49 replies to this topic

[opcode]

Hi,

Just curious to see how much interest there would be for brand new Atari 2600/7800 cartridge shells.
As perhaps some of you know, I own a mold for ColecoVision cases that I use with my ColecoVision games. Over the years I have supplied cases for 3rd parties too, as my mold has movable pieces that allow me to replace my logo with something else, or no logo at all.
I am now considering to produce a mold for 2600/7800 cartridges (in Brazil), but taking into account that (so far) I have no games for the 7800 to justify the investment, I would like to check with you guys if there would be enough interest for that.
I haven't actually started anything yet, but here is what I am planning: case should be an exact copy of what is now known as Atari C2 type, or "free sliding circuit board protector". I discussed that with Mitch and both of us agreed about that version being the originally planned case for the 7800, before Atari CORP went the cheap way (I am waiting confirmation from Curt about that). The second thing is that I am expecting the cases to sell for less than $2 each, perhaps less once I have recouped my money.
So how about that?

Eduardo

[GroovyBee]

Sounds good. Will you be shipping to the UK? If so, I'd be interested.

[cd-w]

I would definitely be interested also.

Chris

[opcode]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:14 AM, said:

Sounds good. Will you be shipping to the UK? If so, I'd be interested.

Sure, why not.

BTW, in order to go ahead I think I would need orders for let's say some 3K cases minimum. I need to check with Albert, as he is a major publisher. GDG would be another potential customer for the cases. But frankly I have no idea from where those guys get cases from, as I haven't talked to any of them yet.
I really want to have those cases made, and I want them to look good, high quality, just like the originals.

[GroovyBee]

Will you be offering different colours or just the standard black?

[opcode]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:23 AM, said:

Will you be offering different colours or just the standard black?

Different colors are definitively possible, I just need to check which colors are available and what would be the minimum order.

[GroovyBee]

opcode, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:29 AM, said:

Different colors are definitively possible, I just need to check which colors are available and what would be the minimum order.

What about transparent?

[opcode]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:32 AM, said:

opcode, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:29 AM, said:

Different colors are definitively possible, I just need to check which colors are available and what would be the minimum order.

What about transparent?

Probably possible, as transparent plastic is pretty common. But again, I need to check first to be 100% sure.

BTW, not to derail the thread, but how big is the 7800 homebrew "market"? I mean, how many copies of any given game can you sell maximum?

[GroovyBee]

opcode, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:37 AM, said:

BTW, not to derail the thread, but how big is the 7800 homebrew "market"? I mean, how many copies of any given game can you sell maximum?

It depends on the title and the price. Judging by pre-orders for previous games that I've seen on the forum I'd say that 50 to 100 would be possible for a 7800 title. For a 2600 title maybe 50 to 200 is possible (maybe even more).

[accousticguitar]

I'd say 50 to 100 on 2600 titles also. Chunkout had a 100 cart run and afaik they still have a few left.

[opcode]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:50 AM, said:

It depends on the title and the price. Judging by pre-orders for previous games that I've seen on the forum I'd say that 50 to 100 would be possible for a 7800 title. For a 2600 title maybe 50 to 200 is possible (maybe even more).

Hm...
I have heard of 2600 titles selling in excess of 400 copies. My Space Invaders Collection for the ColecoVision sold in excess of 200 copies (close to 250), Pac-Man Collection and Sky Jaguar are getting there. But of course those are probably extremes, though you can conclude from that there are 400 people minimum willing to buy 2600 homebrews and 200 to buy ColecoVision. Of course not all people want to buy the same games or all the games, so the market should be a bit bigger than that.

[GroovyBee]

It's essentially down to the title. If you look at the following :-

ATARI 2600 NTSC RACER (proto) - 71 sold (mostliy CIB)

ATARI 2600 NTSC Bouncing Baby Bunnies (proto) - 58 sold (mostly CIB)

7800 Jr Pacman - 80+ sold

So I'd say 100 is possible on both platforms.

[Mitch]

Definitely there is interest. I think Al is the best one to talk to as he probably use more shells than anyone else.

Mitch

[Mord]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:38 AM, said:

So I'd say 100 is possible on both platforms.

Additionally, there's sure to be more demand for the cases as time goes on and we twist GroovyBee's arm just a liiiittle bit more to get another game out the door.

The 7800 market in particular is still just starting to take off as far as I can tell, so there's always going to be more. I'd recommend going for something other than plain black cases however - there's sure to be more interest in other colors. I remember people being depressed when Al ran out of his colored cases a few years back.

The clear/transparent type is likely to be the best bet for the first run, as that case goes well with everything!

[GroovyBee]

Mord, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:52 PM, said:

Additionally, there's sure to be more demand for the cases as time goes on and we twist GroovyBee's arm just a liiiittle bit more to get another game out the door.

