49 replies to this topic

[tetrode kink]

GroovyBee, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:19 PM, said:

Mord, on Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:52 PM, said:

The clear/transparent type is likely to be the best bet for the first run, as that case goes well with everything!

Yep! I agree that other colours are a necessity.

How about transparent colors?

-tet

[kenfused]

So they would have the sliding door? is the door optional? How much does it add to the cost? Very very few 7800 carts even had the door. I have saw one Pole Position 2 cart myself that did. I personally think not having the door is a plus. It would be nice to not have the slot (hole) things on the face of the cart though that most 7800 carts have.

[Shawn Sr.]

I think having the cart glide door is a waste and having to get springs is gonna suck. The commonly known 2 peice cartridge shells for the 7800 are great IMO. Only thing I'd like to see changed would be that the 2 holes in the cart face plastic (punched in the corners) would be filled in. The shells the VGWIZ made previously covered that issue but his shells didn't hold the PCB as snug as I would have liked. You should see about tracking one down of the VGWIZ shells if even just to see what others have done with making new shells for the 2600\7800 previously. I really hope your able to get different colored shells and translucent\transpartent ones made. Flat black is kinda boring if the option for something different is avalible. I'd love to get some shells in "Barbie Pink" too!! (seriously, I'll buy alot of them if I must)

[gdement]

I've never shopped for springs, but I imagine that once you determine the exact specs, they should be cheap in bulk.

[opcode]

For those who care...
I received that Pole Position II cartridge yesterday and in one word... disappointment. Just .when I thought I was all set...
The cartridge was indeed the Atari type 2, with protective sliding door but no lock mechanism, however as you can see from the pictures, it doesn't seem like it was created with the 7800 in mind. Looks like someone manually removed (cut) the plastic between the PCB edge slot and the holes for the cartridge connector.
That just didn't look right to me, Atari Warner could make mistakes, but they weren't cheap. I then opened the cartridge and indeed the PCB was dated 05/86.
So, yeah, product of Atari Corp.
I have word from Lance that the original release used the sliding door with springs, but now I am not so sure if what I have is the exact same cartridge he was talking about (perhaps Atari Warner was doing the same cheap thing as Atari Corp in 1986, they were very economically troubled in 84 anyway), or perhaps it was a different sliding door that Atari Corp never went to the trouble of making again.
So the search continues...

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[Mitch]

Yes, all of the 7800 games with that cart shell have the slot in the dust cover cut like that. It was designed for the smaller 2600 cart PCBs and modified for 7800 ones.

Mitch

[Mitch]

Another thing I just remembered. The '84 carts I have seen don't have a screw holding them together, they have a plastic pin glued in instead.

From your pics it also looks like they used the CO25474 board instead of the CO24926 board. I guess they must not have switched boards until later than I thought. I need to check my '86 PP2 and see if it uses the CO25474 board.

So basically you have an '86 cart that they reused an '84 label on.

Mitch

[Dastari Creel]

I'd definitely be interested in this. Can Curt share the mechanical drawings from those days of yore or would that be some form of violation with his company even though this is old and in their eyes obsolete technology.

[opcode]

Mitch, on Sat May 1, 2010 1:32 PM, said:

Another thing I just remembered. The '84 carts I have seen don't have a screw holding them together, they have a plastic pin glued in instead.

Now that is a very interesting piece of info. My PP2 has a screw. However you said yours also have the dust cover cut, so I am assuming so far we haven't found the true 7800 cartridge, assuming there ever was one.

Lance seems to be my last hope, he saved some of the original releases from 84 he told me, but he still need to locate the games (in his warehouse).

About the original drawings, I believe that is something I might try to negotiate with Curt... But since I am new to the 7800 scene, I must be careful not to push people too much. Or as we say in Brazil, if you just arrived you cannot demand the window seat...

[DracIsBack]

opcode, on Sat May 1, 2010 4:58 PM, said:

About the original drawings, I believe that is something I might try to negotiate with Curt... But since I am new to the 7800 scene, I must be careful not to push people too much. Or as we say in Brazil, if you just arrived you cannot demand the window seat...

When one delivers excellence (as you do), it may make sense to occasionally demand excellence as well.

[Mitch]

opcode, on Sat May 1, 2010 4:58 PM, said:

Mitch, on Sat May 1, 2010 1:32 PM, said:

Another thing I just remembered. The '84 carts I have seen don't have a screw holding them together, they have a plastic pin glued in instead.

Now that is a very interesting piece of info. My PP2 has a screw. However you said yours also have the dust cover cut, so I am assuming so far we haven't found the true 7800 cartridge, assuming there ever was one.

My 1984 carts have the plastic pin instead of the screw, the cart cases themselves do not have the dust cover and seems to be identical to the 1987 and later 2600/7800 cart shells. The 1986 7800 carts are the only ones that have the non-locking dust cover.

Mitch

[batari]

I missed this thread before.

I don't know if this is what anyone wanted to know, but I have some of those shells with the coil spring-operated, non-locking dust door, and the dust door is not manually cut but appears to be molded that way.

I would say about 1 in 100 2600 carts I get are this style, and I prefer these to the standard locking dust door variety.

For new shells, I would not recommend any of the Atari shells, I'd opt for a new design. I'd of course keep the basic geometry so existing boards and labels will work, but that's about it. There are good things about many of the shells but none are really optimal for homebrew budgets and quantities.

