41 replies to this topic

[Mendon]

I just finished reading THIS STORY concerning Dragon Age problems and the more I think about all of these damn DRM's, DLC's and firmware upgrades that I am required to endure, the more angry I become.

Stop and think about the Dragon Age problem described above and expand upon it: suppose you had a game that you really enjoyed and that the game was a year or more old. Suddenly MS and/or Sony do a mandatory firmware upgrade and your game now suddenly becomes unplayable. Do you think that the developer and MS/Sony are going to spend $$$$$$, manpower, and time trying to patch a game that is a year or more old and probably doesn't sell much anymore? I highly doubt it. Would EA worry about patching Godfather II or Medal of Honor: Airborne if they were suffering from the same problem as Dragon Age? I sincerely doubt it.

It really PO's me when I think of spending money for a game that may not be playable in the near future. It really PO's me that original features that were included on the console that I paid for can be removed at any time by Sony or MS for any reason. I'm tired of dealing with constant MANDATORY updates and upgrades for features/improvements that I don't give a rat's ass about. And on and on but I've ranted enough for now.

As I said in another thread or two, with all of the problems with updates, DRM's, and DLC's, the days of cartridge based systems (or disk based like the Dreamcast - Saturn - PS1 - PS2) are looking better and better to me and I'm seriously considering investing my gaming money..... money that would have been spent on the current systems..... and buying games and accessories for my older systems.



GAMER BEWARE should be included in big letters on the box of every PS3, Wii and Xbox360 system sold.


Mendon

Edited by Mendon, Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:17 AM.

[cimerians]

Yeah, after the Capcom debacle and especially the "Date issue" on the PS3 I am VERY leary of buying anything from Xbox Live or the PSN store anymore. I tend to trust Microsoft a little more because they are cut and dry with there licensing. One hard-drive = One license. Done.

Problem is, some publishers (like Capcom) are doing it of there own free will to get around the 5 download feature that Sony has (as an example)

There's a few games that popped up on the stores last few weeks. I bought none of them whereas before I would have bought them without a doubt. (Secret of Monkey Island PS3 (cause I love it), Sam n' Max, a few mini's).

I remember years ago when OBLIVION came out on the Xbox 360 and they started charging for piddly stuff. I was pissed. Now that's not that much of a big deal compared to today's issues.

The biggest scare for me was when I could not play certain CD based games OFFLINE because of the date bug that Sony had. To me thats still not acceptable. I don't ever want to turn on my machine offline and NOT be able to play a game. Sadly is that what the future holds?

Consider me sick of this shit too. I'm still gaming and I'm still looking forward to games on the current systems but I am 1,000 times more picky with games.

Publishers I don't trust:

Ubisoft
Capcom
Namco/Bandai
Activision

[Mendon]

Not too long ago, I tried to play Dragon Age and was told something like "the servers are down. please try later". i went WTF, this is an offline game, why do I care about any servers???

After playing around, I found that the only way I could play DA was to unhook my internet from the PS3. Seems EA, in all of its wisdom, made logging into the EA servers mandatory and if these servers are down for maintenance or whatever, you can't play the game.

But of course, this isn't a flaw or glitch by EA.... its just an undocumented feature.


Mendon

[Reaperman]

I've recently lost a lot of confidence in my ps3/sony as well, and have gone back to ps2. For some time now I've only been using my ps3 for psp remote play and video features.

• I don't like that the 'other OS' fature was removed
  
• The leapday 'everything's broken' issue bugs me
  
• It bugs me that I'm tied to a network that will eventually stop supporting my system. see leapday issue above.
  
• The unwillingness of PSN to refund customers for a mislabled capcom product (imagine if a retail store tried that)
  
• I don't like how many games are sold broken or with less content forcing DLC
  
• Why are its video games $60 at launch?
  
• I don't like how my PSN user agreement is slowly transforming into a document of pure evil

Maybe modnation racers will pull me out of this.

Edited by Reaperman, Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:55 AM.

[MagitekAngel]

cimerians, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:33 AM, said:

I remember years ago when OBLIVION came out on the Xbox 360 and they started charging for piddly stuff.

Aww man, it's completely reasonable to pay real money to get your horse a set of armor! Fuck, I couldn't hold onto a horse in that game for more than three minutes. My character was so overleveled that it would get slaughtered by packs of invisible bears.

But everyone is right. DLC is an excuse for publishers to sell consumers half a game, and DRM is an excuse to take that half a game back from the consumer when it's no longer profitable to keep it available.

[AtariLeaf]

Boy, if I'm ever on the fence about buying a modern console, I just read these threads, give my head a vigorous shake, and continue playing the 2600.

[DaytonaUSA]

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:46 AM, said:

Boy, if I'm ever on the fence about buying a modern console, I just read these threads, give my head a vigorous shake, and continue playing the 2600.

