110 replies to this topic

[kevincal]

ya and even though the jag doom was short some levels, theres still 24, plenty imo. and ya avp is great for sure. but so is alien trilogy on the ps and saturn

[Hyper_Eye]

Syfo-Dyas, on Wed Nov 3, 2010 11:25 PM, said:

Was the PSX & Saturn versions the only one to feature Ultimate DOOM back in the day. I recall the Jag version was the short 8 or so stage version that originally released on PC in 1993.

You are referring to the free shareware release which was all the levels of the first episode. Jagdoom has many of the levels found in the first 3 episodes that were in the original release of Doom (pre-Ultimate Doom). It also has levels that were not on the PC. Jagdoom is only a couple of levels short of the number that were in Doom1. Granted, some of them had to have chunks of the levels edited out. Still, it is not nearly as short as shareware Doom.

[GKC]

Okay not the Doom of the topic but I picked up a Saturn yesterday and got Doom with it. After playing it I have to say that the Jag version is far superior, not that anyone is surprised by this. It is cool to have Doom II included but there is something seriously wrong with the frame rates of the Saturn versions. Sure it has music but what good is music if the frame rates almost make it unplayable? Also it is full screen unlike its 32x counter part. Oh well there are plenty of great cames to play on the Saturn but when I get the urge to kill some monsters on Mars I know where to turn.... Jaguar

[Austin]

GKC, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:34 PM, said:

Okay not the Doom of the topic but I picked up a Saturn yesterday and got Doom with it. After playing it I have to say that the Jag version is far superior, not that anyone is surprised by this. It is cool to have Doom II included but there is something seriously wrong with the frame rates of the Saturn versions. Sure it has music but what good is music if the frame rates almost make it unplayable? Also it is full screen unlike its 32x counter part. Oh well there are plenty of great cames to play on the Saturn but when I get the urge to kill some monsters on Mars I know where to turn.... Jaguar

Yeah, like stated earlier in the thread, it's basically a botched port of the PlayStation game. It's too bad, as technically I think the Saturn could have handled it flawlessly.

If you like the general feel and atmosphere of the Saturn game but want a solid framerate, pick up the PlayStation version. You will thoroughly enjoy it.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Hyper_Eye, on Thu Nov 4, 2010 9:33 AM, said:

Syfo-Dyas, on Wed Nov 3, 2010 11:25 PM, said:

Was the PSX & Saturn versions the only one to feature Ultimate DOOM back in the day. I recall the Jag version was the short 8 or so stage version that originally released on PC in 1993.

You are referring to the free shareware release which was all the levels of the first episode. Jagdoom has many of the levels found in the first 3 episodes that were in the original release of Doom (pre-Ultimate Doom). It also has levels that were not on the PC. Jagdoom is only a couple of levels short of the number that were in Doom1. Granted, some of them had to have chunks of the levels edited out. Still, it is not nearly as short as shareware Doom.

Hmm, I only remember there being 8 levels in the Jag version, but that was forever ago so my memory sucks.

[Austin]

Syfo-Dyas, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:38 PM, said:

Hmm, I only remember there being 8 levels in the Jag version, but that was forever ago so my memory sucks.

Hm, no, there's definitely around 23, give or take a couple. The only thing I can think of is maybe you tried to scroll through the levels and were, say, only able to go up to level 8 on the selection screen (this would mean level 8 hadn't been completed yet). Once you complete a map, you can start a new game from it at any time, all the way up through the final level (the cart saves it). It's not like 32X DOOM where you can pick almost any stage in the entire game right from the get-go.

[GKC]

Austin, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:32 PM, said:

GKC, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:34 PM, said:

Okay not the Doom of the topic but I picked up a Saturn yesterday and got Doom with it. After playing it I have to say that the Jag version is far superior, not that anyone is surprised by this. It is cool to have Doom II included but there is something seriously wrong with the frame rates of the Saturn versions. Sure it has music but what good is music if the frame rates almost make it unplayable? Also it is full screen unlike its 32x counter part. Oh well there are plenty of great cames to play on the Saturn but when I get the urge to kill some monsters on Mars I know where to turn.... Jaguar

Yeah, like stated earlier in the thread, it's basically a botched port of the PlayStation game. It's too bad, as technically I think the Saturn could have handled it flawlessly.

