100 replies to this topic

[eightbit]

After a struggle to try to find this device, one finally arrived to me yesterday. I finally had the chance to test it with a SMS controller. Man, what a trip! Both buttons work as they should and the control really rocks. I kicked some major tail in "Moon Patrol"...even better than I ever did with the original controller or even the Wico.

Now, with so many controller issues with this system, it seems to me the redemption adapter was the "fix". Why the hell was it discontinued? This should be an AtariAge Store "always in stock" item honestly. People really need this to help overcome the joystick issues and be able to enjoy the 5200 for the incredible console it is.

I would like to cast a vote that this be re-released! I would certainly buy one or two more if it ever does!

[GroovyBee]

If there was enough interest I was planning on doing a 5200 version of this :-

http://www.atariage....ller-interface/

[classics]

I did a PSX->5200 controller interface a few years ago but never produced it because obtaining the cable and connector parts looked like it was going to be a major PITA. (Namely having to buy them from someone who would double the price every time I wanted a few more)

Its possible to sort of do it with standard DB-15 connectors but nothing will quite fit right.

Maybe things have changed since then, but I would imagine its part of why the Redemption is not easy to get a the moment.

Steve

[GroovyBee]

classics, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 6:18 AM, said:

I did a PSX->5200 controller interface a few years ago but never produced it because obtaining the cable and connector parts looked like it was going to be a major PITA. (Namely having to buy them from someone who would double the price every time I wanted a few more)

Finding a good source of any "old style" looking cable is a tough one .

[Albert]

Yes, the cable aspect of the Redemption is the main reason it is no longer available. We were able to find a plastic DB15 connector that worked okay in the 5200 with some shaving of the plastic, but it never did fit as well as a normal 5200 connector, which is deeper and has small tabs to help hold the controller in place. We also had to have cables custom built, and they were very expensive overall. On top of that, soldering the cables to the board was also very time consuming and error prone--I had to rework many boards due to the cables alone.

Aside from the cable problem, a revised "Redemption" adapter would also need to use something other than a 5200 cartridge shell for the case, since those are time consuming to prep.

I really would love to make a revised Redemption adapter available, as I am asked about them on a regular basis.

..Al

[hex65000]

Yeah, that's the issue I'm just now bumping into...

A standard db-15 connector fits and feels like there's a good connection, but as soon as a backshell gets involved you can't make it mechanically fit. Option 1 is scavenge 5200 cables and hope for the best, but that's cost prohibitive. I have another idea, but I need to consult with an expert (IE: someone who knows more than me. )

I'm at the point now where I've got the hardware architecture worked out and am waiting on the first slice board to come back in the mail. I also need to finish the second slice of my design which is electrically simple, but mechanically it is a PITA.

Fabbing isn't hard for me at this point. I've gotten pretty good at soldering small targets, and I picked up a hot air tool for the QFP and SOIC parts.

@ Groovybee, Classics: I'd like to get this project out the door in my lifetime (been picking at it on & off for 2 yrs. ) Any interest in working together?

Hex.
[ If you didn't say 'wait. What?' then you were likely in on the gag for a while... ]

[GroovyBee]

hex65000, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:19 AM, said:

@ Groovybee, Classics: I'd like to get this project out the door in my lifetime (been picking at it on & off for 2 yrs. ) Any interest in working together?

I've no idea what your project is so I don't know if I can help. Anyways... Drop me a PM if you want.

[thegamezmaster]

I would be interested in the sega one that supports the two buttons of the 5200. My main problem is being financially challenged. Any way to lower the cost of the finished product, thinking the more you make and sell the better for you. I do understand you need to get paid for your work and you should. Just some idle thoughts. What you've all done really rocks! Thanks.

[classics]

Another problem is that a male DB-15 metal back shell will slice off the retention tabs on the 5200 female controller cables, eventually ruining them.

I'd be happy to help if I can, feel free to add me to your PM conversation.

Steve

[eightbit]

hex65000, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:19 AM, said:

Option 1 is scavenge 5200 cables and hope for the best, but that's cost prohibitive.

There are two ideas I personally can think of as a source of cables. One would be using extension cables from Best. They sell 5200 extension cables for $12.95 each. Perhaps they would cut a deal for a bulk purchase? The other option would be to sell the adapter on a manufacture per order basis and to require the customer to provide a broken 5200 stick for cable salvage.

[GroovyBee]

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:09 AM, said:

The other option would be to sell the adapter on a manufacture per order basis and to require the customer to provide a broken 5200 stick for cable salvage.

Not such a good idea if the cable is the part with the fault.

[eightbit]

GroovyBee, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:17 AM, said:

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:09 AM, said:

The other option would be to sell the adapter on a manufacture per order basis and to require the customer to provide a broken 5200 stick for cable salvage.

Not such a good idea if the cable is the part with the fault.

Well, I have four controllers here that are broken to various degrees (some move, but buttons do not work and some vice versa) so chances are the cables aren't what is at fault with those. However, you are right when it comes to the cables. Maybe we can throw out a plea to donate controllers to AA for cable salvage. I'll donate a few for the cause

[Albert]

GroovyBee, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:17 AM, said:

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:09 AM, said:

The other option would be to sell the adapter on a manufacture per order basis and to require the customer to provide a broken 5200 stick for cable salvage.

