248 replies to this topic

[goatdan]

Dan Iacovelli, on Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:03 PM, said:

well in that case I will make sure my pre-order will be in before the deadline, money is tied up in other stuff now
as well being tight on cash, but I can be sure to have it in by december.
the harmony cart did come with a usb,but that for the full package, with sd card and usb (at 75.00,I went with the basic just the cart and instructions)
have GSP thought of getting the rights to sell those.

Not yet, but we're always open to additional projects! Have them send me the info (or send it to me to contact them) if you think I should explore it (or anything you see) more.

[busterm]

goatdan, on Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:08 PM, said:

busterm, on Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:53 AM, said:

Is there any way you would be willing to list the actual #'s you need to start production and how far you are away from it. Some user might be enticed to buy or those who purchased to pick up a second if we knew how close or not you were to the goal.

Let's put it this way -- The big thing is that we're trying to gauge demand the best that we can. The second batch of these was about 100 (take away a few random ones that didn't work from the factory) and they sold out almost immediately. I've seen those sell for $250+ since that point. We don't know if there is a need for 25, 50, 100, or 1000 of these. We're going to let the presale go until December 1st, and we're going to put them into production close to that date based on how many pre-orders we have because with the price they cost, we can't sit on an inventory of 50 of these, but we also don't want to run out.

As of right now, we're about 20 purchases away from hitting the first major tier. If we reach that and surpass it, the next level is about 17 more. 100 is really the magic number, as that is where the cost for these really comes in line with where we priced them. If we can't make at least 100, the post-December 1st price point is probably going to have to rise significantly ($20ish) to cover DOAs and stuff like that. If we can make 100, the price break is good, and we're hoping to make the post December 1st price rise only a very minor amount.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

Thanks for the info. I just placed my order. I have a Rev2 already but really who can have enough

[ls650]

For those of you who don't have a Skunkboard and are wondering if it is worth it, I have to give it a big thumbs up. I bought a Skunk rev 2 last year and I have gotten a tremendous amount of usage out of it for checking out various homebrews, prototypes, and such. It is really an invaluable addition to a Jaguar collection!

[Dan Iacovelli]

goatdan, on Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:09 PM, said:

Dan Iacovelli, on Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:03 PM, said:

well in that case I will make sure my pre-order will be in before the deadline, money is tied up in other stuff now
as well being tight on cash, but I can be sure to have it in by december.
the harmony cart did come with a usb,but that for the full package, with sd card and usb (at 75.00,I went with the basic just the cart and instructions)
have GSP thought of getting the rights to sell those.

Not yet, but we're always open to additional projects! Have them send me the info (or send it to me to contact them) if you think I should explore it (or anything you see) more.

contact al or batari here on atariage.
I know the harmony sold well based on the waiting list and afterwords.
heres the harmony cart forum section link: http://www.atariage....mony-cartridge/

[Tursi]

You can always review the FAQ here: http://harmlesslion.....php?f=12&t=330

or the manual here: http://www.harmlessl.../software/skunk

Anyone who wants to develop the USB ports is welcome to write the drivers, it's a development tool, after all. Much more productive than sneering that they aren't already done.

Edited by Tursi, Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:59 PM.

[Starcat]

@goatdan:
While I fully understand that you and Tursi don't want to support piracy, there is another legit way to use the skunkboard...
As a possible platform for future games, that are designed for the skunk.
If enough people decide to get a skunkboard, this may really be a good option for digital distribution of games for the Jag. Afterall you can lock programs to a skunkboard, so piracy would not be a concern there.

Just thought, you may want to mention that as well, as it could open up new possibilities for the Jaguar development community if there are enough users out there to make it worthwhile.

Edited by Starcat, Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:29 AM.

[viMaster]

Actually, a really good point you made there, Starcat.

In previous runs of the Skunkboard, that was also one of the selling points and it should be reiterated with this generation.
The Skunkboard is a great way for game distribution. As starcat mentioned, there are ways to use copy protection and it's certainly a cheaper way to get your games out instead of going with a full-on cartridge. You could also distribute both ways -- cart for those who like having physical property and a rom serialized to your skunk for those who just want to play.

I absolutely love my skunks (have rev 1 & 2) and they've been extremely helpful with development
I'll be ordering a skunk 3.

