29 replies to this topic

[Kaz atarionline.pl]

Have you heard about "Dungeon Master", first realtime RPG game for Atari ST and other 16-bit computers? Sure you have . Vega and Tezz are working on conversion for 8-bit Atari, Miker is preparing music and sfx. More details on AtariOnline.pl, including screenshots and video clips. No download yet.

http://atarionline.p...at=1&ct=nowinki

I think Tezz is the best person to answer all questions expected here .

[Tin_Lunchbox]

Dungeon Master for Atari 8bit will be a big challenge. I played that on Amiga and it is a great game. It was a convincing and atmospheric 3D environment. The sounds helped a lot too. You could hear chains rattling in the distance for example. I'm pretty sure stereo was used. Without stereo, an Atari 8bit could simulate distance but not direction.

The graphics posted here are wonderful. If that sample play picture is any indication, the graphics can be done.

As much as I love Dungeon Master, I think that a Dungeon Master-inspired Atari 8bit game would be better than a port. The coders could be creative in ways suited to the 8bit hardware and not be constrained by attempting to mimic a game programmed on 16bit hardware with superior graphics, speed, memory, and sound.

[R4ngerM4n]

Good news!

But why is the brickwork not grey as it is in the original game? Are the movies shown just proof of concept demos?

[Tezz]

R4ngerM4n, on Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:01 AM, said:

Good news!

But why is the brickwork not grey as it is in the original game? Are the movies shown just proof of concept demos?

Hi, the dungeon colours are chosen by Vega in the early stages of working on the procedures, the graphics will evolve as things progress along. The avi grabs that Miker made are from the work in progress build 0.15 from last year. Vega has been very busy since and we are now starting to continue from where we were up to.

[Bryan]

The large sprites are very cool, but I wonder how the game will handle having multiple monsters visible (flicker?, color reduction?). Looks really good, though.

Here's the other thread, btw..

http://www.atariage....irsty-for-some/

[Rybags]

From memory, the monsters just animate in place like in Alternate Reality.

So, it's for effect and not really critical to the gameplay, but would of course enhance the overall experience.

I think that a brick colour other than grey can only be a good thing.

Edited by Rybags, Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:59 AM.

[Bryan]

Rybags, on Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:58 AM, said:

From memory, the monsters just animate in place like in Alternate Reality.

Yeah, but there are places where you're staring into a room with several of them in view. I'll have to see if I can find some DM screenshots that shows it.

[José Pereira]

This one posted in AtariOnline from ST version with 3Monsters:


José Pereira.

[qix_maniac]

One of my all-time favorite game for Atari ST.

I'll buy it for 8-bit for sure! Sign me up!

I played Dungeon Master 2 which was release for PC... that was great also! Loved that dragon steak!!!

[svenski]

Looking pretty good!

[Bill_Loguidice]

Looks like amazing an amazing port, though your statement about the original being the first real-time RPG is way off...

Anyway, looking forward to this one!

[Creature XL]

Bill_Loguidice, on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:17 AM, said:

Looks like amazing an amazing port, though your statement about the original being the first real-time RPG is way off...

Don't blame him:

http://en.wikipedia...._(computer_game)

Maybe he forgot the "3d"?

[Bill_Loguidice]

Creature XL, on Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:35 AM, said:

Bill_Loguidice, on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:17 AM, said:

Looks like amazing an amazing port, though your statement about the original being the first real-time RPG is way off...

Don't blame him:

http://en.wikipedia...._(computer_game)

Maybe he forgot the "3d"?

I'd still put a game like Dungeons Of Daggorath, for instance, in there first even with the "3D" qualifier, though it's really unimportant who was "first" doing something. Splitting hairs, really (and in fact, if you REALLY want to split hairs, his statement could be 100% correct as it probably was the first "for Atari ST and other 16-bit computers", just not the first of its type). The real point is how unbelievable this conversion is looking. I blogged about it on Armchair Arcade as well.

Edited by Bill_Loguidice, Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:51 AM.

[Shawn Jefferson]

Awesome!

PS. So what was the first realtime (ie. not turn-based) 3D Dungeon crawl?

[Goochman]

Alternate Reality?

