hydra, Shinobi, Joust, Xenophobe, RoadBlasters, S.T.U.N. Runner, Toki, ... were hot and you couldn't play anything like them at home. The Lynx with it's unlimited scalable color sprites and advanced sound was able to bring those games home at a quality never seen before - and it was a handheld!. There are still some games that even the Genesis and SNES still couldn't do and that was pretty exciting.

[Tangent] Back at Atari, a few of us pointed out to Sam Tramiel that Atari didn't have a killer app or a well developed character like Mario, Donkey Kong, and the later Sonic, and Bonk. We tried to come up with something but all the ideas were all obvious and lame. Looking back, I think the development department was short sighted too, fixated on the quick return on coin op licenses and trying to make projects on smaller scales. After all, until then they had been making games for the 2600 & 7800 which, due to their limitations, despite the difficulty in making a title, were small scale short term low budget developments. There was no one I recall having a grander vision for a license, or a desire to revolutionize game-play, or a strong desire to tell a story through a game. It was a great place to work at an exciting time, but looking back now with 20 years of game development experience I see so many ways we could have made it better.

Just to make one thing clear: I do enjoy your games such as Roadblasters or STUN Runner, and even more oldschool arcade games like Robotron and Joust. Please don´t think otherwise. And I find it awesome to have devs from back in the day here at AA.

You and atari_afternoon have both pointed out reasons why games like these did not attract our attention back then. For one, we were in elementary school. And: It may be hard to imagine for a US-American, but there are no arcades in Germany. Arcade games are basically treated like one-armed bandits here. Law prohibits kids or teenagers from going to arcades like casinos. The only arcade games we ever saw were on vacation in other countries, or sometimes one would be standing in a Pizzeria or so.

All games we learned to know, we learned to know on consoles or homecomputers. You´d be surprised how many people don´t know tothis day that some of their favourite C64 games originally came from the arcade.

That said, my memories of games came from Atrari 2600 and C64. Joust and Robotron both exist for these platforms, but we rather played Pole Position, Ghostbusters, JungleHunt or Bobby goes Home. ^^

I do think that the NES in the US, and the GameBoy here (NES was not such a hit here at first) just brought us a new complexity in games. As you said, the depth of a Mario game was not reached by many (if any) Lynx games. But for us kids, once we had a taste of such games, this became what we expected from videogames. Our Ataris collected dust, and the Lynx offering ports of similar games (though vastly improved visually) failed to get our interest.

I agree with you that Metroid, Castlevania or Shinobi games on Lynx would have been awesome. I also know that it was a technical powerhouse. I am helping with Lynx homebrews nowadays too.
Today I can enjoy the simple arcade ports. Yet back in 1989, it was probably kind of missing the trend for young gamers. It just impacted an arcade-less country like Germany even heavier.

I do hope that we will still see some really deep game experiences on the Lynx though. That´s why I am helping doing pixel art for homebrew projects; what begins with small games may one day result in a worthy game in the style of maybe Castlevania on Lynx. It can be done, and hopefully it will happen eventually.

[solidcorp]

Wow, that explains a lot very clearly.
I hadn't realized you are in Germany. I'm sorry, my comments were indeed from the limited perspective of someone completely immersed in US game culture (Think Flynn's arcade in the original TRON movie). Thanks for replying as thoroughly and nicely as you did.

Oh, and thank you for your kind words regarding the titles I worked on too.