[goatdan]

Starcat, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:27 AM, said:

@goatdan:
While I fully understand that you and Tursi don't want to support piracy, there is another legit way to use the skunkboard...
As a possible platform for future games, that are designed for the skunk.
If enough people decide to get a skunkboard, this may really be a good option for digital distribution of games for the Jag. Afterall you can lock programs to a skunkboard, so piracy would not be a concern there.

Just thought, you may want to mention that as well, as it could open up new possibilities for the Jaguar development community if there are enough users out there to make it worthwhile.

I do definitely agree with it being a great way to support new releases, and I'm sorry that I didn't point that out further! But it definitely is. After this run is finished, theoretically there will be over 200 of these boards in circulation, in the hands of the most active Jaguar collectors. It creates a GREAT market to release games to digitally.

It's also worth mentioning that the way the SkunkBoard is handled, it allows for developers to potentially do things that normal cartridges for the Jaguar couldn't have handled. So, who knows what will happen in the future!

Also, I just wanted to clarify one other point while I'm typing -- the potential SkunkBoard Rev 2 issue about it burning out the Flash memory has been clarified a little more to me, and to be clear if you have one of these you shouldn't be living in fear that one day it will just implode. The set of circumstances to make this occur seem to be extremely rare, it just happens to be the only major feature that is being changed to make the board go from Rev 2 to Rev 3. Otherwise, this would be SkunkBoard Rev 2 Round 2

[Sauron]

I think it's funny that people are saying digital distribution of games for the Jag is something in the future when it is actually a reality now.

[goatdan]

Sauron, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 7:19 AM, said:

I think it's funny that people are saying digital distribution of games for the Jag is something in the future when it is actually a reality now.

I do know about those, I mean that it could even be a potential way that developers could charge for their games, and release them specifically that way. It would cost a lot less than doing an expensive cartridge run, that's for sure!

And yup, those are some games that you can play immediately after you receive your board!

[Tyrant]

Unless people are trying to charge silly amounts of money for their games, surely shareware / donationware is just as good an option?

It's not like anyone is ever going to make a profit making Jag games again, is it?

[goatdan]

Tyrant, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 8:14 AM, said:

Unless people are trying to charge silly amounts of money for their games, surely shareware / donationware is just as good an option?

It's not like anyone is ever going to make a profit making Jag games again, is it?

Let's put it this way -- It's up to them. A number of new games have been released in the past few years, like Mad Bodies, Painter, Gorf, and so on. This gives the developers another option of a way they can release those games, without having to do the cartridge way if they so choose. Of course, there is nothing stopping them from making them free if that is what they wish to do too.

[Sauron]

In reality, the Jagware and Reboot teams have hit the future (and the now) of Jag homebrew releases. Release games for free for those who are more interested in just playing the games while still making carts and/or CDs for the collectors.

[Tyrant]

goatdan, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 8:29 AM, said:

Let's put it this way -- It's up to them. A number of new games have been released in the past few years, like Mad Bodies, Painter, Gorf, and so on. This gives the developers another option of a way they can release those games, without having to do the cartridge way if they so choose. Of course, there is nothing stopping them from making them free if that is what they wish to do too.

Hmm... MadBodies and Gorf were only on sale for a very limited time as I recall, and both surrounded by far too much drama. Painter was released so long ago that the first version wasn't encrypted, and I seem to recall the full source to it was released shortly afterwards. The same model has been used for all the other recent releases that I can recall: sell a copy cheaply, while also giving it away for people to try. The only exception are large cart-only games such as the recent release of AirCars Beta. It's a model that seems to work from what I can see, games still sell remarkably well despite being available free and legally, whereas the games where people have been worried about piracy have all flopped from what I can tell.

[Goochman]

Quick history update - Gorf and MadBodies sold well until copyright issues were discovered - that was the reason for the pull.

[Tyrant]

"Copyright issues"? What'cha mean?

[Goochman]

Tyrant, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 8:45 AM, said:

"Copyright issues"? What'cha mean?

Gorf was owned by Midway - theres alot more to the story I wont bother with, but that is the end of the Gorf release

Mad Bodies was shipped with a tune from an author without their explicit permission which ended that release. Mad Bodies was supposedly going to be changed to remove said tune but the re-release has not happened.

[sh3-rg]

No, please don't go there :/ Let's keep this positive & about the supercool skunkIII soon coming our way!

[Tyrant]

Ah, yes, I had heard about that and forgotten again, sorry for bringing it up.