Not such a good idea if the cable is the part with the fault.

Unlikely to be the cable--most problems people have with the 5200 are with the fire buttons and keypad buttons. However, if the wires for the 5200 controllers are not consistently colored it could be a pain. How are they attached to the 5200 board? If there's a connector, that could work out well.

..Al

[eightbit]

Judging from the replacement part B&C sells, the wires are color coded and even better it DOES have a connector:

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130409439214

[classics]

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:55 AM, said:

Judging from the replacement part B&C sells, the wires are color coded and even better it DOES have a connector:

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130409439214

I believe the connector on those is for a flex circuit, but I could be wrong.

Also be prepared for the price to not be anywhere near $10 each when they figure out you want more than one. Just my experience, YMMV of course.

Steve

[Allan]

How many cables would you need to start with?

Allan

[GroovyBee]

Allan, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 12:03 PM, said:

How many cables would you need to start with?

For my project I can't say because I don't know if there is sufficient interest to create a 5200 version after the 7800/2600/A8/C64/ST version has been done.

[eightbit]

I would imagine there would be some great interest in any new 5200 adapter available. The Wico controller demand has been high lately (especially on ebay) because people rediscovering the 5200 really do not have much of a choice for controlling the games. The homebrew scene on the 5200 is still alive and kicking (Tempest is something I am looking forward to!) and I really believe it has a lot of life left in it. This controller business has given the system a bad wrap for way too long.

[HammR25]

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:55 AM, said:

Judging from the replacement part B&C sells, the wires are color coded and even better it DOES have a connector:

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 130409439214

Best Electronics has those for $8.

http://www.best-elec....com/cx52_j.htm

It's listed as the CA018145 CX52 Controller Cable assembly

[hex65000]

Essentially what you're already pondering Groovybee. A psx -> 5200 adapter that takes advantage of both analog sticks on the playstation controller. I didn't know classics had gotten as far as prototyping one until CPUWiz clued me in a few weeks ago.

I have found a male db-15 connector worked out within reason. It's not a good fit, but it doesn't suck. It's a solid nylon/black fiberglass connector so it has a bit of flex to it. I do expect that the thing would eventually crack though. Another possibility is to notch out the nylon where the clips are ahead of time. It's additional labor, but I'm already looking at the labor options to get a serviceable female connector.

Sourcing old 5200 cables isn't great either. It may be a good option, but I'm lukewarm since it's a limited resource and the price would likely spike (as hinted at above) as soon as those who have the new old stock figured out they could start scalping connectors. I'm already scrapping stuff to get the PSX connector. Although my method of sourcing them has been inexpensive, which is the good news.

As for demand, I think it's there. Heck, I want one, and I've seen a few requests pop up in the marketplace/wanted area. I take that as a hint.

In terms of cost, I haven't worked that bit out yet. obviously keeping the cost down is important, at the same time you want something robust enough to meet the needs of a user and capable of being resistant to ID-10t errors. That's the balancing act, and when your'e hand soldering your time is still part of the cost. I can stuff a board in a couple of hours, but cabling takes longer, and so does packaging, etc. What's my time worth and when do you just say 'screw it' and farm it out you know?

I'll send out a PM shortly with details...

Hex.
[ Not how I planned on going public with this, but hey... ]

[GroovyBee]

hex65000, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:17 PM, said:

Essentially what you're already pondering Groovybee. A psx -> 5200 adapter that takes advantage of both analog sticks on the playstation controller. I didn't know classics had gotten as far as prototyping one until CPUWiz clued me in a few weeks ago.

No probs. I'll cancel my 5200 plans then.

[lucifershalo]

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 12:08 AM, said:

After a struggle to try to find this device, one finally arrived to me yesterday.

should have traded to you for a lot more

[Allan]

http://www.multigame...ontrol5200.html

It never happened but you might get some ideas from it.

Allan

[Akidagain]

I'd definitely buy a 5200 Redemption. As far as pricing goes, Wico's with a Y-cable are going for $60+ on ebay, and they don't work very well IMO, so anything in that range is certainly reasonable. The Competition Pro and the Masterplay Interface are too hard to find and too expensive when one becomes available. I am one of those A5200 fans who believes a refurbished stock controller isn't bad, but this classic system deserves a great controller that anyone can buy. I hope this can get done. I'm sure there are many others who would agree.

Best,

Eric

[eightbit]

lucifershalo, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 1:57 PM, said:

eightbit, on Mon Aug 2, 2010 12:08 AM, said:

After a struggle to try to find this device, one finally arrived to me yesterday.

should have traded to you for a lot more

Well, two original controllers, a Wico and a y-adapter was about as much as I would have gone anyway


Yeah, $60 range in price is about right (before shipping of course) for a device like this. I think the PSX controller's analog self centering stick would probably work really really good for this. If the device incorporated a dialpad and start/pause/reset buttons (to completely eliminate the 5200 controller) I would pay double!