No offense or anything, but that's like riding a bike instead of driving a car because with a car you'll have to pay an insurance company to drive it, get a license from the state... all of which can be taken away depending on what you do in the car.

I mean, yea with a bike you avoid all that ... but I mean... at the end of the day you're riding a freakin' bike. The 2600 is good for what it is, and it's great memories, but I'd hardly say it could hold my interest for very long and satisfy my gaming needs like a more modern system can.

[Emehr]

I'm with AtariLeaf here. All of this DLC and DRM will make me MIA in the next round of consoles if this keeps up. The fact that some gamers have accepted the fact that it's okay to pay for extra content in a game just makes my jaw drop.

[Random Terrain]

Listen, it's like belonging to an exclusive club. If you're too poor or too cheap to keep paying to play, you shouldn't be playing games. Video games are for people who matter (in other words, people who have lots of money). Get rich or get out. I'm so sick of poverty-stricken lowlifes trying to live a life they have no right to. Try to get it through your thick heads that there are special people and you'll never be one of them. Know your place. The poor shouldn't be playing games; they should be serving those of us who have real lives. Now don't you whiners have a floor to mop, a toilet to scrub, or horse crap to shovel?

[moycon]

Random Terrain, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:07 PM, said:

Listen, it's like belonging to an exclusive club. If you're too poor or too cheap to keep paying to play, you shouldn't be playing games.

Damn straight. Now get back to playing your Facebook Bejewelled.

[cimerians]

[Lord Helmet]

Emehr, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:41 PM, said:

I'm with AtariLeaf here. All of this DLC and DRM will make me MIA in the next round of consoles if this keeps up. The fact that some gamers have accepted the fact that it's okay to pay for extra content in a game just makes my jaw drop.

The DRM stuff is completely out of hand. Thats why I hack every console I own (almost anyway). I'm not putting up with it. I'm finding a way around it.

[Mendon]

moycon, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:24 PM, said:

Random Terrain, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:07 PM, said:

Listen, it's like belonging to an exclusive club. If you're too poor or too cheap to keep paying to play, you shouldn't be playing games.

Damn straight. Now get back to playing your Facebook Bejewelled.

To hell with it all.... let's just all start a Farm.


Mendon

[Jess Ragan]

Nintendo's reluctance to embrace online gaming doesn't seem so bad now, does it?

But yeah, I'm tired of gaming on their terms. I realize that the playfield has changed because of the internet and all that business, but seriously... it's reached the point of absurdity when you're charging $25 for a sparkly Rainbow Brite pony and forcing huge, volatile system updates that cut off the entire user base to spite the hackers. The hackers don't give a flip... you've just given them a new challenge. They'll work around it and make you look like fools, while the remaining users complain bitterly that you've punished them for having the audacity to play video games on your video game console.

I'm no fan of Sony, but objectively, they've been the worst about this. Their DRM for the Playstation 3 is a huge mess... how did they NOT foresee game sharing being a problem when they created PSN? What really bugs the hell out of me about the PS3 is that it tries to copy everything Microsoft did with the Xbox 360, but does it in a weird, counterintuitive way that makes the system difficult and unpleasant to use. Look, when I buy a game from your service, DOWNLOAD and INSTALL it automatically. Don't leave these steps for me to do, because it's plainly obvious I want to play the games I purchased.

[AtariLeaf]

DaytonaUSA, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:59 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:46 AM, said:

Boy, if I'm ever on the fence about buying a modern console, I just read these threads, give my head a vigorous shake, and continue playing the 2600.

No offense or anything, but that's like riding a bike instead of driving a car because with a car you'll have to pay an insurance company to drive it, get a license from the state... all of which can be taken away depending on what you do in the car.

I mean, yea with a bike you avoid all that ... but I mean... at the end of the day you're riding a freakin' bike. The 2600 is good for what it is, and it's great memories, but I'd hardly say it could hold my interest for very long and satisfy my gaming needs like a more modern system can.

No, its more like driving a nice safe FORD that's nothing fancy but has been reliable for years and gets you from A to B in comfort and safety vs. that nice shiny new Toyota that will send you careening to your death into a brick wall.

[Random Terrain]

moycon, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:24 PM, said:

Random Terrain, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:07 PM, said:

Listen, it's like belonging to an exclusive club. If you're too poor or too cheap to keep paying to play, you shouldn't be playing games.

Damn straight. Now get back to playing your Facebook Bejewelled.

