418 replies to this topic

[HammR25]

Apparently the hackers now have Sony's encryption keys for the PS3 and there's no workaround to fix it. I sure am glad they broke people's third party controllers and removed Linux.

http://www.wired.com...ation-3-exploit

Here's the funniest part of the story:

Quote

So what took these hackers so long? Members of the fail 0verflow team — a collaboration of hackers and coders best known for cracking the Wii and executing unsigned code on Nintendo’s console — said Sony’s removal of Linux on the console was the impetus they needed to get on and hack it.

Much to the aggravation and chagrin of amateur developers and hackers, Sony removed support for OtherOS (and the ability to install operating system Linux and therefore unsigned code) in May 2010, and shipped the PS3 Slim in September 2010 with no support for Linux. “By doing this, Sony pissed off the hackers,” a team member stated at the Berlin conference.

[S1500]

There's a handful of those who say Sony doesn't have that much egg on their face. Their PS3 security measures lasted this long, instead of the PS3 being cracked a week after it was out on shelves.

With this hack out there, could at least software PS2 emulation be added back in on the later consoles?

[Red 5]

This isn't a soft mod hack, this is wwwaayyy bigger. They have the key. It's over. No system has been destroyed like this since the Dreamcast. Owners of a PS3 will not have to do anything to their systems to play "backed up copies". Burn it and play it. There is no firmware fix. They can't flash the bios, and change anything. It's the freakin' encryption key. The only way around it is to recall and replace every system, or rush out a PS4 for next year. And even then, the entire library of PS3 games just became free to all the pirates in the world.

There can't be any more egg on your face than losing your encryption key to the public. I can promise you Sony is in panic mode.

[Reaperman]

I'm having trouble seeing this as anything but great news.


Removal of other OS.
Removal of purchased videos from our redownload lists. (go check, they're gone)
Allowing more aggressive DRM in the PSN store and not telling anybody which games have it.
Targeted removal of support for certain controllers.
'Online entitlement' fees on used games.
Releasing completely broken games lacking even the full feature list printed on the back of the package.

This seems like comeuppance to me. The playstation line has been going downhill over the last year, so I Guess I'll just make use of this new development until I feel better about sony's product line. I'm sure sony would want it that way. Here's hoping for a new web browser.

Edited by Reaperman, Wed Jan 5, 2011 11:07 AM.

[cimerians]

This is why onlive will grow and physical copies of anything will not exist anymore. We will soon subscribe to everything or stream so we cant "own" any games.

[Reaperman]

cimerians, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 11:03 AM, said:

This is why onlive will grow and physical copies of anything will not exist anymore. We will soon subscribe to everything or stream so we cant "own" any games.

I totally agree. Sony's most obvious way out is the subscription MMO direction. Any other phone-homes will just be hacked out, signed with an engineered key and re-released by pirates.

Oh but this time I just don't care that this is a major defeat for jolly old video games. After the last round of 'sony escalation' this still feels like a victory, but I shutter to think what they'll do next. Fraudulent torrents designed to kill ps3's?

Edited by Reaperman, Wed Jan 5, 2011 11:24 AM.

[Lendorien]

Am I the only one who has concern about this that it'll open up the console to malicious code that will steal personal information and the like? Or code that will brick the unit? The encryption keys give hackers an open door to screw up all sorts of things. Not to mention that online play will never be the same due to cheaters.

I mean, I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. I do think Sony has a right to protect their console if they so wish. But at the same time, I feel like the way they have managed the console has been asinine. Removing Other OS, BW compatibility, etc just pissed users off. Added to that, the support they've given the software on the console has been pretty crappy.

The internet browser is awful for one thing, and there's no cross game chat, despite the fact that the system has been out for almost 5 years?

Here's a video of the conference presentation.\

It's actually a pretty interesting watch. They explain how the PS3 security works and how they hacked in.

I do hope that someone reverse engineers the ps2 BW compatibility software eventually. It'll be a while, but if someone did that, I'd be a really happy fellow.

Edited by Lendorien, Wed Jan 5, 2011 11:42 AM.

