175 replies to this topic

[PacManPlus]

Hi Guys:

I just spent a day or two on this, converting it from 160B mode to 320B mode. It looks good, but unfortunately when you only have 4 colors available to you per DL in this mode, I don't think it's worth finishing. I was going to make it scroll up and down (it doesn't at this point but all of the screen elements are there i.e. you can go down off the screen and the game will still keep track of the players).

I guess this is why this mode isn't used too often.

I wanted to try my vertical scrolling skills, because I want to make an XM game that uses all of its resources.

Anyway, here's what I ended up with.

[Rex Dart]

So... what is "it"?

[tep392]

PacManPlus, on Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:12 PM, said:

Hi Guys:

I just spent a day or two on this, converting it from 160B mode to 320B mode. It looks good, but unfortunately when you only have 4 colors available to you per DL in this mode, I don't think it's worth finishing. I was going to make it scroll up and down (it doesn't at this point but all of the screen elements are there i.e. you can go down off the screen and the game will still keep track of the players).

I guess this is why this mode isn't used too often.

I wanted to try my vertical scrolling skills, because I want to make an XM game that uses all of its resources.

Anyway, here's what I ended up with.

Wow! That would have been cool. What a shame we can't get more colors.

[AtariNerd]

"It" is beautiful and the world is more beautiful for it's chance to live.

[GroovyBee]

In 320B mode you can also use the three colours in palette P4 e.g. P4C1, P4C2, P4C3. Which would get pacman yellow and 2 ghosts a colour each.

[DracIsBack]

Any BINS? I just can't bear to look at your artistry in anything but a real 7800, where it is meant to be played!

[Tubular Gearhead]

Rex Dart, on Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:23 PM, said:

So... what is "it"?

Anyone have a screenshot? I am curious as well, but I don't have an emulator set up (yeah, yeah, I know it is easy- I just like real hardware and am lazy I guess... ).

[PacManPlus]

GroovyBee, on Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:43 PM, said:

In 320B mode you can also use the three colours in palette P4 e.g. P4C1, P4C2, P4C3. Which would get pacman yellow and 2 ghosts a colour each.

Thanks, GB - but you also need different colors for the maze outline, and the dots. From what I understand, there are only 2 palettes available in 320B (and I would have to use Transparent mode or there would be a black box around all of the players. That leaves:
Palette 0, Color 1
Palette 0, Color 2
Palette 4, Color 1
Palette 4, Color 2

I spent some time trying to figure out ways to get more colors out of it, but they all involved DLIs and changing color. It's too bad there's no way to change a palette's color mid scan line.
If I am missing anything, please by all means let me know.

Oh, and for the people who wanted screenshots:



Bin is below - haven't tried this on the real thing yet (don't know if I will - kind of discouraged about the color thing).

Thanks guys,
Bob

[GroovyBee]

How about trying it with Kangaroo mode enabled. It might not look that bad. Failing that, how about?

- Enable Kangaroo mode.
- One common colour in each palette P0 and P4 for the dots
- 2 wall colours in one palette P0 (maybe only 1 wall colour and use the other for something else).
- Yellow for pacman in palette P4
- 1 ghost colour in P4
- Pre-shift all ghosts and pacman and include the dot where appropriate. Use the shifted sprites instead.

It'll probably include more maze data checking overhead too.

[AtariNerd]

It is probably a bit much for Ms. Pac, but it's interesting to note that the original Pac-Man background plafield consisted mostly of a single blue, black and white. One could perhaps find a way to reuse the blue for one of the ghosts? No, I'm not requesting, just noting.

[Lendorien]

For a neophyte who doesn't know anything, what's the benefit of using this mode? Higher res graphics?

[The Usotsuki]

Yeah. Seems to be kind-of like the CGA 320 mode.

[PacManPlus]

Lendorien, on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:07 PM, said:

For a neophyte who doesn't know anything, what's the benefit of using this mode? Higher res graphics?

Yes. The sprites / character data are ripped directly from the arcade game.

Ok - I turned on Kangaroo mode. I gained two colors from doing this. A couple of drawbacks:
1. *Every* color is shared. I tried to make the most use of the 6 colors I had.
2. There is a black box around every sprite. This is most noticable when a monster is on top of you.

Good thing: it works on the real thing.

Still not sure if I should continue this or not.

[Tubular Gearhead]

Wow, that is really neat looking. I for one would love to play this hi-res version, even with the limited colors. I know it is easy for others to say when they aren't the ones doing the coding, but I hope you continue with this project...

It is great to see all the activity on the 7800 front as of late.

Good job!

[The Usotsuki]

Would it help any to nudge the maze over, then use the right side for the score/lives/stage display (à la NES, MSX)?

The "garbage mattes" around the ghosts aren't really that distracting, actually.