Speaking of that game, I didn't like the new changes, so I stopped playing. I also quit Facebook for a while, but I will return when Civilization hits Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/civnetwork

[Mendon]

I just got to wondering, and even though this is the PS3 forum, I have to ask:

They recently took the servers down on the original Xbox console. Does that mean that anything you purchased and downloaded to your original Xbox is now unplayable? Its been a few years since I played the original Xbox but I seem to recall that you had to be connected to XboxLive to play the games you purchased, games like Pac-Man or Pipe Dreams.


And getting back to the PS3, I see that someone has decided to take Sony to court for their decision to remove the "Install other OS" feature of PS3's in that mandatory update earlier this month. READ ABOUT IT HERE. Maybe this is the start of the Customer Rights Movement.


Mendon

Edited by Mendon, Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:05 AM.

[xg4bx]

Mendon, on Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:29 AM, said:

I just got to wondering, and even though this is the PS3 forum, I have to ask:

They recently took the servers down on the original Xbox console. Does that mean that anything you purchased and downloaded to your original Xbox is now unplayable? Its been a few years since I played the original Xbox but I seem to recall that you had to be connected to XboxLive to play the games you purchased, games like Pac-Man or Pipe Dreams.


And getting back to the PS3, I see that someone has decided to take Sony to court for their decision to remove the "Install other OS" feature of PS3's in that mandatory update earlier this month. READ ABOUT IT HERE. Maybe this is the start of the Customer Rights Movement.


Mendon

technically it wasn't a "mandatory" update. nobody held a gun to your head and made you accept it. sony made you fully aware of what it does and offered the option to decline. but, just like every other piece of computer equipment you lose functionality if you choose not to update.

i think i'll sue sony for ADDING features like 3D gaming that wasn't advertised on the box. how dare they improve my experience and give us unadvertised features!

consumers already have rights: it's called don't buy it then. backdooring exploits to enable piracy isn't a "right".

[Mendon]

xg4bx, on Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:36 AM, said:

technically it wasn't a "mandatory" update. nobody held a gun to your head and made you accept it. sony made you fully aware of what it does and offered the option to decline. but, just like every other piece of computer equipment you lose functionality if you choose not to update.

i think i'll sue sony for ADDING features like 3D gaming that wasn't advertised on the box. how dare they improve my experience and give us unadvertised features!

consumers already have rights: it's called don't buy it then. backdooring exploits to enable piracy isn't a "right".

In response, technically, it was mandatory. Oh sure, I could choose not to update in order to keep Linux capability. But then I'd lose access to all online gaming and access to the PSN store. Nice trade off.

I don't ever remember losing ANY of the features that came packaged with my PC nor the ability to run any program I owned because I refused or accepted any update that MS offered. But in the case of Sony, I lose either the ability to run Linux or to game online... both of which were included on my PS3 when purchased.... based on accepting or rejecting an update.

I can't recall any other company ever reducing any of the features of a product AFTER I purchased the product. I just checked them all out and it seems that all my TV's, DVD players, appliances, car, motorcycle, iPhone, etc etc etc all still have the same features and perform the same functions as the day I purchased them. But not my PS3.


Its a principle to me. If Sony wants to release a new console that doesn't feature other OS capabilities, then yes, I have a Consumer Right to refuse to purchase it. But if Sony takes away ANY functionality of my PS3 after I purchase it for any reason Sony chooses, then I don't have a Consumer Right because Sony already has my money.


Mendon

Edited by Mendon, Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:35 PM.

[FLANNERY]

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:21 PM, said:

DaytonaUSA, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:59 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:46 AM, said:

Boy, if I'm ever on the fence about buying a modern console, I just read these threads, give my head a vigorous shake, and continue playing the 2600.

No offense or anything, but that's like riding a bike instead of driving a car because with a car you'll have to pay an insurance company to drive it, get a license from the state... all of which can be taken away depending on what you do in the car.

I mean, yea with a bike you avoid all that ... but I mean... at the end of the day you're riding a freakin' bike. The 2600 is good for what it is, and it's great memories, but I'd hardly say it could hold my interest for very long and satisfy my gaming needs like a more modern system can.

No, its more like driving a nice safe FORD that's nothing fancy but has been reliable for years and gets you from A to B in comfort and safety vs. that nice shiny new Toyota that will send you careening to your death into a brick wall.

Hey dont talk bad about toyota. That puts food on my table, and those congressional hearings were unessary and stupid.

[Mord]

FLANNERY, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:46 PM, said:

Hey dont talk bad about toyota. That puts food on my table, and those congressional hearings were unessary and stupid.

I'd rather talk bad about Ford anyhow.

[moycon]

Mendon, on Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:29 PM, said:

In response, technically, it was mandatory. Oh sure, I could choose not to update in order to keep Linux capability. But then I'd lose access to all online gaming and access to the PSN store. Nice trade off.

Agreed.

They have us by the ball sack on mandatory updates like this. It's either accept the terms or lose out MAJORLY. Don't ever recall having to deal with this BS in the past. Folks completely willing to accept the nonsense don't help gamers.

