39 replies to this topic

[OLD CS1]

I will get back to my programming thread tomorrow or so. In the meantime, I am looking for a DSDD floppy controller to replace the DSSD TI controller in my Peripheral Expansion Box. I would love to speak with anyone willing to part with such a beast.

Thanks.

(This is probably the wrong forum, I didn't do my homework and will try to move it.)

Edited by OLD CS1, Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:44 PM.

[Opry99er]

I have an old one that I ceased using because the heads started "eating" my disks. It may just need to be cleaned... But I only have a stock TI controller so I wasn't able to get full use out of it anyway... I'm pretty sure it will never go back in my system again... I lost some pretty important sh** and I hate that drive now.

Edited by Opry99er, Tue Nov 9, 2010 2:50 PM.

[matthew180]

Owen, he said "controller" not "drive".

Isn't the stock controller SSSD? I think there is a mod on Mainbyte to upgrade the stock controller to something like SSDD. I'll have to go look. Either way, good luck finding a controller. Also, as far as I'm concerned this is the right place to post such a request.

Matthew

[OLD CS1]

matthew180, on Tue Nov 9, 2010 3:20 PM, said:

Owen, he said "controller" not "drive".

Yeah, I have two half-height DSDD drives in the box, already.

Quote

Isn't the stock controller SSSD? I think there is a mod on Mainbyte to upgrade the stock controller to something like SSDD. I'll have to go look. Either way, good luck finding a controller. Also, as far as I'm concerned this is the right place to post such a request.

Thanks, I'll check out Mainbyte. As for the stock controller, unless I miss it, the manual does not state anything about specifically being single-sided or not. These blurbs:

Quote

Note: At present, only single-sided disk drives (Model PHP1250 and
PHP 1850) are available for use with the TI Disk Memory System. These
drives utilize 5 (1/4) Inch single-sided, single-density diskettes only. For
reference, however, this manual and the Disk Manager Command Module
include information about double-sided, double-density diskettes.

Quote

A double-sided diskette has 80 tracks. The tracks are numbered 0 to 39 on one side.
starting with the outer track. and 40 to 79 on the other side. starting with the inner
track.

Quote

In response to the prompt SINGLE SIDED (Y/N)?, press Y and then press ENTER if you
are using a single-sided disk drive. If both your diskette and disk drive are double-sided,
enter N. (For more Information about diskette types, see page 5 of this manual and your
disk drive manual.)

The information about double-sided drives and disks may just be informational. Now I will have to perform some testing. None the less, my original intent stands: I very much want a DSDD controller

EDIT: I just tested an old floppy disk which works, I *believe* formatted on a stock TI controller, and it shows a size of 718 blocks, which is roughly 179.5k. Since we know the controller is single-density, that *should* be double-sided, yeah? Now, I have not performed a format as I have to find my blank 5.25" floppies. That'll be my next test.

Edited by OLD CS1, Tue Nov 9, 2010 3:49 PM.

[Opry99er]

Gotcha!!! Yes, the TI controller is capable of handling DSSD drives. I thought you were asking about the drives.

I used to have a CorComp 9900 DSDD controller, but traded it for a Horizon RAMDisk. Very happy to have the RAMDisk... It's fast and stores massive amounts of data. Only issue? Battery backed. You better back it up, brother, let me tell you... I lost months of work on the XB Beryl Reichardt game which I've never recovered and never re-programmed. Good luck, buddy.

[marc.hull]

matthew180, on Tue Nov 9, 2010 3:20 PM, said:

Owen, he said "controller" not "drive".

Isn't the stock controller SSSD? I think there is a mod on Mainbyte to upgrade the stock controller to something like SSDD. I'll have to go look. Either way, good luck finding a controller. Also, as far as I'm concerned this is the right place to post such a request.

Matthew

The TI controller can do 2 sides but single (FM) density only

The mod is to make the controller 80 tracks but it is still single density. I tried it for a while but it was pretty unpredictable for me (but a lot of things are......) Bob Carmany has some EPROMS that do the same thing without the kludge of the mod. You still have to pull the old ROMS (and by pull I mean desolder and pull.)

