47 replies to this topic

[Mendon]

I'm not sure if anyone here has purchased Final Fight: Double Impact from PSN but if you are considering it, then BE ADVISED!!

First, here is the description for the game:
Final Fight™: Double Impact is a hard-hitting journey through Capcom history. This HD-filtered combo of Final Fight™ and Magic Sword has online co-op mode, remixed music, unlockables, and online leaderboards! In Final Fight™, the Mad Gear street gang has kidnapped Mayor Mike Haggar's daughter, Jessica. Refusing to give into their demands, Haggar - a former pro wrestler - sets out to rescue Jessica with the help of her boyfriend, a martial artist named Cody, and his friend, a modern-day ninja named Guy. Together, take back Metro City, one smashed face at a time. In Magic Sword, you are the Brave One, a warrior on a quest to defeat the demon Drokmar, who has cast the world to a lightless hell. Battle through the Dragon's Tower as you hone your skills with sword and magic and conquer the minions of evil. Rescue 8 heroic allies to aid you, but beware of chimera, orcs, dragons, trolls and monsters... all in the wait, hungry for blood.

Whats wrong?
First, nowhere in that description does it tell you that the game is online only. You HAVE to be online to even launch the game.... if you are offline, you get a "Error 80029516" message. Plus, you cannot launch a local co-op game without being connected to PSN... if PSN is down or your internet is down, the game cannot be played. Why a "Online Only" phrase wasn't added to the description is beyond belief.

Second, you cannot play FF on multiple PS3's as you can with other PSN games. Example: I have two PS3's connected, one in the living room (for the use of the wife-unit and for movie watching) and one in my gaming room. If I download a PSN game, say Pixel Junk Monsters for example, I can install it on both PS3's and both PS3's can play it anytime or at the same time. But not with Final Fight.... if you try to play it on one PS3 after its been launched on another PS3, you get a message something like "24 hours must elapse before this game can be launched". This is a big change from previous PSN games and again, has not been included in the game description.


I purchased the game and am posting the above as an advisory to others. The game can be really fun and enjoyable online, but I'm very unhappy with the lack of description for the game that didn't warn me of its limitations because I would not have purchased an Online Only game.


Mendon

Edited by Mendon, Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:55 AM.

[cimerians]

I bought it not knowing the above.

I'm pissed beyond reality right now.

Remember the "clock bug" that happened a few months back?

The scary thing is I could NOT play a bunch of CD based games OFFLINE.
I would love to see whats going on under the hood of our "lovable" PS3's and Sony's all too frequent firmware updates.

I may be DONE with downloadable games.

[cimerians]

Greed.

Check this out:

http://boards.ign.co...7/191330467/p1/

[Mendon]

Wow, I couldn't believe Capcom's response:

I'll try to be short. Yes, there is DRM. This was employed to combat the rampant "PSN Sharing" that has been going on over the last year. We're sorry that your family cannot play the game on their individual accounts (same console). This is a limitation of the Sony network. We are not committed to do this with all titles moving forward but the only way to evaluate impact was to try it with one title first.

To be honest, you could just log in as yourself and allow them to play. I understand there is a principle here, but we would appreciate your understanding of our position while doling out your criticism.

Either way, we appreciate you as a fan and I have mentioned your concern to the team.

Take care and sorry for the trouble,

First off, it is **NOT** a limitation of the Sony network, as proved by every previous PSN title, including Capcom titles such as Age of Booty.
Second, the sentence ending with ".... while doling out your criticism" is very flippant and really un-friendly customer service.

Like you, I've purchased and enjoyed many downloads on both XboxLive and PSN. But after experiencing the 'leap year bug" and now seeing how Sony & Capcom are dealing with this DRM issue, I'm seriously considering whether or not I'll be purchasing any future downloadable content.... whether a game or add-on.

It's bad enough that Sony and Capcom mislead me with their description of exactly what I was purchasing, but for Capcom to come off so flippant and rude escalates this issue immensely. At the moment, Capcom can take Marvel vs Capcom 3 and shove it!!

Mendon


P.S. I'm really curious if the Xbox360 version is also "Online Only".

