I recently bought a sacrificial Jag to experiment on whilst doing dev stuff, I have yet to add the BJL ROM to it so it's been sat in it's box since I got it. However the other night I fancied some Jag action, and I have put my own initial (paid £200 when they came out) on my desk in my freezing computer room, so rather than unplumb all that I thought I would just use the sacrificial Jag and go down stairs into the warmth.
At this point I noticed that the sacrificial Jag has no RF out! there is a space for it but it is blanked out.
Was there a run of Jags without a Modulator? or do I have an American Jag here? (PSU is UK). I thought all Jags came with modulator.
Took me by suprise.
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Different Jags! how odd
Started by LinkoVitch, Dec 8 2002 4:42 PM
32 replies to this topic
#2 OFFLINE
Thunderbird
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:46 PM
LinkoVitch said:
I recently bought a sacrificial Jag to experiment on whilst doing dev stuff, I have yet to add the BJL ROM to it so it's been sat in it's box since I got it. However the other night I fancied some Jag action, and I have put my own initial (paid £200 when they came out) on my desk in my freezing computer room, so rather than unplumb all that I thought I would just use the sacrificial Jag and go down stairs into the warmth.
At this point I noticed that the sacrificial Jag has no RF out! there is a space for it but it is blanked out.
Was there a run of Jags without a Modulator? or do I have an American Jag here? (PSU is UK). I thought all Jags came with modulator.
Took me by suprise.
At this point I noticed that the sacrificial Jag has no RF out! there is a space for it but it is blanked out.
Was there a run of Jags without a Modulator? or do I have an American Jag here? (PSU is UK). I thought all Jags came with modulator.
Took me by suprise.
If memory serves me correctly, the French Jags have no RF output. I have one I bought for my collection, and it has PAL output on the expansion connector and has the R/F output blocked off on the case. The actual case is molded with no hole, just you can see where they blanked that part of the mold before making the cases.
This is pretty common. From what I can tell it's no big deal.
Did you also know that jags came with different chipsets? Some were made by Morotola and some by Toshiba. Toshiba jags are much more rare.
#3 OFFLINE
LinkoVitch
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:49 PM
Ah right. Just seemed odd, wondered if it was an attempt to cut down on costs. I bought the Jag from ebay in the UK, not far from where I live, I think it unlikley that it came from France, but I guess the guy could have imported it to get it early or something.
The Toshiba jags just cloned 68000 based I take it?
The Toshiba jags just cloned 68000 based I take it?
#4 OFFLINE
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:51 PM
LinkoVitch said:
Ah right. Just seemed odd, wondered if it was an attempt to cut down on costs. I bought the Jag from ebay in the UK, not far from where I live, I think it unlikley that it came from France, but I guess the guy could have imported it to get it early or something.
The Toshiba jags just cloned 68000 based I take it?
The Toshiba jags just cloned 68000 based I take it?
No, they had Motorola 68K chips, but the Jag custom ASICS were built in different places. Toshiba for some and Motorola for others. You can tell Motorola Jags by the M in the serial number.
#5 OFFLINE
t.skid
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:54 PM
Thunderbird said:
If memory serves me correctly, the French Jags have no RF output. I have one I bought for my collection, and it has PAL output on the expansion connector and has the R/F output blocked off on the case. The actual case is molded with no hole, just you can see where they blanked that part of the mold before making the cases.
This is pretty common. From what I can tell it's no big deal.
Did you also know that jags came with different chipsets? Some were made by Morotola and some by Toshiba. Toshiba jags are much more rare.
This is pretty common. From what I can tell it's no big deal.
Did you also know that jags came with different chipsets? Some were made by Morotola and some by Toshiba. Toshiba jags are much more rare.
I have three model of Jag: one U.S., with r/f, one U.K., also with r/f, and the lastest without r/f again from U.K. (U.K. PSU). It was called "Scart version", coming with a scart cable, and was cheaper than the 'full' Jaguar.
T-Bird: About Motorola and Toshiba; Toshiba version was newer than motorola?
#6 OFFLINE
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:55 PM
Toshiba units were the first ones out. They were replaced by Motorola units in the first year I think, so they made much less toshiba jags.
#7 OFFLINE
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:58 PM
I just checked my old faithful Jag and it has no M in the serial, I don't think my other one does, I guess I potentially have to of the rarer ones then.
My Original Jag I bougt shortly after they were released. The serial number sticker does look like it has been stuck on afterwards on both Jags, is this the case with yours T-Bird?