[Mad Hatter]

Marc is correct. The stock TI SIDECAR controller, however, is only capable of handling SS/SD.

[OLD CS1]

Others have already answered the technical question of whether the PHP-1240 can handle double-sided drives, but I dug out a floppy and formatted it to take these pictures, and I hate to see that effort go to waste

FWIW, I have the composite output of the TI run through a powered multi-input switcher which also does conversion to S-VHS (damn well, I might add.) The first picture is of the TV (S-VHS input) and the second is my Dell 2001 20.1" LCD monitor using the composite input. The later is quite ugly and I am now having to rethink my plan of using the LCD monitor for the TI at all -- even the S-VHS input looks crappy.

The plan was to use the DVI input for the MacMini running MorphOS, the SVGA input for the Amiga 2000, the S-VHS input for the Commodore 128D, and the composite input for the TI. Ah, well.

Edit: well you learn something new every day. I did not realize the picture viewer would not resize my 3.2mp pics. Sorry, guys, and I apparently cannot remove them. I will know better for my next post about cartridge storage.

Attached Files

•  DSC03944.JPG   820.86K   18 downloads
•  DSC03945.JPG   870.44K   17 downloads

Edited by OLD CS1, Tue Nov 9, 2010 9:56 PM.

[Opry99er]

Looks great man!! Im using an old DEC monitor which is quite terrible, but it's an original. manufacturing date 9/1982. I have wanted to use a high res flat panel, but now I've decided to wait until I get my very own F18A to replace my 9918A.

Great to see your posts here. We love new members. Something about fresh eyes, I think.

[snume]

OLD CS1, what Disk Manager are you using there? I have DM 2.0 and it looks a bit different.

I am using a Commodore 1702 monitor and it works and looks really good, for both my TI and my ADAM.

On a side note, how many drives can one have attached via the cable plugged in to the internal connector on a stock TI card? Can it only be one? I have successfully been able to use a 3.5" drive as a DSSD drive (as dsk1)and I found that I needed to cover the hole in my HD disks in order to get them to work, but when I tried to connect 2 drives on the cable (either 2 3.5" or 1 3.5" and 1 5.25") there were issues with either both or the second drive. I don't have a cable with the right plug for the external connector and I have kind of assumed the 2 connectors were hooked to the same pins, but I haven't dug that deeply into it yet. I was hoping for a little info before I spent a ton of time on that.

Thanks guys,

Steve

Edited by snume, Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:35 PM.

[Opry99er]

Hey Steve. I have three drives on my TI card.. A 5.25 as DSK1, and 3.5s for DSK2 and 3. Here's a video I posted on how to make it work.



Hope this helps.

Edited by Opry99er, Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:42 PM.

[Opry99er]

Looks like OLD CS1 is using DM2000, a disk-based disk manager from a Canadian UG.

[OLD CS1]

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:54 PM, said:

Looks like OLD CS1 is using DM2000, a disk-based disk manager from a Canadian UG.

Yuppers. Ernest Pergrem sent it along with the WHT 'E' SCSI card I bought from him. I am a little disappointed in the SCSI card, but no reflection on Ernie. I would like to see more of the options described in the manual implemented (like CALL FORMAT, CALL ALIAS) not to mention larger drive support -- SCSI drives smaller than 128MB are not easy to come by with low power draw and low noise. I also need to get hold of Richard Bell and see if he can get the SCS1 device working (it does not write.)

BTW, and I will try to change the thread title, but I have acquired a BwG DSDD floppy controller. I'm very excited about it, and this pretty much completes my TI system. Yay!

[Opry99er]

<<double post deleted>>

Edited by Opry99er, Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:49 PM.

[Opry99er]

I'm assuming it's a WHT SCSI card? If I'm not mistaken, it can be adapted to handle larger drives. Out of curiosity... What the hell would you need more than 128M on the TI for? . That's just about all the software available.

[marc.hull]

OLD CS1, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:42 PM, said:

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:54 PM, said:

Looks like OLD CS1 is using DM2000, a disk-based disk manager from a Canadian UG.