If you like the general feel and atmosphere of the Saturn game but want a solid framerate, pick up the PlayStation version. You will thoroughly enjoy it.

Yea really there is no reason the Saturn couldn't have pulled it off. Makes one wonder WTH happened? Oh well I didn't get the Saturn to play Doom

[Austin]

GKC, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:54 PM, said:

Oh well I didn't get the Saturn to play Doom

lol, yeah, I hear ya. There are plenty of other awesome games on the Saturn.. But a solid version of DOOM wouldn't have hurt, either.

[wood_jl]

Austin, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:32 PM, said:

GKC, on Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:34 PM, said:

Okay not the Doom of the topic but I picked up a Saturn yesterday and got Doom with it. After playing it I have to say that the Jag version is far superior, not that anyone is surprised by this. It is cool to have Doom II included but there is something seriously wrong with the frame rates of the Saturn versions. Sure it has music but what good is music if the frame rates almost make it unplayable? Also it is full screen unlike its 32x counter part. Oh well there are plenty of great cames to play on the Saturn but when I get the urge to kill some monsters on Mars I know where to turn.... Jaguar

Yeah, like stated earlier in the thread, it's basically a botched port of the PlayStation game. It's too bad, as technically I think the Saturn could have handled it flawlessly.

If you like the general feel and atmosphere of the Saturn game but want a solid framerate, pick up the PlayStation version. You will thoroughly enjoy it.

Agreed! The Playstation version is superb! The strafing on the shoulder buttons has a natural feel to it. PS "Final Doom" has a lot of cool levels to it, as well.

[wood_jl]

wood_jl, on Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:11 PM, said:

Drixxel, on Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:34 PM, said:

wood_jl, on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:36 PM, said:

I do remember that the stock controller wasn't as good for strafing (left shoulder button inaccessible when your hand is on the middle tit, working the analog stick. There was an off-brand controller that was styled more like the Gamecube (rough comparison, mind you) that put the analog stick in its proper place on the left, so you could hit the shoulder button. I'm gonna want another, if I knew what to search for!

A solution you might consider in lieu of finding a swanky controller like the SuperPad is that the controls in Doom 64 are fully customizable. You can remap basically every function, for instance binding 'strafe left' to the z-button for analog control-related joy.

THANK YOU!!! That is the controller I used to have! I wonder what it would take to find a good one in the modern world?

Thanks again for turning me on to that controller. I picked up a couple "new" ones from Ebay. They weren't cheap (had to buy two for $40), and this damn controller is so rare (now) that they never go cheap.


I've been looking since you posted that message, and the only ones I ever saw on Ebay were used ones for $25 or $28 each, so at least the $40 for 2 "new" ones ain't so bad. I was delighted with DOOM 64 and this controller in 1998-ish. Anybody else here sell their old systems and buy them back?
I'm a fool.


Interestingly, someone's selling a "Makopad" that is the same controller in a clear shell, on Ebay now. Not cheap, either.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 170564389531

[Drixxel]

That's awesome, wood_jl! I'm happy that you hunted the SuperPad down. Yeah, it seems like you got a solid deal. I can easily imagine Doom 64 playing quite well with one of those.

[DracIsBack]

GKC, on Tue Nov 2, 2010 10:53 AM, said:

I guess there is a 32x Doom cheat in the Jags NBA Jam that pretty much mocks the 32x's Doom port where the players don't move and just float around the court.

yeah - the programmer used to hang around the usenet groups when he was coding it and was quite the funny guy! That cheat made me laugh because the players are always facing you.

There's another where you play as Prince Charles.

[GKC]

Not sure how many people have seen this but this pretty much ends any debate between the Jag Doom and the 32x Doom:

[Goochman]

The 32x version actually isnt too bad

[GKC]

Goochman, on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:45 PM, said:

The 32x version actually isnt too bad

Doom period is a great game. I have never played the 32x version but from the looks of it, the Jaguar does a great game just a little better.