[SlowCoder]

Lendorien, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 11:15 AM, said:

Am I the only one who has concern about this that it'll open up the console to malicious code that will steal personal information and the like? Or code that will brick the unit? The encryption keys give hackers an open door to screw up all sorts of things. Not to mention that online play will never be the same due to cheaters.

Well, of course that's going to happen. If you crack your PS3 and run hacked games, you run a very high risk of executing modified game code that can include all the things you mention above. This has been the case since the advent of cracked and pirated software on any platform. Sony has/had protection/encryption in place to prevent that sort of stuff from happening. If you're willing to circumvent that protection for free access, then you must also be willing to accept the consequences of your actions.

[Reaperman]

Lendorien, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 11:15 AM, said:

Here's a video of the conference presentation.\

It's actually a pretty interesting watch. They explain how the PS3 security works and how they hacked in.

It really is interesting, but is it just me or is the 'fail' not so epic? At least not at the moment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because a good chunk of this went over my head:

• They've broken ps3 hd encryption and can run software that they've signed on the ps3 hd without any extra trickery.
  
• service mode can run code from usb, and that seems to be for firmware downgrading/replacement (older news from jailbreaks).
  
• system-specific keys and blu ray keys are still intact--at least that's what I heard mentioned.
  
• Additionally, leaving items on the HD would seem to leave you open to attack by the next wave of sony counterattacks.

From what I gather, there won't be blu ray multi game discs on the streets, or commercial homebrew discs--at least not because of just this. PSN downloads are probably system specific (based on the system(s) your psn id is registered to) so they're safe(?)

Really all the piracy stuff happened with the jailbreaks--will sony really even care about this? I mean these guys just got linux back with some new access to game mode's 3d hardware. I imagine a few more apps/games will come, but everybody pirating was doing it with their $10 jailbreak devices and the various downgrade options.

Oh well, maybe the new linux will have trophy support.

Edited by Reaperman, Wed Jan 5, 2011 12:50 PM.

[Arkhan]

I had fun diddling around with the encryption stuff last night, and yeah it sure does work, lol.

Provided you feel like hex editing stuff.



I might write a program to do it, but im kinda lazy and dont see the point

[HammR25]

Yeah from watching that video it sounds like all these guys were doing is getting Linux back but it will use more of the console than it did before. They say they don't have the encryption keys for people to make their own pirate games and they have no plans to crack the apploader so people can. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this. As someone else said, the jailbreak devices already lets people copy games.

Since these are the same guys that made the Wii Homebrew channel hopefully something like that comes out for the PS3.

[cimerians]

Good reading. I check it once in a while:

http://hackmii.com/

[HammR25]

cimerians, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 2:41 PM, said:

Good reading. I check it once in a while:

http://hackmii.com/

If people are putting Linux on their hacked PS3s that means they could eventually use the Kinect with their PS3s. lol

[KrazyKaiju]

I'm more interested in running XBMC or Plex. Since running Other OS will probably be the first thing re-enabled, does anyone know if having the keys will allow a Linux install to have full access to the graphics capabilities of the PS3 or will it be gimped like the official install was?

[Reaperman]

KrazyKaiju, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 7:21 PM, said:

does anyone know if having the keys will allow a Linux install to have full access to the graphics capabilities of the PS3 or will it be gimped like the official install was?

The video seemed to indicate that it would have access to the 3d hardware just as any other game--unlike the original 'other os' feature.
Of course that's all based on my understanding of it, but it was very briefly mentioned.

Edited by Reaperman, Wed Jan 5, 2011 7:39 PM.

[Giltygear]

From a member of fail0verflow to the BBC:

Quote

“The complete console is compromised – there is no way back.”

“The only way to fix this is to issue new hardware. Sony will have to accept this.”

i have not updated my ps3 since the day before the firmware came out that took out "other OS". i installed linux on my system, and thats how ive come to learn how to use that "other OS". if you think its wrong, dont download or install the hack. ill install it when they get a BETTER graphics filter for the PS1 games. i think im in good company when i say that i would much rather play my ps1 games on my ps2 because it makes them look much better than the blurry mess the ps3 makes them turn out to be

[phaxda]

Fascinating, even to a non-coder and non-PS3 owner such as myself.

I will say that my immediate reaction is now "I want a PS3." How do you think these exploits will affect the retail market pricewise?