When I bought the sacrificial jag the guy selling it sold it with a SCART lead but it was a pretty naff one (ribbon cable), I guess he lost or broke the original.
My Original Jag I bougt shortly after they were released. The serial number sticker does look like it has been stuck on afterwards on both Jags, is this the case with yours T-Bird?
When I bought the sacrificial jag the guy selling it sold it with a SCART lead but it was a pretty naff one (ribbon cable), I guess he lost or broke the original.
#8 OFFLINE
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 5:14 PM
LinkoVitch said:
I just checked my old faithful Jag and it has no M in the serial, I don't think my other one does, I guess I potentially have to of the rarer ones then.
My Original Jag I bougt shortly after they were released. The serial number sticker does look like it has been stuck on afterwards on both Jags, is this the case with yours T-Bird?
When I bought the sacrificial jag the guy selling it sold it with a SCART lead but it was a pretty naff one (ribbon cable), I guess he lost or broke the original.
My Original Jag I bougt shortly after they were released. The serial number sticker does look like it has been stuck on afterwards on both Jags, is this the case with yours T-Bird?
When I bought the sacrificial jag the guy selling it sold it with a SCART lead but it was a pretty naff one (ribbon cable), I guess he lost or broke the original.
I think you bought one from the same guy that sold me the PAL unit I have. it had a cheap looking cable included for free.
All Jags have serial number stickers that were applied over the decal on the bottom of the unit if I recall.
I think Toshiba Jags might say toshiba on the chips inside.
They WERE the ones that came out first.
Oh...yeah.... Toshiba Jags have a DIP style A/D converter IC on between the joystick connectors too. If that helps identify it.
#9 OFFLINE
t.skid
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 5:15 PM
Thunderbird said:
Toshiba units were the first ones out. They were replaced by Motorola units in the first year I think, so they made much less toshiba jags.
Understood, thank you!
BTW, only way to discover if Jag are Toshiba or Motorola is to open it, or, as wrote by LinkoVitch, it could be understand by s/n?
#10 OFFLINE
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 5:41 PM
t.skid said:
Thunderbird said:
Toshiba units were the first ones out. They were replaced by Motorola units in the first year I think, so they made much less toshiba jags.
Understood, thank you!
BTW, only way to discover if Jag are Toshiba or Motorola is to open it, or, as wrote by LinkoVitch, it could be understand by s/n?
My understanding is that if the serial numbner starts with a "K" then you have a Toshiba.
#11 OFFLINE
t.skid
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 5:49 PM
Thunderbird said:
t.skid said:
Thunderbird said:
Toshiba units were the first ones out. They were replaced by Motorola units in the first year I think, so they made much less toshiba jags.
Understood, thank you!
BTW, only way to discover if Jag are Toshiba or Motorola is to open it, or, as wrote by LinkoVitch, it could be understand by s/n?
My understanding is that if the serial numbner starts with a "K" then you have a Toshiba.
My first Jaguar - the original - is a Toshiba, then. I need to check the other two.
Thanks for the hint!
#12 OFFLINE
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2002 6:03 PM
In that case I have one of each.
#13 OFFLINE
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Posted Mon Dec 9, 2002 3:38 AM
I have 2 K's and an M.
Strangely, my copy of Rayman will only play on the M, not on either of the K's or the CD drive socket
Strangely, my copy of Rayman will only play on the M, not on either of the K's or the CD drive socket
#14 OFFLINE
LinkoVitch
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Posted Mon Dec 9, 2002 5:11 AM
Atari_Owl said:
I have 2 K's and an M.
Strangely, my copy of Rayman will only play on the M, not on either of the K's or the CD drive socket
Strangely, my copy of Rayman will only play on the M, not on either of the K's or the CD drive socket
When it does boot up does it come up with a "Sponsored by Motorola" logo or anything?
#15 OFFLINE
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Posted Mon Dec 9, 2002 5:30 AM
Atari_Owl said:
I have 2 K's and an M.
Strangely, my copy of Rayman will only play on the M, not on either of the K's or the CD drive socket
Strangely, my copy of Rayman will only play on the M, not on either of the K's or the CD drive socket
That should not be a problem from the hardware revision. I think the problem you have might be simply because the K units you have are older and more worn out.
The only problem I ever heard of was DOOM didn't work on some "M" models.
#16 OFFLINE
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Posted Sat Dec 28, 2002 4:46 PM
I've seen a lot of Jag styles in the last couple of years, so I can confirm some of Tbird's (and others') statements here.
