132 replies to this topic

[lucifershalo]

I see
thanks for the newbie like explanation

I am excited, now
great work!

[Mord]

lucifershalo, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 2:21 PM, said:

us, "mortals",are we going to see the difference?
Like, yes that game would never be possible on a normal 7800 console or not?

For such mortals to know if it was possible on a stock 7800 or not would require them to know far more about the console than what mortals typically know. Mortals go by pictures and sound only, so if you see and hear a difference and notice nothing like that was ever done back in the old day, then that's "proof" enough.

[lucifershalo]

Mord, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 2:53 PM, said:

lucifershalo, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 2:21 PM, said:

us, "mortals",are we going to see the difference?
Like, yes that game would never be possible on a normal 7800 console or not?

For such mortals to know if it was possible on a stock 7800 or not would require them to know far more about the console than what mortals typically know. Mortals go by pictures and sound only, so if you see and hear a difference and notice nothing like that was ever done back in the old day, then that's "proof" enough.

Not necessarily, cause Groovybee said that the 7800 had never pushed to its limits back in the days

[etschuetz]

Underball, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 10:02 AM, said:

GroovyBee, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 6:37 AM, said:

Underball, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 6:25 AM, said:

I have to say though, for all the hype about the Expansion Module, for this to be the only game being previewed, I'm a little disappointed.

You complain when nothing is shown and then you complain that it isn't enough when a game is. You seem to forget that homebrew games are done in our spare time. However, if you want to privately fund a retro game development team at a commercial rate for programmers and artists then feel free to set up such a team. If not, you'll just have to be patient like everybody else.

I would have expected 3-4 titles being announced.

Your one game looks great. Where's the other teams' games? Are there any?

I'm not complaining. I'm asking where the software is. I don't see any.

Again, you missed what was stated. There are NO teams developing games for this device, or ANY Atari console. These "teams" are individuals. Single people. None of which are part of any development team, production company, etc. They are hard working people that create new and original content for these beloved systems in their spare time. They don't demand payment, and generally put the bin files on this forum for free. (Not always, and understandably). DEMANDING more is rude. One should be excited and happy that a new product and game is being released on a system that has been dead since 1988/89(ish).

[potatohead]

GroovyBee, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 2:49 PM, said:

potatohead, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 2:29 PM, said:

That's a heck of a start Groovybee. Long road to travel, you say, but one that's probably going to be worth it.

Thanks for the screenie.

Thanks for the compliment. It was fun solving the scrolling problem in software to allow 25 colours per scan line. The technique can be used with other games too.

Quote

Everyone, if just one game gets done for the expansion, I'm golden. I want one, and remember that this stuff happens over a very long period of time usually. Once the things are out there, good stuff will happen.

Well put!

Quote

Between that, and Batari's 7800 capable Harmony project, it looks like the 7800 will be seeing the love for a while. I can wait...

Yep! Its all go on the 7800 front .

Seriously.

And you mentioned it was a software scroll?? Nice!

[sh3-rg]

I know loads of people are really excited about the Expansion Module, me included I just think it's a little bit early for people to give away too much about what they're working on or to have something ready to show at this very early stage, I think the specs were only finalised relatively recently. I'd guess any active 7800 game makers are probably still working on or maybe adapting existing stuff for now & will get to grips with the Expansion Module given a little time. It's not quite a chicken & egg thing but nothing is going to happen overnight. There's a lot of fun stuff to look forward to, it's a great time to be an Atari fan

EDIT: clarity

[GroovyBee]

etschuetz, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 3:50 PM, said:

There are NO teams developing games for this device, or ANY Atari console. These "teams" are individuals. Single people. None of which are part of any development team, production company, etc.

Not quite true. I have worked with pixel artists on a few of my 7800 projects. Without the help of people like sh3-rg, nonner242 and espire8 my games would look quite bland. I guess we are a small team . In the Jag/ST/A8 scenes small teams seem to be quite common too.

Quote

They are hard working people that create new and original content for these beloved systems in their spare time. They don't demand payment, and generally put the bin files on this forum for free. (Not always, and understandably). DEMANDING more is rude. One should be excited and happy that a new product and game is being released on a system that has been dead since 1988/89(ish).

Well said!

[GroovyBee]

potatohead, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 3:56 PM, said:

Seriously.

And you mentioned it was a software scroll?? Nice!

That's the beauty of having all that lovely RAM available. It opens the doors for interesting ways to solve problems. The software scroll will be replaced with hardware assist on the real deal so I'll get CPU cycles back.

[jaybird3rd]

etschuetz, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 3:50 PM, said:

Again, you missed what was stated. There are NO teams developing games for this device, or ANY Atari console. These "teams" are individuals. Single people. None of which are part of any development team, production company, etc. They are hard working people that create new and original content for these beloved systems in their spare time. They don't demand payment, and generally put the bin files on this forum for free. (Not always, and understandably). DEMANDING more is rude. One should be excited and happy that a new product and game is being released on a system that has been dead since 1988/89(ish).

Yes. Homebrew developers need to be viewed as fellow hobbyists, not as producers at Sony or Microsoft who are in charge of putting together a set of compelling launch titles for a new console.