I don't need arm twisting to get any games out. More than 24 hours in a day would be a good start and I'll have to stop reading all the threads that say "The 7800 can't do XYZ" to which I think "I don't see why not" and then go off and give it a go.

Quote

The 7800 market in particular is still just starting to take off as far as I can tell, so there's always going to be more. I'd recommend going for something other than plain black cases however - there's sure to be more interest in other colors. I remember people being depressed when Al ran out of his colored cases a few years back.

The clear/transparent type is likely to be the best bet for the first run, as that case goes well with everything!

Yep! I agree that other colours are a necessity.

[opcode]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:19 PM, said:

Mord, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:52 PM, said:

Additionally, there's sure to be more demand for the cases as time goes on and we twist GroovyBee's arm just a liiiittle bit more to get another game out the door.

I don't need arm twisting to get any games out. More than 24 hours in a day would be a good start and I'll have to stop reading all the threads that say "The 7800 can't do XYZ" to which I think "I don't see why not" and then go off and give it a go.

Quote

The 7800 market in particular is still just starting to take off as far as I can tell, so there's always going to be more. I'd recommend going for something other than plain black cases however - there's sure to be more interest in other colors. I remember people being depressed when Al ran out of his colored cases a few years back.

The clear/transparent type is likely to be the best bet for the first run, as that case goes well with everything!

Yep! I agree that other colours are a necessity.

"Colours" will depend on where we decide to inject, here in the US or in Brazil (the mold should be made in Brazil no matter what). And that will depend on total cost for both alternatives, cost per hundred cases, shipping, etc. I believe injection costs are lower in Brazil, however how much would it cost to ship thousands of cases to the US after that?
But I am pretty sure transparent is available everywhere, it is a pretty common plastic color. Availability of other colours may vary.

[gdement]

I don't know what a C2 shell is, but I think the best purpose for making new shells would be to design it to allow more components to fit on the circuit board. Eliminating the center post would help, or making the shell taller could be even better. 7800 carts could use more space for chips, but the old 2600 shell design is limiting.
I don't think there's any shortage of standard shells out there, so reproducing those doesn't seem very interesting to me.

[GroovyBee]

Maybe Curt Vendel has the cart mechanical drawings? That would help enormously in making any changes (if needed). PM sent to Curt asking .

[Curt Vendel]

Yup, I've got them, the original 1977 versions up to the 1983 versions (which would be the best ones to base against)



Curt

GroovyBee, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:27 AM, said:

Maybe Curt Vendel has the cart mechanical drawings? That would help enormously in making any changes (if needed). PM sent to Curt asking .

[opcode]

Curt Vendel, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:36 AM, said:

Yup, I've got them, the original 1977 versions up to the 1983 versions (which would be the best ones to base against)



Curt

Really?! Now that is interesting.
You know, I would be ok with changing the interior design (as long as it doesn't ruin the case sturdiness or anything), but not the exterior. It is a matter of what the goals for this project are, and one of them is to produce cases that look identical to what Atari Inc had in mind for the 7800. And why that you ask? Well, it is all a personal matter I must confess. First is to realize one of my "what-if" dreams, second is to try to get rid of that "el-cheapo" aura the 7800 gained with the Tramiels.
There is more for what I want to accomplish, but I leave that for another time.
Curt, if you are reading this, please check your email, I have sent you several emails about that during the last week.

BTW, I talked to Lance from Video 61 and he confirmed that Atari used the C2 case type for the original 7800 launch in 1984. I believe Curt kind of just confirmed that with his post too, though he is calling it the "1983 design".

Eduardo

[DracIsBack]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:19 PM, said:

I don't need arm twisting to get any games out. More than 24 hours in a day would be a good start and I'll have to stop reading all the threads that say "The 7800 can't do XYZ" to which I think "I don't see why not" and then go off and give it a go.

I should start a thread with the title:

"the 7800 can't do a really awesome Halloween game that displays a lot of colors on-screen for Halloween 2010"

[DracIsBack]

opcode, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:13 AM, said:

Well, it is all a personal matter I must confess. First is to realize one of my "what-if" dreams, second is to try to get rid of that "el-cheapo" aura the 7800 gained with the Tramiels.

Of course, to truly get passed that aura, you'll also need to do some high quality game development as well ...

[GroovyBee]

DracIsBack, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:53 AM, said:

I should start a thread with the title:

"the 7800 can't do a really awesome Halloween game that displays a lot of colors on-screen for Halloween 2010"

There are still other projects on my hard drive...... .

[DracIsBack]

GroovyBee, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:00 AM, said:

There are still other projects on my hard drive...... .

You're terrible!!!!!

[opcode]

DracIsBack, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:55 AM, said:

opcode, on Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:13 AM, said:

Well, it is all a personal matter I must confess. First is to realize one of my "what-if" dreams, second is to try to get rid of that "el-cheapo" aura the 7800 gained with the Tramiels.

Of course, to truly get passed that aura, you'll also need to do some high quality game development as well ...