[Austin]

32X DOOM isn't bad by any means (It seems to get a lot of crap lately for some odd reason), but the Jag version indeed does run circles around it.

[kevincal]

I think maybe the main reason Jag Doom irritates people is that it doesn't have that classic in-game Doom music...

Main reason 32X Doom irritates people is that it has a small screen.

Back in 1994 I really didn't see a whole lot of difference. I actually had the 32X version of Doom while my friend had the Jag version. Back then I was a semi-Sega fanboy lol... I convinced myself that I liked the 32X version better because that was the one I owned! Thinking back, my friends tv was far too dark and I think I was basing my judgement on looks only. I've always been weird about having perfect tv settings so it's possible 32X Doom at my house looked better than Jag Doom at his house. Heh. Back then I didn't notice you couldn't see all sides of the enemies in 32X Doom as I was new to the whole Doom thing. Only a few months later I sold my 32X and bought a Jag! I then bought my friends copy of Jag Doom.

Anyway, about Jag Doom vs N64 Doom. Jag Doom was late 1994, N64 Doom late 1996. Obviously the N64 has more power than the Jag plus N64 Doom developement team was surely much larger than Jag Doom, and probably N64 Doom was in the works A LOT longer than Jag Doom as N64 games tended to be under developement for an eternity. "Quality of Quantity" says Nintendo.

[JagChris]

DracIsBack, on Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:04 PM, said:

GKC, on Tue Nov 2, 2010 10:53 AM, said:

I guess there is a 32x Doom cheat in the Jags NBA Jam that pretty much mocks the 32x's Doom port where the players don't move and just float around the court.

yeah - the programmer used to hang around the usenet groups when he was coding it and was quite the funny guy! That cheat made me laugh because the players are always facing you.

There's another where you play as Prince Charles.

Adisak Pochanayon said:

http://gamesnews.yah...om/news-1392685

'Boom Shakalaka! Jam Through the Years - Yahoo! Video Games
The most accurate version is arguably the Atari Jaguar edition, developed by The Conduit studio High Voltage Software and self-published by Atari. '

That was the project from HELL for me. 1 Programmer and 4 months to port 400,000 lines of assembler. I still have no idea to this day how I was porting 3,000 lines of production quality assembler for 4 months straight.

[Stephen]

GKC, on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:40 PM, said:

Not sure how many people have seen this but this pretty much ends any debate between the Jag Doom and the 32x Doom:

Well I have to say that after watching that, I don't think the 32X version is nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Truth be told, I would take the smaller viewport in exchange for having the music.

[Gunstar]

Stephen, on Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:00 AM, said:

GKC, on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:40 PM, said:

Not sure how many people have seen this but this pretty much ends any debate between the Jag Doom and the 32x Doom:

Well I have to say that after watching that, I don't think the 32X version is nearly as bad as it is made out to be. Truth be told, I would take the smaller viewport in exchange for having the music.

There is a LOT more missing from the 32X version than just having a smaller screen, for example, the sprites are two sided (front and back), the Jaguar sprites are 8 sided (front, back, left, right, L-front, R-front, L-Back, R-back. And that's just ONE example. And I prefer full screen and ALL the extras the Jag has over the 32X, rather than the music with I always felt was lame anyway, and always put on my own music, if I have it at all; If you were really on Mars fighting demons, do you think there would be background music? Is there in Halo? or Halflife? Or any of the new FPS games these days? NO, becuase music in games like this is LAME.

But, you are right, the 32X version overall, isn't bad, it's good. The Jag is just better, in obvious and subtle ways. Just further proof that Doom II could be done on the Jag, even if it means cut-backs from the original

I own both versions and have played both through and 32X Doom, while an acceptable version, has NOTHING over the Jaguar Doom, except lame music in-game. Just record the music from in-between the jag levels and play it back when you play Jag Doom, problem solved.

Edited by Gunstar, Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:49 AM.