[chrisbid]

Mendon, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:24 AM, said:

P.S. I'm really curious if the Xbox360 version is also "Online Only".

i would guess not, xbox live arcade games cannot be shared, so there would be no need to make a game online only

[xenomorpher]

chrisbid, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:51 AM, said:

Mendon, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:24 AM, said:

P.S. I'm really curious if the Xbox360 version is also "Online Only".

i would guess not, xbox live arcade games cannot be shared, so there would be no need to make a game online only

I bought a few arcade titles, Contra and Smash TV to name a couple, when I first got my 360 years ago and I have to connect to LIVE to play them. They show up as trial versions even though my gamertag has achievements unlocked for some of the games. Whenever I connect they show up, but a day later I think I have to sign back in. Kind of annoying since I don't use LIVE. So having to sign in for that wouldn't surprise me.

[moycon]

xenomorpher, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:23 AM, said:

I bought a few arcade titles, Contra and Smash TV to name a couple, when I first got my 360 years ago and I have to connect to LIVE to play them. They show up as trial versions even though my gamertag has achievements unlocked for some of the games. Whenever I connect they show up, but a day later I think I have to sign back in. Kind of annoying since I don't use LIVE. So having to sign in for that wouldn't surprise me.

That's a different problem than what these guys are discussing.
Sounds like you need to tie the licenses to your current 360 xenomorpher.
I'm guessing you sent the 360 in for repairs?
If you can get your 360 online one time, you can do this and it should correct that issue.
If you go to http://www.xbox.com/...ive/default.htm, sign in, and then put your mouse over the Support link, it will drop down a menu. Pick "license transfer" and follow the instructions. You can also call support and ask them to do it, but for some reason it takes like 48 hours that way. PM me if you need more details.

Jeese what a shitty thing to do. You can't play the game on another console, even if you are logged in the network!? Others can't play the game even on the console you made the initial purchase on? No way is that a problem with the Sony network or the PS3. That's worse than how MS has it set up on Live, and I think the way they do it leaves a lot to be desired. I hope others don't follow suit. I'd stop buying if they did. What forum were you getting that information from Mendon? Maybe we should leave some messages of our own?

[Mord]

Mendon, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:50 AM, said:

Whats wrong?
First, nowhere in that description does it tell you that the game is online only. You HAVE to be online to even launch the game.... if you are offline, you get a "Error 80029516" message. Plus, you cannot launch a local co-op game without being connected to PSN... if PSN is down or your internet is down, the game cannot be played. Why a "Online Only" phrase wasn't added to the description is beyond belief.

Interesting. Perhaps I was too generous in my assumption in other rants that the console market would wait until at least next generation before trying to implement always-online shit like ubisoft and their PC games?

[Mendon]

moycon, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:12 AM, said:

What forum were you getting that information from Mendon? Maybe we should leave some messages of our own?

The thread in the official PS Forums is located HERE. Cimerians put a link to IGN within his post. There are threads in the Kotaku and Joystiq forums also (don't have links at the moment.

I knew nothing about the problem until I went to play the game last night and couldn't as my internet was down. After trying to get the game running for several hours and getting nothing but an error message, I gave up. I went online this morning to see if the problem was somehow only related to my set-up and discovered all the bitching going on and the extent of this DRM issue.


Mendon

[cimerians]

The response from Capcom is unacceptable.

Hopefully someone will sue them for this as this should not be an online only game (which most people are led to beleive on purchase) to which it is. I saw nothing on the purchase page that said you are required to have an internet connection to play the game.

[cimerians]

I highly recommend letting Capcom know what you think:

http://shop.capcom.c...e.CapcomSupport


It only takes a few minutes. Click on ASK A QUESTION at the top of the page. You can type your complaint on the next screen and submit (you can select Final Fight from the drop down list), and then it will ask you to register before taking you to your inbox where you will see your sent email to them.

I just sent in my complaint and told them I want my money back.

I threatened them pretty good. Hopefully all of us....even those of us here who didnt by the game will go there and show them we won't accept this shit.