I have one K-series Jag and one M-series Jag of my own. The M-series is the one with all my assorted extra goodies bolted onto/cut into it. The K-series has no A/D converter, iirc.
There are 2 versions of the custom ASICs I've seen as well, the text on the top is in a different font. No specifics as the one I saw like this wasn't mine
The Jags with no RF output are designed for use in France, and were supplied with the Peritel (now known as SCART) cable in the box (not the crap home-made one you got TBird, nice thick molded ones with official Atari connectors). Unmodified, they output PAL-B video at 50Hz.
There were 3 other video versions of the Jag, the American 60Hz one, the English PAL one and the European PAL-B one *with* RF modulator. Think that info's in the dev manual. T-skid's info about the UK SCART version is new to me (although Telegames sell SCART-only Jags) and I'd guess this is a PAL-B one (I think the video systems are compatible). That would explain why French Jags had no RF, since they use a video standard (SECAM) that encodes colour information differently to PAL and PAL-B, so using a 'normal' RF output Jag on a French TV would only give you a black and white image.
K-series Jags often have a 'hiss' which seems to come from the large power rectification coil (is it L29? memory is failing me) which is located next tot he power circuitry in the lower-right hand corner of the board (cart port upwards and pad ports towards yourself). This has happened to M-series Jag's I've modded before, though.
Think that's everything I know Always happy for more info though.
Stone
I have one K-series Jag and one M-series Jag of my own. The M-series is the one with all my assorted extra goodies bolted onto/cut into it. The K-series has no A/D converter, iirc.
There are 2 versions of the custom ASICs I've seen as well, the text on the top is in a different font. No specifics as the one I saw like this wasn't mine
The Jags with no RF output are designed for use in France, and were supplied with the Peritel (now known as SCART) cable in the box (not the crap home-made one you got TBird, nice thick molded ones with official Atari connectors). Unmodified, they output PAL-B video at 50Hz.
There were 3 other video versions of the Jag, the American 60Hz one, the English PAL one and the European PAL-B one *with* RF modulator. Think that info's in the dev manual. T-skid's info about the UK SCART version is new to me (although Telegames sell SCART-only Jags) and I'd guess this is a PAL-B one (I think the video systems are compatible). That would explain why French Jags had no RF, since they use a video standard (SECAM) that encodes colour information differently to PAL and PAL-B, so using a 'normal' RF output Jag on a French TV would only give you a black and white image.
K-series Jags often have a 'hiss' which seems to come from the large power rectification coil (is it L29? memory is failing me) which is located next tot he power circuitry in the lower-right hand corner of the board (cart port upwards and pad ports towards yourself). This has happened to M-series Jag's I've modded before, though.
Think that's everything I know
Always happy for more info though.Stone
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:11 AM
...in the board construction schematic that accompanied the Jag schematic I found yesterday.
This would seem to be the last word on which video versions were produced, but I still don't know how many revisions of each video version were released 'into the wild'.
Where it says 'Dash number' I'd guess it means a number to follow the silkscreened 'ATARI Jaguar console/ASSY 700020-_ _ _ _ _' on the PCB, maybe they just never filled in the gap
Interesting nonetheless.
Stone
This would seem to be the last word on which video versions were produced, but I still don't know how many revisions of each video version were released 'into the wild'.
Where it says 'Dash number' I'd guess it means a number to follow the silkscreened 'ATARI Jaguar console/ASSY 700020-_ _ _ _ _' on the PCB, maybe they just never filled in the gap
Interesting nonetheless.
Stone
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#18 OFFLINE
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:03 AM
Stone said:
...in the board construction schematic that accompanied the Jag schematic I found yesterday.
This would seem to be the last word on which video versions were produced, but I still don't know how many revisions of each video version were released 'into the wild'.
Where it says 'Dash number' I'd guess it means a number to follow the silkscreened 'ATARI Jaguar console/ASSY 700020-_ _ _ _ _' on the PCB, maybe they just never filled in the gap
Interesting nonetheless.
Stone
This would seem to be the last word on which video versions were produced, but I still don't know how many revisions of each video version were released 'into the wild'.
Where it says 'Dash number' I'd guess it means a number to follow the silkscreened 'ATARI Jaguar console/ASSY 700020-_ _ _ _ _' on the PCB, maybe they just never filled in the gap
Interesting nonetheless.
Stone
They all use the same PCB for all I know, and they just moved some jumpers and parts around to make the different versions. They just put the blank spaces after the part number and then added a chart to show what the blanks translate to.