I wrote something in the ColecoVision forum about how homebrew games have recently come to be seen as more of a business than a hobby, and how this has inflated classic gamers' expectations beyond what can reasonably be expected of people who are doing this for fun and in their own spare time:

jaybird3rd, on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:25 AM, said:

newcoleco, on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:16 AM, said:

I have one question. Don't you think that part of the issue is related to the always growing expectations?

I think that's one contributing factor, but again, this leads into the questions of motivation that I mentioned (and that I might have added to my earlier post after you read it). Are developers in it to live up to other people's expectations, or are they in it to do the kind of work they enjoy? I think one of the biggest mistakes that developers make is to allow the desires of others to become more important to them than their own. If you try to please everybody, you're bound to burn yourself out sooner or later.

I think that consumers have a role to play here, too. I actually wish they would stop thinking of themselves as passive consumers, but as active participants in the hobby. Those of us who buy homebrew games need to remember that the developers are not creating these games primarily to please us. They are--or should be--doing it for their own enjoyment and fulfillment; if they choose to share what they've created with us, so much the better (and if they don't, that's their right, too). If we don't like what they do, we can always support somebody else whose work we enjoy more, and if nobody is doing the kind of work we envision, maybe that's an creative possibility that we can play a role in exploring. But if we can't contribute to that process in any constructive way, that's our problem and not the developers', and we aren't entitled go around making demands of them.

[GroovyBee]

sh3-rg, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 3:57 PM, said:

I know loads of people are really excited about the Expansion Module, me included I just think it's a little bit early for people to give away too much about what they're working on or to have something ready to show at this very early stage, I think the specs were only finalised relatively recently. I'd guess any active 7800 game makers are probably still working on or maybe adapting existing stuff for now & will get to grips with the Expansion Module given a little time. It's not quite a chicken & egg thing but nothing is going to happen overnight. There's a lot of fun stuff to look forward to, it's a great time to be an Atari fan

Agreed! There are all sorts of projects going on in the world of the 7800. Just because there are no announcements doesn't mean the platform has been forgotten. People have real lives to get on with and many have multiple hobbies and outside interests to juggle too. If homebrew developers can't spend time coding for an announced project there is no point applying pressure or making them feel like they have to deliver. Its more likely to make them drop the project, take the flak and then leave the scene rather than see it through.

[HammR25]

jaybird3rd, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 4:04 PM, said:

I wrote something in the ColecoVision forum about how homebrew games have recently come to be seen as more of a business than a hobby, and how this has inflated classic gamers' expectations beyond what can reasonably be expected of people who are doing this for fun and in their own spare time:

jaybird3rd, on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:25 AM, said:

newcoleco, on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:16 AM, said:

I have one question. Don't you think that part of the issue is related to the always growing expectations?

I think that's one contributing factor, but again, this leads into the questions of motivation that I mentioned (and that I might have added to my earlier post after you read it). Are developers in it to live up to other people's expectations, or are they in it to do the kind of work they enjoy? I think one of the biggest mistakes that developers make is to allow the desires of others to become more important to them than their own. If you try to please everybody, you're bound to burn yourself out sooner or later.

I think that consumers have a role to play here, too. I actually wish they would stop thinking of themselves as passive consumers, but as active participants in the hobby. Those of us who buy homebrew games need to remember that the developers are not creating these games primarily to please us. They are--or should be--doing it for their own enjoyment and fulfillment; if they choose to share what they've created with us, so much the better (and if they don't, that's their right, too). If we don't like what they do, we can always support somebody else whose work we enjoy more, and if nobody is doing the kind of work we envision, maybe that's an creative possibility that we can play a role in exploring. But if we can't contribute to that process in any constructive way, that's our problem and not the developers', and we aren't entitled go around making demands of them.

The entitled attitude is prevalent even in online communities where no money changes hands so it's not even the "business" aspect that causes people to complain. Of course the business angle is a joke anyway since very little money is made for hundreds of hours of work.

[jaybird3rd]

HammR25, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 4:21 PM, said:

The entitled attitude is prevalent even in online communities where no money changes hands so it's not even the "business" aspect that causes people to complain. Of course the business angle is a joke anyway since very little money is made for hundreds of hours of work.

True enough. I was responding specifically to developers who choose the games they work on based on known properties that will appeal to the broadest possible audiences, and consumers who expect solid deadlines and get upset when those deadlines slip, who try to dictate what kinds of games are made and who threaten to take their business elsewhere if they don't see what they like, and so forth.

Those types of attitudes and interactions are all appropriate for the world of commercial video games, but they don't apply very well to homebrew gaming, which operates on a very different set of dynamics. You've pointed out one of the reasons: there's so little money to be made producing games for such old consoles that thinking of it as a business is completely alien to the reality of how the homebrew "scene" actually works, and a lot of consumers in particular don't realize that. But the entitlement attitude is indeed a larger phenomenon.

[Curt Vendel]

Some of the first things the expansion module will immediately work with are all of the High Score Cart enabled games.

Pokey enhanced games - like Pac Man Pokey enhanced will work with it and then you'll start to then see the expansion module games that will then utilize all of the added scoring keeping, audio and ram features.

