Curt Vendel Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 A while back there was a discussion on what would have made the 5200 a better system and of course the controllers came up. We all discussed this and I think most immediately said it needed to be self-centering and while I agree it would have been helpful, it was never what was truly the biggest gating issue of the 5200 controllers to me. I had always felt what really hurt the 5200 controller more then anything were the use of soft rubber buttons for the fire buttons - huge, HUGE mistake on Atari's part. I also felt that they never needed both A and B on each side, an A on one side and a B on the other would've been better, then the buttons could've been bigger and easier to use. Well tonight I found the mechanical drawings from the 5200L system which is also know as the 5100 or 5200jr. Apparently along with the reduced size, Atari also apparently was going to also release with it upgraded controllers with Self Centering... AND it appears my suggestions on the fire buttons were partially correct and answered by Atari 25 years ago... Not only spring loaded POTs but also hard plastic buttons with springs for better tactile feel. I have to see how they were going to work with the flex circuit because it appears that the flex circuit is unchanged - no dome cap contacts or anything, so there must've been some kind of endcap button on the stem from the fire button that was conductive rubber to make contact with the flex circuit and I will dig around more and see what else I can find out, but it looks like Atari did in fact have plans to address the short comings of the 5200 controller with the 5200L (5200jr) release... which unfortunately never happened :-( Curt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Joe Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 that's a really interesting discovery. were buttons A & B still on both sides? I really wish they would have kept the 5200 simple and released a wired version of the 2700 wireless joystick. those were simple, sold and felt really good in the hand. seems like any great game that could be created for any game system can be watered down by a poor interface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 I suppose this is an obvious, stupid question but are there spring-loaded pots out there that could be retrofitted to the current controllers or is that something that Atari would have had to get purpose-built for this new controller? I have to believe there is no such thing otherwise Best Electronics or somebody else would have offered an upgrade kit by now (sort of like paddle conversions). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 it looks like Atari did in fact have plans to address the short comings of the 5200 controller with the 5200L (5200jr) release... which unfortunately never happened :-( Curt So sad. Usually if a system is trashed, it is trashed for poor performance, games and the like. This console is one of the very few in history that is continually trashed not for those things, but for the damn controller....heh. If Atari stuck with it at the time (if that was even possible) and did release this, the system would have gone down in history in a much better light than it is seen in today. Still, I *love* my 5200 Here's to one day seeing a really good joystick replacement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerG Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 What made Atari switch course and go with the 7800? It seems like the 5200L would have corrected the concerns with the 5200 and made the system a better (and more affordable) competitor to the Colecovision. I have never understood why Atari released the 5200 in 1982 and then wanted to release the 7800 in 1984 - a two year lifespan? People complain now about the 5200, but I remember it being a great system that everyone wanted (just couldn't afford it) and the games, manuals, marketing, etc. are top-notch, so it is hard to see how Atari wasn't behind the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerG Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Eightbit - there was a good joystick alternative back in the day :-): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Nice Find, Curt. Thank you for posting that. Is there a listing on the sheet that shows what the numbers are suppose to be? Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted July 22, 2010 Author Share Posted July 22, 2010 I'm going to update the Atari 5100 section on Atarimuseum.com in the next couple of days to reflect all of the new information. All of the sheets note that this project was codenamed "Cram Pam" Nice Find, Curt. Thank you for posting that. Is there a listing on the sheet that shows what the numbers are suppose to be? Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellis Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Peronally, I always liked the 5200 controllers, but I would have appreciated it if they added some sort of self-centering to them. It sounds like these sticks are exactly what I would have wanted. How intriguing! FWIW, I thought the two fire buttons were terrific the way they were (one on top of the other), but I respect that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Hmmm.....methinks these might be mentioned in a new Retro Gamer article on the 5200 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohoki Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Eightbit - there was a good joystick alternative back in the day :-): you realize this guy(just a hobbiest really) only made about 100 of these well after its heyday and that joystick was incompatable