Ultima II had a 3D maze portion and I guess Wizardy as well. Both not turn based per se.

Edited by Goochman, Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:01 PM.

[Bill_Loguidice]

Again, take your pick and what nuance you want to use to define it, but the first real-time 3D RPG of similar overall design to "Dungeon Master" is probably either "Dungeons of Daggorath", which came out in 1982 for the CoCo, or "Treasure of Tarmin", which came out in 1983 for the Intellivision and Aquarius. Honestly, though, I never considered "Dungeon Master" real-time, since it's not real-time 100% of the time, much like those other games. 3D maze games - more like first person shooters than RPGs - was a game design type that's been around since the 70's.

[JamesD]

Akalabeth came out in 1979 but I'm not sure I'd call it real time... it was written in BASIC.

[Bill_Loguidice]

"Akalabeth" and games like it are all turn-based. To be considered real-time, there needs to be some type of real-time element, meaning actions that take place independent of input from the player (for instance, a monster continuing to attack you), which is why people often call the games I mentioned, including "Dungeon Master" real-time, even though the "walk" cycles are tile-based (step-by-step, rather than smooth movement). Again, games with 3D elements/1st person perspective have been available since at least 1974 with games like "Maze War", and that's a completely different discussion.

[emkay]

"Realtime" is the key.

This can be for example:

The enemy is doing his moves -with or without your - move to be done.

In short terms, a game where a timer (in seconds) is counting, while you play the game , is the easiest version of "realtime.

Games like Starraiders go one step ahead. There is something more strategic going on in the background.

Best "realtime" Action on the A8 is build into The Last Starfighter, where real strategic is going on. do nothing and you will die soon .... only fueling the ship will let you lose the game aswell. Cause the enemies move from solar system to solar system, they destroy the barrier and move on to every planet, destroying all citys....

"Realtime" is also the difference between Drop Zone (full realtime) and Turrican (full trigger) ....

The faster the CPU, the more realtime stuff can be handled.

[DarkLord]

"first 3D realtime action computer role-playing game"

I think is exactly right. Not knocking Dungeons of D.,
but I think the above statement stands.

[Bill_Loguidice]

DarkLord, on Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:11 AM, said:

"first 3D realtime action computer role-playing game"

I think is exactly right. Not knocking Dungeons of D.,
but I think the above statement stands.

On what basis? And if you don't like Dungeons of Daggorath, then what about say, Treasure of Tarmin? The "3D" in Dungeon Master is still just sprites, albeit able to be shown from multiple angles. It's merely another generation or two of technology, not really a gameplay differential.

[emkay]

Bill_Loguidice, on Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:17 AM, said:

On what basis? And if you don't like Dungeons of Daggorath, then what about say, Treasure of Tarmin?

No hint about "realtime" in that game.

Edited by emkay, Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 PM.

[Bill_Loguidice]

emkay, on Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:37 PM, said:

Bill_Loguidice, on Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:17 AM, said:

On what basis? And if you don't like Dungeons of Daggorath, then what about say, Treasure of Tarmin?

No hint about "realtime" in that game.

There is. For instance, in combat, if you don't make a move in a certain amount of time, you'll be attacked. Again, "realtime" is used a bit loosely in these types of games, Dungeon Master included.

[DarkLord]

Okay, I wiki'ed both of the games mentioned aside from Dungeon Master.

According to the wiki, and discussions, neither of these games encompass
all that DM does. DOD doesn't appear to be a true RPG, while TOT only
gives the "feel" of 3D.

Just my 2 cents worth from the wiki entries. YMMV.

[Bill_Loguidice]

Yeah, seems like splitting hairs to minimize DoD's RPG elements or ToT's 3D visuals just to give the nod to DM. That's the equivalent of saying Quake was the first 3D first person shooter because all such games that came before it were made up of sprites and "faked it" as opposed to Quake's use of polygons and a full 3D level design. Again, all DM really is is just a natural technological evolution of what came before. They all achieved pretty much the same effect, just with technology contemporary to their time. Regardless, as was stated, it's all in how one wants to define it. I'm sure I could come up with other examples besides DoD and ToT if I really tried that preceded DM, but honestly, I'm not interested in putting that kind of effort in at the moment.