Druid 2 title screen

[atarian63]

That would be comparing Apples and Oranges. The image mentioned in this thread is non-dithered and non-interlaced so the comparison should be with an A8 non-dithered non-interlaced image.

 

I was not making a strictly technical point. Once emkay and/or a few others start the C-64 bashing, threads like this tend to degenerate into an 80s "my-computer-is-better-than-yours" slugfest. Those can be fun to watch but I am more interested in the original premise of the thread: what is the best way to port the picture in question to the A8? Comparing and contrasting with the C-64 for the purpose of sussing out that method serves the discussion. Questioning the intelligence of C-64 graphicians and coders and prodding them to demonstrate one's A8 manliness does not.

Actually it usually starts with STE provocation and pro c64 comments on an Atari site. He should tune it down several notches and there would be no problem. I see several of the other "usual suspects" from that crowd are here

[+Stephen]

while u are at it get g2f to convert that:

 

 

i am interested to see what g2f will do to that with experienced user intervention. in it auto mode it makes a right hash of it

 

Steve

Nice pic

[Tezz]

while u are at it get g2f to convert that:

 

 

i am interested to see what g2f will do to that with experienced user intervention. in it auto mode it makes a right hash of it

 

Steve

Here's a very quick incomplete conversion before I call it a night. It needs a little further work to finish it.

Karate_Kid_STE\'86.xex

[STE'86]

 

Actually it usually starts with STE provocation and pro c64 comments on an Atari site. He should tune it down several notches and there would be no problem. I see several of the other "usual suspects" from that crowd are here

 

actually would you like to quote where i have been pro 64 or anti a8?

 

actually what I did was call out someone for saying that converting that druid 2 pic was "easy" when i know it isnt.

and said person then says he can't do it. so how exactly would he know if it was easy or not?

 

Actually you sir can go and boil your head. ...actually

 

 

 

@tezz. thats not a bad start. much better than "auto" the darkest brown/orange needs raking down a few notches to give it a bit more "punch" and the mid blue needs a bit of "umph" on the chroma side if possible, but thats better than i expected tbh. well done

 

Steve

Edited October 1, 2010 by STE'86

[Heaven/TQA]

while u are at it get g2f to convert that:

 

 

i am interested to see what g2f will do to that with experienced user intervention. in it auto mode it makes a right hash of it

 

Steve

Here's a very quick incomplete conversion before I call it a night. It needs a little further work to finish it.

 

not bad... but can you avoid the "white" color for the skins?

 

and regarding tutorial.

 

Sure we need as we "novice" users need to get trained for such a tool to really understand how it works... of course you can look on the example pics included but to see one converted step by step makes more sense to get the "aha" effect.

[Tezz]

Whenever I convert any pictures I make sure to respect the other peoples work and just convert them "as is" without making any alterations and use creativity in my own work however as the discussion here is about how pictures can possibly look with our palette, here's just a quick and simple recolour on that incomplete conversion.

[emkay]

Whenever I convert any pictures I make sure to respect the other peoples work and just convert them "as is" without making any alterations and use creativity in my own work however as the discussion here is about how pictures can possibly look with our palette, here's just a quick and simple recolour on that incomplete conversion.

 

 

Wrong thinking with the colours, i guess. Daniel is an italian and Mr. Miagi is a japanese. You can easily leave the brownisch colours. No need to add a pink one.

 

Whats more impressive, is a repaint to override the palette with 2 different "browns" ... why not using 4 browns instead of 2 and remove most of the transitions. Dependingh on the palette, we don't need that much "brightnesss" transitions.

[STE'86]

no sorry now you have ruined it.

 

what has to be grasped is that you don't always have to have a "proper" chroma fade in order to fool the eye into thinking its seeing multiple tones.

 

in fact insisting on real colour fades generally only really causes a "mono" look in which the artists has used 4 shades of blue 4 shades of grey etc and basically run out of colours in short order (this used to happen alot on the first ST/amiga games when artists went OTT with the new colour availability.

 

however you can get by, by using a couple of shades of grey or brown to double as highlight and shadow for many different colours of a similar luma scale thereby freeing a couple of colours slots for use elsewhere to add more "punch"

 

and lets face it, on the 8 bits freeing a couple of colours for use elsewhere is a godsend.

 

Steve

[Rybags]

How about - go back to previous with the faces, and give them some different colours in the collars.

[José Pereira]

no sorry now you have ruined it.

 

Steve

 

Why?

It sems better than Gray, although, I will go for 1 more brown instead of Pink.

 

If one is Italian and other Japonese will go later, if I have colours/PMs to do it...

 

 

 

 

José Pereira.

[STE'86]

no sorry now you have ruined it.