Yuppers. Ernest Pergrem sent it along with the WHT 'E' SCSI card I bought from him. I am a little disappointed in the SCSI card, but no reflection on Ernie. I would like to see more of the options described in the manual implemented (like CALL FORMAT, CALL ALIAS) not to mention larger drive support -- SCSI drives smaller than 128MB are not easy to come by with low power draw and low noise. I also need to get hold of Richard Bell and see if he can get the SCS1 device working (it does not write.)

BTW, and I will try to change the thread title, but I have acquired a BwG DSDD floppy controller. I'm very excited about it, and this pretty much completes my TI system. Yay!

You can use larger size drives on the card but only the first 248 meg (or so) can be used. Just about any SCSI-1 50 pin drive will work. That's odd it won't write. Have you formatted and initialized the drive with DU2K and is your termination correct ? The best device to connect is a SCSI-IDE bridge card with a CF attached. Fast, quiet and most reliable...

[OLD CS1]

Opry99er said:

I'm assuming it's a WHT SCSI card? If I'm not mistaken, it can be adapted to handle larger drives. Out of curiosity... What the hell would you need more than 128M on the TI for? . That's just about all the software available.

Yup, a WHT Rev E. Really, it is more about not wanting a 5.25" SCSI drive which wobbles the whole desk and grinds when it starts up, and sounds like a stone flour mill while running. The size is more secondary, really. Sure it would be a "waste" of space, but I will take small and quiet and be happy.

marc.hull, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:59 PM, said:

You can use larger size drives on the card but only the first 248 meg (or so) can be used. Just about any SCSI-1 50 pin drive will work. That's odd it won't write. Have you formatted and initialized the drive with DU2K and is your termination correct ? The best device to connect is a SCSI-IDE bridge card with a CF attached. Fast, quiet and most reliable...

I found a SCSI to IDE bridge for $40. I already have an IDE-CF adapter, so I do think that is the way I am going to go. But I would like to do more SCSI stuff with the TI, anyway. For that matter, I have a SCSI Zip drive I am about to retire from my Amiga 4000.

I am not sure what the exact problem is. I formatted and initialized a Quantum 75MB drive I have, and that completed fine, but I could neither save nor write with the drive until I moved it to SCS2. Ernest mentioned as much in his auction, and Richard Bell has agreed to try to work on it, I just need to ship it to him.

My next project is to replace the PEB power supply with an ATX supply, and possibly use a DC-to-DC converter to get the real 16V and 8V the PEB design calls for.

Edited by OLD CS1, Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:25 PM.

[InsaneMultitasker]

OLD CS1, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:42 PM, said:

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:54 PM, said:

Looks like OLD CS1 is using DM2000, a disk-based disk manager from a Canadian UG.

Yuppers. Ernest Pergrem sent it along with the WHT 'E' SCSI card I bought from him. I am a little disappointed in the SCSI card, but no reflection on Ernie. I would like to see more of the options described in the manual implemented (like CALL FORMAT, CALL ALIAS) not to mention larger drive support -- SCSI drives smaller than 128MB are not easy to come by with low power draw and low noise. I also need to get hold of Richard Bell and see if he can get the SCS1 device working (it does not write.)
!

I use two internal Syquest EZ135MB drives in my system. They are quiet and reliable, work off a 50-pin cable, and require one termination resistor. The external version comes in its own case that has a 50-pin centronics and requires active termination. The nice thing about the external unit is it can be stripped down and installed in a 3.5" slot.

If you buy such a drive, I have a few extra EZ135 platters you're welcome to. No flour mill sounds from these babies

[snume]

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:42 PM, said:

Hey Steve. I have three drives on my TI card.. A 5.25 as DSK1, and 3.5s for DSK2 and 3.

Thanks for the reply Owen, and I've already watched all your videos a couple of times but you don't get into specifics except with the first drive and it's shunt pack and your 2 3.5 drives are external and my question was more about the internal connector. I don't have a cable that will plug into the external connector (card edge style) while the internal one is a standard floppy cable connector.