[SlowCoder]

phaxda, on Sun Jan 9, 2011 3:12 AM, said:

Fascinating, even to a non-coder and non-PS3 owner such as myself.

I will say that my immediate reaction is now "I want a PS3." How do you think these exploits will affect the retail market pricewise?

Interesting question. I'd love to hear what others have to say on this also.

My thought is that, while Sony has already damaged faith from existing customers by disabling Other OS, some will return, and new homebrewers and hackers will be interested in buying. I doubt prices will go down any time soon, as Sony will hope that most of their buyer base doesn't know or care.

Besides, it sounds to me like, as long as you keep to buying original games and don't hack your box, you aren't going to be affected immediately. Not until someone cracks PSN (which is going to be the next big target IMO) and is able to crack into user's boxes. Hopefully Sony didn't have such great faith in their encryption that they didn't make sure to also take great precautions to protect the PSN network.

[Chuplayer]

Reaperman, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 12:36 PM, said:

system-specific keys and blu ray keys are still intact--at least that's what I heard mentioned.

I've heard that since the conference, the keys for Blu-Ray and the PSP have also been discovered within the PS3. (PSP's keys due to the PS3 being able to play PSP Minis.) So not only is the PS3 completely compromised, the PSP and Blu-Ray itself are also completely compromised.

Edited by Chuplayer, Sun Jan 9, 2011 8:56 AM.

[Rikkarr]

I don't think I like this much... I mean, sure it's cool, I guess. And Sony really did bring this upon themselves, but the repercussions won't help me at all. Like cimerians said, it'll help Onlive grow and will help the downfall of physical media. I don't have a problem with onlive, but internet is VERY slow and VERY expensive around here, so unless you want to drag your onlive unit to the local library to play, it's just not practical.

The second reason, which someone else mentioned, was that Sony might shorten the lifespan of the PS3, and bring out the PS4 sooner. I didn't get my PS3 that long ago, and am only now appreciating it's HD features and options (got an HDTV a few days ago), so I'm certainly not going to be happy if they announce a new system because of this.

[Phredreeke]

S1500, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 9:40 AM, said:

With this hack out there, could at least software PS2 emulation be added back in on the later consoles?

No, because there was never FULL software PS2 emulation. A few consoles had partial software emulation (60gb PAL units and 80gb NTSC units I believe) but they still had the graphics synthesizer (PS2 gpu) in hardware.

[Chuplayer]

Phredreeke, on Sun Jan 9, 2011 9:36 AM, said:

S1500, on Wed Jan 5, 2011 9:40 AM, said:

With this hack out there, could at least software PS2 emulation be added back in on the later consoles?

No, because there was never FULL software PS2 emulation. A few consoles had partial software emulation (60gb PAL units and 80gb NTSC units I believe) but they still had the graphics synthesizer (PS2 gpu) in hardware.

The 20/60GB versions essentially had all of the PS2 hardware in them. The 80GB version removed the PS2 CPU (Emotion Engine) and emulated it in the Cell CPU while leaving in the PS2 GPU (Graphics Synthesizer). The EE was never really emulated all that well in the Cell, unfortunately. They probably could have worked on it to make it better, but after a certain point, they took out the GS. That stripped the PS3 of all PS2 compatibility.

I don't know all the technical details, but I've read that the GS has a pixel fill rate that's something completely absurdly high and simply cannot be emulated by the PS3's hardware. That's why they left in the GS in the 80GB model. As they moved to further cut costs, they removed the GS and all hopes of PS2 compatibility with it.

[HammR25]

Sony claims they can fix this with an update.

Sony said:

We are aware of this, and are currently looking into it. We will fix the issues through network updates, but because this is a security issue, we are not able to provide you with any more details.

http://www.next-gen....ds-to-ps3-hacks

[remowilliams]

They can claim all they want, but it looks like there isn't much they can do to fix the root of the problem. Short of retooling the PS3, or rushing the PS4 into production.

[Chuplayer]

remowilliams, on Sun Jan 9, 2011 11:35 AM, said:

They can claim all they want, but it looks like there isn't much they can do to fix the root of the problem. Short of retooling the PS3, or rushing the PS4 into production.

Or making every bit of software released thus far blacklisted.