Hopefully then later on more industrious coders will then try their hand at the SIO port and perhaps the keyboard interfacing system.



Curt

[Chickybaby]

TY Jaybird, well worded.
Mucho TY Curt and Groovy Bee! You guys are awesome.

There's a CGE sections on the forums - go look yourselves!
Selfish Bitch - Damn right! Wonderful, warm people.
I was Making up swag bags for the sales behind the booth and didn't really walk around, then bout 2-3PM bean was ready for a nap and up I went. Forgot to buy magnets so hobbled quickly downstairs said hi/bye to several people I could in a hurry and back up to the room. I've made posts on how I love how open everything is.
Expansion Module - just the proto unit set up, very slick and clean looking, a lot of pics were taken it's set up at the outside of a U Shaped display but unfortunately I don't have a camera. So, within the next few days, I know al photo'd everything so you should see it up soon. It really was about people getting together and sharing friendship and info.

Yesterday I was really too sick so was very happy my health and medicines held up today.

lucifershalo, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 2:16 PM, said:

DracIsBack, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 1:26 PM, said:

Underball, on Sun Aug 1, 2010 1:16 PM, said:

I know. I kind of expected to see more posts about what's being shown at CGE since were in the age of the Internet, and all. Are the CGE people reporting by carrier pigeon?

They're probably enjoying the show!

What!!?? Enjoying the show

Selfish B...

Get on already, we want a report...report!! report!!!

[Corby]

GroovyBee, on Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:47 PM, said:

For those of you not attending CGE 2010 here's a sneak peek at my Expansion Module game Dungeon! :-

dungeon_00.png dungeon_06.png
dungeon_02.png dungeon_04.png

Many thanks to sh3-rg for the fantastic graphics (as per usual). The title page has been hand edited because its a 160C image (it looks very close to that image on a TV). Its a single player, 8 way scroller that allows 25 colours per video scan line (the maximum the 7800 can do). Graphics are provisional and may change in the future. There is still a great deal of work to do on it. Hence there is no fixed release date and no binary available at this time.

Suck back that one nintendo!!!!!

[Rex Dart]

That looks so bitchin', I think my 7800 shat itself.

[GroovyBee]

Rex Dart, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 10:17 AM, said:

That looks so bitchin', I think my 7800 shat itself.

In fear or excitement?

[Rex Dart]

Anticipation, man!

[Madaracs]

GroovyBee, on Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:47 PM, said:

For those of you not attending CGE 2010 here's a sneak peek at my Expansion Module game Dungeon! :-

dungeon_00.png dungeon_06.png
dungeon_02.png dungeon_04.png

Many thanks to sh3-rg for the fantastic graphics (as per usual). The title page has been hand edited because its a 160C image (it looks very close to that image on a TV). Its a single player, 8 way scroller that allows 25 colours per video scan line (the maximum the 7800 can do). Graphics are provisional and may change in the future. There is still a great deal of work to do on it. Hence there is no fixed release date and no binary available at this time.

Great work. I'm not a fan of Gauntlet on home machines. Honestly, it bores me to tears. But the work is awesome! I love the boot screen. I miss the days when every great programmer got credit on the main screen.

[GroovyBee]

Madaracs, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:19 PM, said:

Great work. I'm not a fan of Gauntlet on home machines. Honestly, it bores me to tears. But the work is awesome! I love the boot screen. I miss the days when every great programmer got credit on the main screen.

Thanks for the compliment. As I've mentioned numerous times already its not going to be Gauntlet.

[desiv]

GroovyBee, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:23 PM, said:

Thanks for the compliment. As I've mentioned numerous times already its not going to be Gauntlet.

Wow! Great looking! That looks like the best port of Gauntlet...

Kidding! That does look like and awesome top-down dungeon crawl!!!
(of which not ALL are Gauntlet)

I can't wait!!!

You homebrew devs keep making me hate myself more and more for not getting off my butt and actually trying to do something...

Thanx!

desiv

[GroovyBee]

desiv, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:37 PM, said:

Kidding! That does look like and awesome top-down dungeon crawl!!!
(of which not ALL are Gauntlet)

Thanks for the compliment.

Quote

You homebrew devs keep making me hate myself more and more for not getting off my butt and actually trying to do something...

Easy! Go to the programming section for your machine of choice, download the docs, read, experiment, ask questions if you get stuck and have fun along the way.

[batari]

GroovyBee, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:23 PM, said:

Madaracs, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:19 PM, said:

Great work. I'm not a fan of Gauntlet on home machines. Honestly, it bores me to tears. But the work is awesome! I love the boot screen. I miss the days when every great programmer got credit on the main screen.

Thanks for the compliment. As I've mentioned numerous times already its not going to be Gauntlet.

You can't call it Dungeon either - the name's already taken by a 2600 game in the AA store

[GroovyBee]

batari, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 5:49 PM, said:

You can't call it Dungeon either - the name's already taken by a 2600 game in the AA store

Technically its "Dungeon!" .

[Bakasama]

I guess we can't call it, "Old Man Kills Stuff With Magic Hands"