[HammR25]

Microsoft does this with all games in their Indie section. You have to be logged in to Xbox Live to play them.

I wonder if a person can play this game on an Xbox console that it's not registered to as long as the person who bought it is logged in.

[xenomorpher]

moycon, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:12 AM, said:

xenomorpher, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:23 AM, said:

I bought a few arcade titles, Contra and Smash TV to name a couple, when I first got my 360 years ago and I have to connect to LIVE to play them. They show up as trial versions even though my gamertag has achievements unlocked for some of the games. Whenever I connect they show up, but a day later I think I have to sign back in. Kind of annoying since I don't use LIVE. So having to sign in for that wouldn't surprise me.

That's a different problem than what these guys are discussing.
Sounds like you need to tie the licenses to your current 360 xenomorpher.
I'm guessing you sent the 360 in for repairs?
If you can get your 360 online one time, you can do this and it should correct that issue.
If you go to http://www.xbox.com/...ive/default.htm, sign in, and then put your mouse over the Support link, it will drop down a menu. Pick "license transfer" and follow the instructions. You can also call support and ask them to do it, but for some reason it takes like 48 hours that way. PM me if you need more details.

I followed the steps and I got a message that said that the licenses are already tied to my 360 and that no further action is required. I went to my Game Library tab and for the heck of it unplugged my network cable and all of the arcade games (except for Hexic and Aegis Wing which are free) all have Arcade Game Trial under them. Not a huge deal since I don't honestly play them really, but kind of stinks. Thank you for the help though. I did have it sent in twice before and was told the motherboard will be replaced. I still wonder why it's doing this, oh well. Maybe if I try re-downloading them. In any case not being able to play downloaded games offline stinks no matter what the system. This is why I prefer physical copies for everything.

Edited by xenomorpher, Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:05 PM.

[moycon]

xenomorpher, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:01 PM, said:

I still wonder why it's doing this, oh well. Maybe if I try re-downloading them. In any case not being able to play downloaded games offline stinks no matter what the system. This is why I prefer physical copies for everything.

After the license has been tied you have to re-download each game. Since they are already on your console, it should only take a couple seconds per game. It must only need a little bit of the actual download.

[moycon]

cimerians, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:53 PM, said:

I highly recommend letting Capcom know what you think:

http://shop.capcom.c...e.CapcomSupport

Excellent. This was exactly what I was looking for. You can bet I'll send them a message. The more people the better.

Please let me know when you patch the ridiculous DRM you placed on Final Fight that requires a person has an active internet connection to play the game they purchased. I've spent a lot of $$ on Capcom games over the years, never shared a PSN game in my life and I don't always have an internet connection available. Don't punish your loyal fans or you may find you no longer have any. The very least you could do is let people know ahead of time so they could choose whether to support this.

[HammR25]

I sent them a message telling them I was glad I'd heard about the online thing before I bought the game so I didn't waste my money.

[Mendon]

I sent my complaint to Capcom, plus filed a complaint with Sony demanding a refund.

I won't hold my breath awaiting Sony to send me a $10 check/credit as I'm sure I'll receive the usual "No Refunds" response. But at least I let both companies know of my total displeasure and that if Final Fight Double Impact is a sample of future downloadable game releases on PSN that I will be making NO FUTURE PURCHASES OF ANY KIND.


Mendon

[cimerians]

Mendon, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:43 PM, said:

I sent my complaint to Capcom, plus filed a complaint with Sony demanding a refund.

I won't hold my breath awaiting Sony to send me a $10 check/credit as I'm sure I'll receive the usual "No Refunds" response. But at least I let both companies know of my total displeasure and that if Final Fight Double Impact is a sample of future downloadable game releases on PSN that I will be making NO FUTURE PURCHASES OF ANY KIND.


Mendon

Thats a good idea.

Sony Support for anyone needs it:
http://us.playstation.com/support/ask/

I did the same, asked for a refund. I don't think I'll be getting any response either but hopefully enough people spam Capcom or Sony (or both) for them to make a change.