As mentioned in the other thread, the skunk would be cool if it didn't try to stop you running things on some hidden blacklist. I'll stick with my alpine and the new flash cart from Zerosquare et al (that thing needs a proper name).

[goatdan]

Tyrant, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 8:52 AM, said:

Ah, yes, I had heard about that and forgotten again, sorry for bringing it up.

As mentioned in the other thread, the skunk would be cool if it didn't try to stop you running things on some hidden blacklist. I'll stick with my alpine and the new flash cart from Zerosquare et al (that thing needs a proper name).

If you want to pirate warez, then yup -- the SkunkBoard isn't your option. If you're doing legitimate stuff, the blacklist has no impact on your use of it.

[Sauron]

goatdan, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 12:43 PM, said:

If you want to pirate warez, then yup -- the SkunkBoard isn't your option. If you're doing legitimate stuff, the blacklist has no impact on your use of it.

In all honesty, I think the concern is more about titles possibly being locked out that may not necessarily belong on a blacklist of any kind.

[Tyrant]

I've stated my position on the whole "OMG PIRATES!!1" issue many times before, but to summarise again: I am a collector, and will buy games when they're affordable, but I have no problem at all in using emulation to play games I don't have yet. How else could I determine what they're worth to me and if it's worth actively pursuing them? I don't condone piracy of games still commercially available, and in fact just bought a copy of Total Carnage at JFUK last weekend, where I saw a skunk refuse to play an unreleased beta which it should really have run as nobody is making money off it and there's no reason for it to be "protected".

But I have no interest in re-starting old flamewars, I just dislike it when the Jag scene gets worked up over this issue as it's so tired and so pointless.

Edited by Tyrant, Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:09 PM.

[Tursi]

"Digital distribution" is not the same as "freeware downloads". There were games available for download before Jagware and Reboot came along. When people talk about the potential of the Skunkboard for future distribution methods, they are talking about commercial titles using the hardware to reduce piracy.

While I don't expect we'll see much of that, the possibility is there for any developer interested.

Skunkboard (rev 2 and 3) can run 6MB carts without modification (if any are ever created), and is the only existing or planned add-on since the Alpine that can do this, as far as I know. 6MB is the Jag's maximum cartridge size without bank switching.

Games written specifically for the Skunkboard 2 or 3 can also use 8MB of flash by specifically switching the two 4MB banks. If you want to go bigger, you can tether to the PC over the USB cable, which will permit you to load code and data at will from the PC (works on all revs). It can even save in that case - there is full bi-directional communication. The included Skunklib has basic functionality for file access and Seb from the Removers was working on an even more advanced I/O system (though I can't see if it was integrated into their library..)

Beyond that, there's a working GDB stub for the 68k to aid debugging, as well as fast turnaround time for debug (personally I love being able to reset the Jaguar without reaching for it, since mine is kind of buried). You can upload your permanent data to flash and run your code from RAM for the fastest testing.

As for the evil blacklist, as Dan mentioned, unless you are pirating games, it won't bite you. And if you are pirating current games, that's your own problem. In the five years since release, with over 150 boards in distribution, nobody has produced a single false positive to me. Actually nobody has produced any hits for it to me at all.

We actually started a compatibility list over at the JS2 Wiki, but it didn't get a lot of updates. Maybe there's a more public Jag Wiki somewhere?

[Tursi]

Sauron, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:06 PM, said:

goatdan, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 12:43 PM, said:

If you want to pirate warez, then yup -- the SkunkBoard isn't your option. If you're doing legitimate stuff, the blacklist has no impact on your use of it.

In all honesty, I think the concern is more about titles possibly being locked out that may not necessarily belong on a blacklist of any kind.

The odds are very low. If you find one, let me know and I'll fix it. I've stated this many times.

Test me now, if you have one.

[Tursi]

Tyrant, on Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:08 PM, said:

weekend, where I saw a skunk refuse to play an unreleased beta which it should really have run as nobody is making money off it and there's no reason for it to be "protected".

But you can't provide the name of the beta or give me a way to get access to it, so that I can fix the problem? Instead, you just diss the feature, over and over again.

Since it was a beta, and we have repeatedly stated that no betas are on the blacklist, it stands to reason that it's a bug. I am actively fixing bugs - especially now is a good time since the new board will get a new BIOS. The "nobody is making money off it" argument is meaningless, though. I don't care about that, only the wishes of the copyright holders.

It's just hearsay until we are given an opportunity to correct it.