 

Steve

 

Why?

It sems better than Gray, although, I will go for 1 more brown instead of Pink.

 

If one is Italian and other Japonese will go later, if I have colours/PMs to do it...

 

José Pereira.

 

Because:

 

a) the same grey you have replaced can be used elsewhere in the pic to provide colour in the hair or the headband and thereby freeing colours for the collar.

 

b) the pink looks awful

 

honestly u need to stop obsessing about "true" chroma fades, u havent got the colour capability on screen to do that well enough. your stuff will always look "mono" if you do.

Edited October 1, 2010 by STE'86

[Tezz]

It was just supposed to be a quick example? It's not a chroma fade btw Steve, it uses red through to $4A. I'm well aware that doing so creates a mono look

[STE'86]

no it wasnt a chroma fade but others on here favour that it seems.

 

it is however a waste of a huge swathe of colour that can't easily be used elsewhere.

 

steve

Edited October 1, 2010 by STE'86

[emkay]

It was just supposed to be a quick example? It's not a chroma fade btw Steve, it uses red through to $4A. I'm well aware that doing so creates a mono look

 

 

The colours remind me of ST colour usage. The image looks better "together" than this overshining white. The pink is way off ...

[Tezz]

no it wasnt a chroma fade but others on here favour that it seems.

 

it is however a waste of a huge swathe of colour that can't easily be used elsewhere.

 

steve

Yea it's a big bug bear of mine too on the old A8 stuff, it seems that many favoured just using 3/4 shades of the same hue.

[emkay]

no it wasnt a chroma fade but others on here favour that it seems.

 

it is however a waste of a huge swathe of colour that can't easily be used elsewhere.

 

steve

Yea it's a big bug bear of mine too on the old A8 stuff, it seems that many favoured just using 3/4 shades of the same hue.

 

 

If you change the hue, you'd have to do it continously.

 

 

This one now looks like brownish skinned people with a violett biased lightsource.

[+Philsan]

Wonderful film.

I played a lot Karate Kid Part II for Amiga.

[Divya16]

 

At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours.

 

Oh dear.....Here we go again......

 

And anyway C-64 has some methods for exploiting display behavior to get around the limited palette to an often impressive extent:

 

http://www.studiostyle.sk/dmagic/gallery/gfxmodes.htm

 

Which seems to me quite the use of intelligence so can you please can the anti-C64 fanboi rants?

 

That would be comparing Apples and Oranges. The image mentioned in this thread is non-dithered and non-interlaced so the comparison should be with an A8 non-dithered non-interlaced image.

 

Not really, if you are going to bugger about using all your DLI bandwidth, player AND missile graphics to display an image what difference does it make what CPU hogging screen mode you use on the C64 to exceed the design compromises.

 

Time and again it's the same argument. A8 has shit colour resolution, C64 has shit palette available. Both situations can be improved by maxing out your CPU and using a bit of your IQ whilst sitting in front of your ASM package on either, simple as that really. Getting incredibly dull now...like the bum on the street blaming society for his lack of wealth/expensive possessions blah blah.

 

@emkay....true intelligence is understanding how EVERY machine works and the LIMITATIONS of ALL of them

 

You have a problem understanding. Nobody is "buggering" about DLI bandwidth. It's a static image-- use whatever bandwidth you have available since otherwise it's wasted. The pixel quality is more important than how much processing power you use. Real colors are better than interlaced or dithered colors. Interlaced are somewhere in between real colors and spatially dithered depending on the colors/shades involved. A8 has more color depth and more colors.

 

So it is comparing Apple and oranges to compare interlaced/dithered stuff with real color image. QED.

[oky2000]

Actually it usually starts with STE provocation and pro c64 comments on an Atari site. He should tune it down several notches and there would be no problem. I see several of the other "usual suspects" from that crowd are here

 

Hope that's not aimed at me as I'm not pro or anti anything. I happen to own all these machines (most in multiple versions like 800xl/65xe/130xe etc) and I just call it as I see it. The C64 vs A8 thread could be boiled down to just two comments.

 

1. A8 has difficulty getting excessive numbers of indexed colours on screen anywhere (ie not DLIs) but has a great colour palette.

2. C64 has only 16 colours but many many games use all 16 colours at once on screen due to the way the display is split into 4x8 pixel char cells.

 

And that's just how it is. ALL 8 bits are a compromise, even the C65 (which has great proper 256 screen mode and 4096 palette but no DACs for proper sampled sound so it's somewhere between C64 and Amiga 500/1000/2000/CDTV). My point was merely BOTH machines have tricks up their sleeve to improve the situation and NEITHER can do games in those CPU intensive screen modes that significantly overcome their design specification as intended to be used.