First, I'd forget the dust door. Aside from the extra casting needed, springs and extra parts bring the cost up, and nobody but Atari ever used dust doors (correct me if I'm wrong) and later, even Atari did away with them. The later Atari shells without the dust door sucked because they have open areas under the edge of the label in order to cast the fingers for insertion into the console, and the label gets damaged here quickly. I believe this is on the right track though, and I understand why these holes are there. What I understand about injection mold plastics is the mold can't be truly three dimensional but "2.5 dimensional" which means you can't have overlapping features.

Some companies used separately-cast fingers, and some were spring-loaded. I don't like that idea as it just adds cost.

What I would do is cast fingers into the shell, but cast them into the opposite side so they don't affect the label. Some companies did this, but at least on the carts I have, the fingers are too large and don't fit well. Smaller late Atari-style fingers, but cast on the other side, would be ideal, I think.

Anyway, whatever you choose to do, I am interested in quite a few new shells (but that depends on the cost, thus my suggestions to bring it down...)

[Mitch]

Joe Grand has a design for new 2600/7800 cart shells and made a few prototypes. Scroll down to the bottom of this page to see them.

Mitch

[Shawn Sr.]

I canabalized a 1984 PP2 cart today and it was a simple 2 piece shell without the sliding door so that goes to show even back in 1984 they used the simple 2 piece shell not just the one with the sliding door cover. I can post pics if needed.

[opcode]

Mitch, on Sat May 1, 2010 11:48 PM, said:

opcode, on Sat May 1, 2010 4:58 PM, said:

Mitch, on Sat May 1, 2010 1:32 PM, said:

Another thing I just remembered. The '84 carts I have seen don't have a screw holding them together, they have a plastic pin glued in instead.

Now that is a very interesting piece of info. My PP2 has a screw. However you said yours also have the dust cover cut, so I am assuming so far we haven't found the true 7800 cartridge, assuming there ever was one.

My 1984 carts have the plastic pin instead of the screw, the cart cases themselves do not have the dust cover and seems to be identical to the 1987 and later 2600/7800 cart shells. The 1986 7800 carts are the only ones that have the non-locking dust cover.

Mitch

Identical including the holes in the label face? If so the lack of screw is a difference. Pictures please.

[opcode]

Shawn Sr., on Sun May 2, 2010 12:55 AM, said:

I canabalized a 1984 PP2 cart today and it was a simple 2 piece shell without the sliding door so that goes to show even back in 1984 they used the simple 2 piece shell not just the one with the sliding door cover. I can post pics if needed.

Yes, please.

[PacManPlus]

Finally!

This is very cool that there is a possibility of cart shells again.

Maybe I can help: here are pictures (front and back) of a shell without the door, a coleco cart that I modified to take 7800 boards ( ) and a shell with a sliding door:

No door:



Coleco:



With door:



Hope this helps!
Bob

[batari]

Mitch, on Sun May 2, 2010 12:04 AM, said:

Joe Grand has a design for new 2600/7800 cart shells and made a few prototypes. Scroll down to the bottom of this page to see them.

Mitch

I believe he made those years ago. I'm sure the tooling costs are the reason they never went anywhere. Regardless, that looks like a good design - no moving parts, and no holes for the fingers, much better than anything Atari ever made.

Let's hope opcode is ready to spend thousands on molds as nobody else seems to be.

[opcode]

PacManPlus, on Sun May 2, 2010 6:02 AM, said:

Finally!

This is very cool that there is a possibility of cart shells again.

Maybe I can help: here are pictures (front and back) of a shell without the door, a coleco cart that I modified to take 7800 boards ( ) and a shell with a sliding door:


Hope this helps!
Bob

Thanks for sharing, Bob.
Let me ask you something, your shell with the sliding door, does the door slot for the PCB look like it was manually cut? Your case has two pins that were removed from the case I opened for some reason, so I was wondering if they are the same case or not...

At this point my question is, supposing we decide that the sliding door is just a waste of plastic, and go with a shell with no moving parts instead. Have you guys ever noticed that most of companies producing Atari games used springs with the pins that open the cartridge slot door? From my experience I know that the Atari cases without the door are some of the worst to plug into a 2600 console, while the originals with door and lock were the best. Activision cartridges were troublesome sometimes too (even the ones with springs), they could get stuck and required several tries until they could plug correctly. So that is my fear, whatever design we go with I just want to make sure they work smoothly with both the 2600 and 7800.

[PacManPlus]

It doesn't look to me like the slot in the sliding door was manually cut anywhere, but that may just mean that they did a good job.

[Shawn Sr.]

Here are the pics of the 2 peice 1984 PP2 cart. The screw hole was not there originally, I added that myself to reuse the shell. It was originally fused together with no screw. And those are not cracks in the shell, it's like drool lines in the actual plastic

[Mitch]

Wow, that one had a pretty nice label too. Better than either of mine. If you find any more '84s with a nice label let me know.

Mitch

[Shawn Sr.]

Mitch, on Fri May 7, 2010 8:03 PM, said:

Wow, that one had a pretty nice label too. Better than either of mine. If you find any more '84s with a nice label let me know.

Mitch

I only noticed it was an '84 AFTER I punched the label looking for the screw This is like the third time I've borked a minty '84 PP2. You would figure I would have learned to look at the copyright date before mashing them by now

[Atari Joe]

Count me in!!

[gambler172]

Hi
I totally missed this.If possible,count me in too.If you make different ones,i take one of each.
greetings Walter