[kool kitty89]

The Usotsuki, on Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:26 PM, said:

Would it help any to nudge the maze over, then use the right side for the score/lives/stage display (à la NES, MSX)?

The "garbage mattes" around the ghosts aren't really that distracting, actually.

It's much more noticeable due to the overlapping with the playfield (vertically, horizontally isn't an issue as the matte is much smaller), it's very similar to some software blitted games on 8-bit computers (different from the character mode ones or those with attribute clash, but rather increasing rendering speed by doing a rectangular blit rather than masking it properly -some cases don't even clear the framebuffer properly so you get color clashing issues when certain things overlap).

It's really interesting to see some of the less used features get pushed.


Hmm, I wonder how the trade-offs compare between the 320 wide (1bpp) character mode on the A8 and the 7800's high-res modes. (A8 bitmap mode obviously is very limited -2 colors per scanline or per screen with no DLIs- plus 4 sprite colors, but I'm not sure about the character modes -if there's only 1 bit per cell for added colors that would mean only 3 per line... there's 5 playfield color registers but you'd need 2-bits to use all 4 additional colors plus a fixed color and I think it only allows 1 bit for color changing -which allows all 5 registers to be used in 4bpp modes- so that would be 1 common color and the other chosen from 2 possible on an 8x8 cell basis -plus DLIs to change that per line and the 4 sprite colors)

Edited by kool kitty89, Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:20 PM.

[AtariNerd]

I know it's easy to get distracted when things aren't 100% what you envisioned. I personally don't find the mats at all that distracting and overall think that it looks great. Reminds me of my many play sessions in fourth grade - that was a lot of quarters ill-spent, but oh what joy! With some better sound, the ability to scroll the maze around, plus some of the other features from Pac Collection added, I personally think you have a winner., but understand if you feel otherwise.

[PacManPlus]

Thanks Guys...

I had the idea of using 320A mode, with multiple sprites (i.e. 1 sprite for the monster itself, and another for the eyes in the same location). At least I could mix & match colors this way... But then I realized that the Character Mode would also need 2 colors (maze outline and dots). There definately is not enough Maria time to do 2 Character Modes that span the entire line + 11 sprites (2 for each monster, 2 for the fruit, and 1 for the player).

Yuck.

[Marc Oberhäuser]

Nevertheless, nice try!

[AtariNerd]

Is there a particular technical reason why the maze walls have to be filled in with the yellow? (I guess this originally was meant to be Ms Pac?) Part of why the boxes might stand out is the high contrast. If the boxes were simple blue outlines and the interiors left black, it might not be that noticeable, or at least less so.

Edited by AtariNerd, Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:48 AM.

[gambler172]

Hi Bob
Looks great......
greetings Walter

[PacManPlus]

AtariNerd, on Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:37 AM, said:

Is there a particular technical reason why the maze walls have to be filled in with the yellow? (I guess this originally was meant to be Ms Pac?) Part of why the boxes might stand out is the high contrast. If the boxes were simple blue outlines and the interiors left black, it might not be that noticeable, or at least less so.

I copied the characters and sprites directly from arcade Pac itself, so the 'filled in' maze was part of that. It just so happens that the inside color was shared with Pac and Pokey. I can erase the inside, but that leaves very boring mazes

That being said, I got the scrolling to work - and the game is now playable. You can also choose the correct starting level.




Please note that individual colors cannot be changed, as they all are shared by other objects.
Also, the sounds and intermissions are not correct.

Thanks,
Bob

[tep392]

PacManPlus, on Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:47 PM, said:

AtariNerd, on Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:37 AM, said:

Is there a particular technical reason why the maze walls have to be filled in with the yellow? (I guess this originally was meant to be Ms Pac?) Part of why the boxes might stand out is the high contrast. If the boxes were simple blue outlines and the interiors left black, it might not be that noticeable, or at least less so.

I copied the characters and sprites directly from arcade Pac itself, so the 'filled in' maze was part of that. It just so happens that the inside color was shared with Pac and Pokey. I can erase the inside, but that leaves very boring mazes

That being said, I got the scrolling to work - and the game is now playable. You can also choose the correct starting level.




Please note that individual colors cannot be changed, as they all are shared by other objects.
Also, the sounds and intermissions are not correct.

Thanks,
Bob

Great work Bob. I was just wondering if it's possible to reorder the DL's so that Pacman and the monsters get drawn before the maze so the box's don't show up. Would that work?

[Corby]

Amazing job Bob!

[The Usotsuki]

Looks like you were trying to code in the Ms. Pac-Man interludes. (And the sound is, yes, that of Ms. Pac-Man, rather than the original.)

Plays nice, bit more difficult than I'm used to xD.

For the record, the original Pac-Man's mazes *are* hollow.