 

I just call it as I see it, and well A8 vs C64 is a lot closer a call than EGA/CGA PC XT vs Mac 128k vs 520ST vs Amiga 1000. Simple order and based in technical fact

 

Fanboys are always welcome to ignore my factual comments and actual working examples of code (as opposed to ASM daydreams that exist only in peoples' heads) and I am here because I like using my ST, VCS and my A8 machines. The fact I own every machine ever made that displays a PAL video signal is neither here nor there really.

[oky2000]

 

At 1st you have to lose all intelligence , to count 16 colours as 64 colours.

 

Oh dear.....Here we go again......

 

And anyway C-64 has some methods for exploiting display behavior to get around the limited palette to an often impressive extent:

 

http://www.studiostyle.sk/dmagic/gallery/gfxmodes.htm

 

Which seems to me quite the use of intelligence so can you please can the anti-C64 fanboi rants?

 

That would be comparing Apples and Oranges. The image mentioned in this thread is non-dithered and non-interlaced so the comparison should be with an A8 non-dithered non-interlaced image.

 

Not really, if you are going to bugger about using all your DLI bandwidth, player AND missile graphics to display an image what difference does it make what CPU hogging screen mode you use on the C64 to exceed the design compromises.

 

Time and again it's the same argument. A8 has shit colour resolution, C64 has shit palette available. Both situations can be improved by maxing out your CPU and using a bit of your IQ whilst sitting in front of your ASM package on either, simple as that really. Getting incredibly dull now...like the bum on the street blaming society for his lack of wealth/expensive possessions blah blah.

 

@emkay....true intelligence is understanding how EVERY machine works and the LIMITATIONS of ALL of them

 

You have a problem understanding. Nobody is "buggering" about DLI bandwidth. It's a static image-- use whatever bandwidth you have available since otherwise it's wasted. The pixel quality is more important than how much processing power you use. Real colors are better than interlaced or dithered colors. Interlaced are somewhere in between real colors and spatially dithered depending on the colors/shades involved. A8 has more color depth and more colors.

 

So it is comparing Apple and oranges to compare interlaced/dithered stuff with real color image. QED.

 

No my point is people are saying it is not right to compare something like IFLI etc trick modes from the C64 to your trick modes on an A8 to overcome the limited on screen colour resolution that Atari thought was still acceptable in 1985 in the 65/130XE sorry. Both are only separated by 18 months in reality (SID and VIC-II designed for the Commodore arcade board....which later became the C64 after a change of mind) and 4 or 5 colours on screen was fine in 1980 and so was more colours on screen but only 16 to choose from.

 

So my comment stands, if you are going to be doing trick modes on one to improve the limited on screen colours of the A8 it IS valid to compare images using trick modes to improve the limited palette of the C64. So oranges and oranges or apples and apples. Or banana up your butt if you're going to be obtuse about it lol

[Irgendwer]

Time and again it's the same argument. A8 has shit colour resolution, C64 has shit palette available. Both situations can be improved by maxing out your CPU and using a bit of your IQ whilst sitting in front of your ASM package on either, simple as that really.

 

You maybe correct in respect to the CPU usage, but I have to admit that I do not like the flickering of interlace - on any machine.

So I would prefer reduced but stable colours on the C64 too.

 

However, here is something to watch and hear. (Of course I'm no newscaster and have instead of that a cheap head-set. )

Hope you like it anyway (especially my German accent ):

Part 1:

Part 2:

 

(3, 4 and G2F-file next week)

Edited October 1, 2010 by Irgendwer

[Heaven/TQA]

Video rocks! Kudos!

[Heaven/TQA]

I can provide english version of PSP XI...

[Xuel]

(3, 4 and G2F-file next week)

 

Great tutorial! I look forward to the next installments.

[atarian63]

 

Actually it usually starts with STE provocation and pro c64 comments on an Atari site. He should tune it down several notches and there would be no problem. I see several of the other "usual suspects" from that crowd are here

 

actually would you like to quote where i have been pro 64 or anti a8?

 

actually what I did was call out someone for saying that converting that druid 2 pic was "easy" when i know it isnt.

and said person then says he can't do it. so how exactly would he know if it was easy or not?

 

Actually you sir can go and boil your head. ...actually

 

It's your usual trolling ways that you so often do here.. So.. go back to your rectal cranial inversion.

 

@tezz. thats not a bad start. much better than "auto" the darkest brown/orange needs raking down a few notches to give it a bit more "punch" and the mid blue needs a bit of "umph" on the chroma side if possible, but thats better than i expected tbh. well done

 

Steve

 

It's your usual trolling ways that you so often do here.. So.. go back to your rectal cranial inversion.