[DaytonaUSA]

cimerians, on Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:53 PM, said:

I highly recommend letting Capcom know what you think:

http://shop.capcom.c...e.CapcomSupport


It only takes a few minutes. Click on ASK A QUESTION at the top of the page. You can type your complaint on the next screen and submit (you can select Final Fight from the drop down list), and then it will ask you to register before taking you to your inbox where you will see your sent email to them.

I just sent in my complaint and told them I want my money back.

I threatened them pretty good. Hopefully all of us....even those of us here who didnt by the game will go there and show them we won't accept this shit.

I wrote them an email yesterday actually. This is unacceptable. One day when PSN isn't available for the PS3, then my game won't work? A single player game? Screw that! As a collector, this is my worst nightmare when it comes to gaming.

[cimerians]

DaytonaUSA, on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:00 AM, said:

I wrote them an email yesterday actually. This is unacceptable. One day when PSN isn't available for the PS3, then my game won't work? A single player game? Screw that! As a collector, this is my worst nightmare when it comes to gaming.

I know. I got a response from Sony saying they do not do refunds and they apologized.

Capcom however has not responded at all.

It really is a worst nightmare. I will not buy games like this, problem is they HAVE to list this in the discription.

[Mord]

cimerians, on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:45 AM, said:

DaytonaUSA, on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:00 AM, said:

I wrote them an email yesterday actually. This is unacceptable. One day when PSN isn't available for the PS3, then my game won't work? A single player game? Screw that! As a collector, this is my worst nightmare when it comes to gaming.

I know. I got a response from Sony saying they do not do refunds and they apologized.

Capcom however has not responded at all.

It really is a worst nightmare. I will not buy games like this, problem is they HAVE to list this in the discription.

I'd recommend responding to them once more and telling them "If you don't accept refunds, you should make sure your publishers aren't creating their own rules for products YOU sell without warning YOUR customers that the purchase is not the same as all other products YOU sell in YOUR store."

[Reaperman]

here's a copy of my capcom message.
This whole situation stinks. I bet I've personally spent $500+ on capcom-branded products over the years. Probably well on the + side of it considering all the arcade sticks, fighting games, action figures...

Quote

I'm writing to inform Capcom that I'm extremely unhappy with their DRM-related choices on Final Fight: Double Impact for PS3. Not only will it give me trouble sharing between my hosehold users/ps3's, I won't be able to play it at all offline, or once psn moves from ps3 support in a few years. On top of that, failing to mention this in the description prior to purchase is simply a filthy business tactic.

If Capcom continues down this path I don't think we'll be able to do business anymore, which is a shame since I've been purchasing capcom titles for decades. I suppose I will simply have to enjoy my SNES or GBA copy of final fight, and if this continues I will purchase my all of my future capcom titles used.

Edited by Reaperman, Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:06 AM.

[DaytonaUSA]

(650) 350-6700 for Capcom customer support (found this number... it was quite hidden).

Unleash hell, boys.

[moycon]

Mord, on Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:51 AM, said:

I'd recommend responding to them once more and telling them "If you don't accept refunds, you should make sure your publishers aren't creating their own rules for products YOU sell without warning YOUR customers that the purchase is not the same as all other products YOU sell in YOUR store."

Agreed. This is complete BS.
Screw calling Capcom, call a lawyer and hint at a possible class action lawsuit you have for them, see if they'll bite.
I find it hard to believe there isn't one in the works.
I don't encourage frivolous lawsuits, but for folks who took their PS3 to someones house to download this game because they themselves don't have an internet connection and then got back to their house. If there was no disclaimer at all about needing an internet connection, they just got completely RIPPED OFF.

Sorry we don't give refunds when we rip you off isn't going to cut it.

[cimerians]

This is the official response I got from Sony. I have been on a rampage with them back and forth. Sending them screenshots and quotes to prove whats happening.

Quote

Thank you for writing me again George regarding your refund request for Final Fight: Double Impact purchased on PlayStation®Network.

While I empathize with your situation, your request for refund still cannot be processed. While in the description for the game there is no mention of needing Internet, the fact that you purchased the game online would signify a general understanding that there is a greater likelihood that you will need Internet to play the software for that game.

Unbelievable.