#19 OFFLINE
Stone
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:37 AM
After looking in my K-series, it turns out that the 'dash number' is printed on the barcode label on the upper side of the board on the right edge (pad ports down).
That K-series doesn't have the A/D convertor populated btw, so it must have only been placed on early versions before it was dropped from the spec.
I knew that, I just thought it interesting that they silkscreened the same thing onto the board and then never used it Sticky labels are easier to print, obviously, but surely someone should have thought of this before producing 500,000 PCBs? 
Stone
That K-series doesn't have the A/D convertor populated btw, so it must have only been placed on early versions before it was dropped from the spec.
Quote
They just put the blank spaces after the part number and then added a chart to show what the blanks translate to.
I knew that, I just thought it interesting that they silkscreened the same thing onto the board and then never used it
Sticky labels are easier to print, obviously, but surely someone should have thought of this before producing 500,000 PCBs? Stone
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 2:48 PM
Stone said:
After looking in my K-series, it turns out that the 'dash number' is printed on the barcode label on the upper side of the board on the right edge (pad ports down).
That K-series doesn't have the A/D convertor populated btw, so it must have only been placed on early versions before it was dropped from the spec.
I knew that, I just thought it interesting that they silkscreened the same thing onto the board and then never used it Sticky labels are easier to print, obviously, but surely someone should have thought of this before producing 500,000 PCBs?
Stone
That K-series doesn't have the A/D convertor populated btw, so it must have only been placed on early versions before it was dropped from the spec.
Quote
They just put the blank spaces after the part number and then added a chart to show what the blanks translate to.
I knew that, I just thought it interesting that they silkscreened the same thing onto the board and then never used it
Sticky labels are easier to print, obviously, but surely someone should have thought of this before producing 500,000 PCBs? Stone
Are you sure your K series has no A/D? I have several and they all have it.
#21 OFFLINE
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:05 PM
My K serie Jaguar has no A/D converter. I know it well because I mount BJL yesterday. I have Jaguar without modulator.
Btw do anybody know which games know analog joystick?
Btw do anybody know which games know analog joystick?
#22 OFFLINE
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 4:39 PM
Thunderbird said:
Are you sure your K series has no A/D? I have several and they all have it.
Absolutely sure, I had it open today while I was hacking up a video cable plug from a floppy drive cable
.I'll swap if you like
It's completely unmodified and has only been opened twice, because I bought a second Jag to screw about with Just let me know: the_stony_1@hotmail.com .
krupkaj said:
Btw do anybody know which games know analog joystick?
BS is rumoured to
The A/D converter was removed from the spec relatively early, so no controllers were designed for it (AFAIK). None were ever produced/released anyway Thus no games support it...or not that anyone's ever discovered anyway. Somebody set me straight if I'm wrong here The dev manual states that analogue controllers must have their own internal A/D converter, which makes sense since not all Jags have one.
Stone
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:17 PM
BattleSphere™ Supports the Analog Controller using the built-in A/D.
#24 OFFLINE
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:11 PM
Does battlesphere support the analog controlers with their own a/d converters? just a 4 way one or the 6D one (which I think is the same as the head tracker for the VR).
If some devs would write games that can use them, Im sure a group of people would be able to make some special controlers. At the moment the only games that support anything special are Missile Command VR (and there are only 2 helmets), and Tempest (for which I have a controler up on eBay right now it should be noted)
If some devs would write games that can use them, Im sure a group of people would be able to make some special controlers. At the moment the only games that support anything special are Missile Command VR (and there are only 2 helmets), and Tempest (for which I have a controler up on eBay right now it should be noted)
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Posted Tue Dec 31, 2002 8:01 PM
Tyrant said:
Does battlesphere support the analog controlers with their own a/d converters? just a 4 way one or the 6D one (which I think is the same as the head tracker for the VR).
If some devs would write games that can use them, Im sure a group of people would be able to make some special controlers. At the moment the only games that support anything special are Missile Command VR (and there are only 2 helmets), and Tempest (for which I have a controler up on eBay right now it should be noted)
If some devs would write games that can use them, Im sure a group of people would be able to make some special controlers. At the moment the only games that support anything special are Missile Command VR (and there are only 2 helmets), and Tempest (for which I have a controler up on eBay right now it should be noted)
BattleSphere(t,) supports the analog controller using the A/D converter built into the early K-Series Jaguars. Get one of those awesome A/D Built-In Jaguars and you're golden. Search this forum for my instructions on how to modify a PC stick to work with the Jaguar and BattleSphere™. I forget where the post was, but I did go into some detail not long ago.
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