with superbreakout,kaboom,missile command,gorf it took away the slow movement from galaxian and poleposit the analog stick was never my complaint it was the buttons and since atari had experince with the little metal disk switches of the 2600 standard controller why didnt they just use a little board with 2 switches for each fires hell the keypad and top row too i just have to think they wanted to be modern with the conductive carbon disks the diamond gate clip on joystick add on helped with the definite direction type games (pac,dig,kanga,jungle) i didnt really like the idea of springloading the pots as not centering them allows them to not require absolute precision in the pots and system as if a center just requires a tad holding of the stick to one direction like with missile command or starwars you dont really notice but when it springs to center if there is a slight variation in systems you may notice the cursor not standing directly over the missile base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerG Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Bohoki, I know, it was just a joke - I doubt he even sold anywhere close to 100. He had one or two small ads in one videogame magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Joe Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Do you know who was responsible for the industrial design on the CX52 joystick and if it's the same person who did the CX52L joystick? I know Regan designed the machine and the cartridges but he said he wasn't responsible for the controller design. So I wonder who was. I know it wasnt Regan and I'm pretty sure it wasnt Roy Nishi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) Do you know who was responsible for the industrial design on the CX52 joystick and if it's the same person who did the CX52L joystick? I know Regan designed the machine and the cartridges but he said he wasn't responsible for the controller design. So I wonder who was. I know it wasnt Regan and I'm pretty sure it wasnt Roy Nishi. Yah, Curt actually found these archival images of the CX52 design team as well: Edited July 23, 2010 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 Craig Asher designed the 5200 controller, he designed the first paddle controllers on the Atari dedicated Pong consoles, so he was with Atari going back quite a bit, he was also involved with the 7800 Prolines. John Hyashi and one other person (name is escaping me at the moment) design the Atari X/Y joysticks - the CX-10/CX-40's. The 5200 controller actually had quite a few patents assigned to it because of a lot of the innovations created to make it functional. Curt Do you know who was responsible for the industrial design on the CX52 joystick and if it's the same person who did the CX52L joystick? I know Regan designed the machine and the cartridges but he said he wasn't responsible for the controller design. So I wonder who was. I know it wasnt Regan and I'm pretty sure it wasnt Roy Nishi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted July 23, 2010 Author Share Posted July 23, 2010 I thought those were the BP exec's in charge of safety on the Deepwater Horizon... Do you know who was responsible for the industrial design on the CX52 joystick and if it's the same person who did the CX52L joystick? I know Regan designed the machine and the cartridges but he said he wasn't responsible for the controller design. So I wonder who was. I know it wasnt Regan and I'm pretty sure it wasnt Roy Nishi. Yah, Curt actually found these archival images of the CX52 design team as well: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) They are, you know how all the ex-Atari people wound up spreading out through various industries. I thought those were the BP exec's in charge of safety on the Deepwater Horizon... Do you know who was responsible for the industrial design on the CX52 joystick and if it's the same person who did the CX52L joystick? I know Regan designed the machine and the cartridges but he said he wasn't responsible for the controller design. So I wonder who was. I know it wasnt Regan and I'm pretty sure it wasnt Roy Nishi. Yah, Curt actually found these archival images of the CX52 design team as well: Edited July 25, 2010 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 I thought those were the BP exec's in charge of safety on the Deepwater Horizon... Do you know who was responsible for the industrial design on the CX52 joystick and if it's the same person who did the CX52L joystick? I know Regan designed the machine and the cartridges but he said he wasn't responsible for the controller design. So I wonder who was. I know it wasnt Regan and I'm pretty sure it wasnt Roy Nishi. Yah, Curt actually found these archival images of the CX52 design team as well: Those are actually just some of the gamers who blame the controllers for their bad scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted July 26, 2010 Share Posted July 26, 2010 i didnt really like the idea of springloading the pots as not centering them allows them to not require absolute precision in the pots and system as if a center just requires a tad holding of the stick to one direction like with missile command or starwars you dont really notice but when it springs to center if there is a slight variation in systems you may notice the cursor not standing directly over the missile base That's not a problem, you just auto-calibrate the center position when the game boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Bump. Any plans for Syzygy to market a retrofit kit? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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