[wood_jl]

I don't think there's any question that Jag Doom is better than 32x Doom. It's also given that Saturn Doom sucks.

Of relevance is the Jag Doom vs N64 Doom (hence the thread title), and of interest is how these compare to PS1 Doom.

Regardless, Jag Doom is good, and I remember Jag Wolfenstein 3D being pretty good too.

[Stephen]

wood_jl, on Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:01 PM, said:

Of relevance is the Jag Doom vs N64 Doom (hence the thread title), and of interest is how these compare to PS1 Doom.

N64 Doom > PS1 Doom > Jag Doom

That doesn't mean that all versions are not great.

[Austin]

wood_jl, on Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:01 PM, said:

Of relevance is the Jag Doom vs N64 Doom (hence the thread title), and of interest is how these compare to PS1 Doom.

You're in the Jaguar forum.. Threads are always derailed here..

There's not really much more to say about the N64 version. As to how it compares, it's a different game, period. I don't particularly like comparing it to the other versions because of how different it is. Completely redrawn sprites, completely new levels, completely new (or different) soundtrack, etc. etc. The hardware it's running on is also a good step up from the console ports of the original PC game, so it's bound to have some lighting that's better emphasized. Anyways, overall, some say the game is better than regular DOOM, some say it's worse. I say it's just a newer iteration of DOOM that can be thought more of as DOOM 3, well-prior the modern DOOM 3 existing.

Edit: I forgot I did videos of the PlayStation, Jaguar, and N64 versions of DOOM (Not to mention even the SNES one): PlayStation, Nintendo 64, Jaguar.

[Gunstar]

wood_jl, on Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:01 PM, said:

I don't think there's any question that Jag Doom is better than 32x Doom. It's also given that Saturn Doom sucks.

Of relevance is the Jag Doom vs N64 Doom (hence the thread title), and of interest is how these compare to PS1 Doom.

Regardless, Jag Doom is good, and I remember Jag Wolfenstein 3D being pretty good too.

That side-by-side video of JagDoom vs 32X doesn't do the Jaguar's lighting and subtle color and shadow effects any justice either, it's obviously not done in a high enough color depth or something. The 32X version, on the otherhand, in that video, is pretty spot on. Bottom line, one MUST see them side-by-side IN PERSON to really see how much the Jag version shines over 32X and PC, PS1 and others for that matter, in those above stated areas. JagDoom uses a 16-bit, 65,000 color pallette for it's lighting and shadowing, where as all others (except Doom 64) use 8-bit 256 color depth in their lighting and shading effects. The base texture colors are the same 8-bit in the Jag version, with the lighting and shading applied over top, including sprites and user weapons.

Edited by Gunstar, Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:21 PM.

[Stephen]

Gunstar, on Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:17 PM, said:

wood_jl, on Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:01 PM, said:

I don't think there's any question that Jag Doom is better than 32x Doom. It's also given that Saturn Doom sucks.

Of relevance is the Jag Doom vs N64 Doom (hence the thread title), and of interest is how these compare to PS1 Doom.

Regardless, Jag Doom is good, and I remember Jag Wolfenstein 3D being pretty good too.

That side-by-side video of JagDoom vs 32X doesn't do the Jaguar's lighting and subtle color and shadow effects any justice either, it's obviously not done in a high enough color depth or something. The 32X version, on the otherhand, in that video, is pretty spot on. Bottom line, one MUST see them side-by-side IN PERSON to really see how much the Jag version shines over 32X and PC, PS1 and others for that matter, in those above stated areas. JagDoom uses a 16-bit, 65,000 color pallette for it's lighting and shadowing, where as all others (except Doom 64) use 8-bit 256 color depth in their lighting and shading effects. The base texture colors are the same 8-bit in the Jag version, with the lighting and shading applied over top, including sprites and user weapons.

The Jag is a very nice version - when it came out, it took a $1000 PC to Doom as nicely. That being said, it was only 160*200 while the PSX version was 320*200 (the 200 may have been 240 - doesn't matter, vertical res was the same).

Jag has better lighting, but PSX has double horizontal resolution at the same framerate, and music.