Steve

[OLD CS1]

InsaneMultitasker, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:56 PM, said:

I use two internal Syquest EZ135MB drives in my system. They are quiet and reliable, work off a 50-pin cable, and require one termination resistor. The external version comes in its own case that has a 50-pin centronics and requires active termination. The nice thing about the external unit is it can be stripped down and installed in a 3.5" slot.

If you buy such a drive, I have a few extra EZ135 platters you're welcome to. No flour mill sounds from these babies

Ernest mentioned these units as well, saying they had an excellent track record. I appreciate the offer, and I will keep that in mind as I move forward. My first instinct right now is to stick with what I have and halt this TI spending spree.

Also, I have seen talk of using 3.5" drives, and I am told this controller I purchased can use one. But a bigger question in my mind is whether anyone has been successful in using the dual 5.25/3.5 drives. I have two and would like to put one in my PEB. I know both drives in the stack are HD, but I suspect they should use DD disks just fine.

Edited by OLD CS1, Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:20 PM.

[Opry99er]

Steve--- well, I don't know much about internal drives... I'm really not a hardware guy. Now that I know a bit more that I did then, the information on those videos seems very elementary and a bit shallow. But it's chronicled, anyway.

When I become a hardware master, I'll post real techie videos all the time. Not likely to happen.

BTW, those card edge connectors and ribbon cable I used to attach externally are readily available---In case you were interested in an external drive solution.

Building a box similar to the one Marc gave me wouldn't be too difficult.

Edited by Opry99er, Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:07 PM.

[InsaneMultitasker]

Probably wise re: the EZ135. The drives were selling for $5-$15 a year ago, not sure why they are so expensive on ebay now, upwards of 60-70$!! Maybe I should have cornered the market back then. sheesh.

[Tursi]

OLD CS1, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:25 PM, said:

My next project is to replace the PEB power supply with an ATX supply, and possibly use a DC-to-DC converter to get the real 16V and 8V the PEB design calls for.

Not a bad plan, but in case it gets to be too much, all known PEB cards will work without the DC-to-DC converter, just run the 12v line down both positive lanes and -12v down the -16v lane (I even ran my Nouspikel IDE card that way with no ill effect). My notes, which aren't very useful but have a couple of pictures for the curious, are here: http://harmlesslion....ext/atx_peb.htm

[snume]

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:05 PM, said:

Steve--- well, I don't know much about internal drives... I'm really not a hardware guy.

I feel you there. I'd love to be one and I can get the hardware mods done, but I'd love to be guru like Tursi or Matthew.

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:05 PM, said:

BTW, those card edge connectors and ribbon cable I used to attach externally are readily available---In case you were interested in an external drive solution.

Well, I checked Texin Treasures and it looks like he only has an external cable for 1 drive and I'd like 2 if I'm gonna do it right. And I see no mention of internal cables which I'd like to get. Where else would one check? I see nothing on eBay.

Opry99er, on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:05 PM, said:

Building a box similar to the one Marc gave me wouldn't be too difficult.

That would be my ultimate goal. It'd be nice to have 2 1/2 height 5.25" in the PE Box and 2 3.5" in a stand-alone enclosure like you have. We'll see if we get there eventually. I've come a heck of a long way just since April - and that includes doing basically nothing all summer and fall TI wise.

Steve

Edited by snume, Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:06 AM.

[marc.hull]

<Also, I have seen talk of using 3.5" drives, and I am told this controller I purchased can use one. But a bigger question in my mind is whether anyone has been successful in using the dual 5.25/3.5 drives. I have two and would like to put one in my PEB. I know both drives in the stack are HD, but I suspect they should use DD disks just fine.>


These combo drives have been debated in the past and the conventional wisdom is that they do not work, something about them being the 1.2 meg format I believe. I don't know if anyone has tried them and reported on it recently though. Hopefully you can get some definitive data for us.

To put the 3.5" drive issue to rest. Any TI controller can use 3.5" drives but the largest format the TI can utilize is DSDD. HD drives work provided the Floppy is a DD one or one of the workarounds (tape, glue jumpering etc) is done.