[Jess Ragan]

And they always have to start in with this "free market, free market, yay!" cheerleading. Let me ask you something... how great has the free market been to you lately? At least with regulations, the banks weren't cannibalizing their customers.

Anyway. I'm not sure how much this affects me... I do have an older PS3 but Linux has never really been my bag, plus the limited amount of RAM it can access on the PS3 narrows its horizons. At the same time, I don't like the thought that Sony, or any other company, can just remove features from a product they've sold at their own convenience. What happens if someone finds an exploit in a Blu-Ray disc? Do we lose movie playback, too? This is a worrisome precedent, and we should hold Sony's feet to the fire to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[AtariLeaf]

FLANNERY, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:46 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:21 PM, said:

DaytonaUSA, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:59 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:46 AM, said:

Boy, if I'm ever on the fence about buying a modern console, I just read these threads, give my head a vigorous shake, and continue playing the 2600.

No offense or anything, but that's like riding a bike instead of driving a car because with a car you'll have to pay an insurance company to drive it, get a license from the state... all of which can be taken away depending on what you do in the car.

I mean, yea with a bike you avoid all that ... but I mean... at the end of the day you're riding a freakin' bike. The 2600 is good for what it is, and it's great memories, but I'd hardly say it could hold my interest for very long and satisfy my gaming needs like a more modern system can.

No, its more like driving a nice safe FORD that's nothing fancy but has been reliable for years and gets you from A to B in comfort and safety vs. that nice shiny new Toyota that will send you careening to your death into a brick wall.

Hey dont talk bad about toyota. That puts food on my table, and those congressional hearings were unessary and stupid.

You're right, they're innocent

[FLANNERY]

AtariLeaf, on Sun May 2, 2010 6:04 AM, said:

FLANNERY, on Sat May 1, 2010 9:46 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:21 PM, said:

DaytonaUSA, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:59 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:46 AM, said:

Boy, if I'm ever on the fence about buying a modern console, I just read these threads, give my head a vigorous shake, and continue playing the 2600.

No offense or anything, but that's like riding a bike instead of driving a car because with a car you'll have to pay an insurance company to drive it, get a license from the state... all of which can be taken away depending on what you do in the car.

I mean, yea with a bike you avoid all that ... but I mean... at the end of the day you're riding a freakin' bike. The 2600 is good for what it is, and it's great memories, but I'd hardly say it could hold my interest for very long and satisfy my gaming needs like a more modern system can.

No, its more like driving a nice safe FORD that's nothing fancy but has been reliable for years and gets you from A to B in comfort and safety vs. that nice shiny new Toyota that will send you careening to your death into a brick wall.

Hey dont talk bad about toyota. That puts food on my table, and those congressional hearings were unessary and stupid.

You're right, they're innocent

Toyota accepted the design of the brake and gas pedels, however, Toyota had made a recall before congress decided to "crack down on Toyota". The recalled called for the falty part to be replaced free of charge and the process took less than 30 mins. They even shut down the plants untill new safe parts were supplied. I know this because my dad puts strut towers together at the plant here in Kentucky. They had them clean the plant for a solid week! Not every Toyota that is on the list is falty. For one part they will use three different suppliers. The congressional hearings were a publicity statement. One congressman even said during the hearings that you should trade in your unsafe toyota for a new GM. Toyota stock took a nosedive, and two hours later the congressman had to retract his statement as not entirely acurate. GM, Ford and Dodge all had recalls not long after Toyota did, but you did not hear that in the news, at least not on the Obama News network(NBC),the Clinton News Network(CNN) or ABC( no bad nickname at this time, check back later). It was mentioned on FoxNews a couple of times and that was it! GM also released a ad in the censis of the forementioned congressmans first statement. GM at this time was owned by the government and got lots of new customers as the press dragged on ranting about Toyota's under control recall. On a side note GM has said that they have repaid their loans recently, read this article and then will talk. http://www.businessa...0505152937.aspx Toyota took the correct and responseable steps to correct their mistake. The last time there was a congressional hearing on a car subject matter it was in the 1970's with Ford Pinto's that would explode when hit in the rear! Lets see, exploding gas tank vs brake and gas pedel sticks (But I guess people could not think to put their car in neutral and pull the emergancy brake.) Just wanted to expose some truth because people that keep slamming toyota without all the facts is getting really old, that and they do not want to be properly educated, I think it has to do with not wanting to be proven wrong.

Sorry for the rant, I look forward to more allsome youtube vids. You and classic game room are the only reasons I go to youtube anymore (too much stupid crap on there). I always look forward to your new finds at the end of the day. You do a great job, got me interested in atari and look forward to more, keep up the great work!