262 replies to this topic

[Random Terrain]

SeaGtGruff, on Tue Feb 1, 2011 11:03 PM, said:

I would vote for updating the appropriate sections of the current page, rather than creating a separate page-- although you might want to keep a copy of the original current page for people who are still stubbornly using version 1.0!

Since the info for version 1.0 is still being updated, keeping it all on one page (with no old page that I'd also have to keep making changes to) sounds good to me.

SeaGtGruff, on Tue Feb 1, 2011 11:03 PM, said:

I work in the software industry, and believe me, trying to support multiple versions is a real hassle. You almost *have* to keep supporting the most recent previous version, at least during the period of time when some users are still on the older version. But at some point you have to bite the bullet and drop support of the previous version(s), otherwise you go insane. (I know-- I'm already there! Whee!)

So that explains the photo you sent me where you're wearing nothing but a sombrero made of sausage!

SeaGtGruff, on Tue Feb 1, 2011 11:03 PM, said:

For example, no reasonable person should expect you to create separate versions of your bB reference page that are specific to versions 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.35, or 0.99, because (presumably) no one is still using them.

I think of them as being critical updates. The same program is just getting better over time. We went from crawling, to walking, to running. They were all part of the same world. But this new version feels like a jet engine exploded out of our asses, thrusting us so fast into the sky that our legs ripped off while our arms flailed wildly, whacking us in the face like a couple of runaway meat clackers.

I think both versions can exist on the bB page together without much of a problem. Some people may always use the previous version where they'll still have legs for running and asses that won't break the sound barrier. A land where 4k or 2k games are still possible. The rest of us will move on and try to fly as high and as fast as we can without getting a bruised up face from those flailing meat clackers or losing consciousness from lack of oxygen.

[Jess Ragan]

It IS cheating if you're adding hardware to the cartridge, but as long as you're not forcing people to buy separate add-ons, I can live with it. Is it possible to write a Supercharger specific version of Batari BASIC, or put the Supercharger hardware or an equivalent right in the cartridge? Also, please enlighten me as to what this Harmony business is, because I honestly don't know.

[Random Terrain]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 12:30 AM, said:

Also, please enlighten me as to what this Harmony business is, because I honestly don't know.

Maybe this will help:

http://www.randomter...ds.html#harmony

[jbs30000]

When using Stella, do I need to use any command line arguments or something? Because when I run the programs posted the sprites are yellow, the middle of the screen is yellow, and I can only see the sprites on the sides of the screen, as shown in the pic below. Or is that how it's supposed to look?

[Philsan]

jbs30000, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:03 AM, said:

When using Stella, do I need to use any command line arguments or something? Because when I run the programs posted the sprites are yellow, the middle of the screen is yellow, and I can only see the sprites on the sides of the screen, as shown in the pic below. Or is that how it's supposed to look?

Stella.png

You have to use the version of Stella linked in the first post.

[Random Terrain]

jbs30000, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:03 AM, said:

When using Stella, do I need to use any command line arguments or something? Because when I run the programs posted the sprites are yellow, the middle of the screen is yellow, and I can only see the sprites on the sides of the screen, as shown in the pic below. Or is that how it's supposed to look?

Are you using the special version of Stella posted in batari's blog?

[Jess Ragan]

It IS extra equipment! Barf-o. It'd be different if the games could be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges with the hardware inside, but the Harmony is a little too 32X-y for my tastes. It's Quimby's call, but I'd be a lot happier if this kernal worked with a barebones 2600.

[Random Terrain]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:25 AM, said:

It IS extra equipment! Barf-o. It'd be different if the games could be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges with the hardware inside, but the Harmony is a little too 32X-y for my tastes. It's Quimby's call, but I'd be a lot happier if this kernal worked with a barebones 2600.

Maybe this post will help:

disjaukifa, on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:47 AM, said:

Mayhem, on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:43 AM, said:

So what are the differences between Melody and Harmony? I've not been following this as closely as I need to I guess... might be interested even though I've got a CC2. Just for using on 2600s.

Melody is a stripped down version of Harmony which Albert is going to use to sell Homebrew games. The Melody is for homebrews that were developed on the Harmony. The Melody allows from a 2K game to a 32K game including the use of I think its called Sara chip (which the Melody/Harmony emulates) which gives the Atari 2600 another 128 bytes of ram.

Really it allows people do develop homebrew games so that they no longer require hard to find chips and custom PCBs for the cartridges.

[jbs30000]

OK, that works a lot better. Thanks.

[batari]

RevEng, on Tue Feb 1, 2011 9:28 PM, said:

Minor bug uncovered... the positioning routine seems to be off in 2 places near the right hand side of the screen.

I've attached a modified version of the sample program where its easy to see this... the sample program increments each object's x position, and zeros it when x>152.

sample.bas.bin
sample.bas

Fixed - the problem is in the Hmval table which is missing two numbers (There is "128, 64" near the end that should be "128, 96, 80, 64".

SeaGtGruff, on Tue Feb 1, 2011 11:03 PM, said:

Random Terrain, on Tue Feb 1, 2011 9:05 AM, said:

After everything gets figured out and the dust settles, will the info about it go in its own section on the bB page or will it need a separate page?

I would vote for updating the appropriate sections of the current page, rather than creating a separate page-- although you might want to keep a copy of the original current page for people who are still stubbornly using version 1.0! I work in the software industry, and believe me, trying to support multiple versions is a real hassle. You almost *have* to keep supporting the most recent previous version, at least during the period of time when some users are still on the older version. But at some point you have to bite the bullet and drop support of the previous version(s), otherwise you go insane. (I know-- I'm already there! Whee!) For example, no reasonable person should expect you to create separate versions of your bB reference page that are specific to versions 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.35, or 0.99, because (presumably) no one is still using them. On the other hand, it would be cool to have installation files and documentation for all those previous versions, strictly from an archaeological viewpoint.

Michael

Yes, it should be included in the main page. Also, using the DPC+ kernel will be similar to using the standard and multisprite kernels, so extra documentation should fit in well.

[batari]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:25 AM, said:

It IS extra equipment! Barf-o. It'd be different if the games could be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges with the hardware inside, but the Harmony is a little too 32X-y for my tastes. It's Quimby's call, but I'd be a lot happier if this kernal worked with a barebones 2600.

Melody boards are stripped-down Harmony boards that can be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges.

Read about the Melody board here:
http://atariage.com/...atariage_melody

[cd-w]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:25 AM, said:

It IS extra equipment! Barf-o. It'd be different if the games could be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges with the hardware inside, but the Harmony is a little too 32X-y for my tastes. It's Quimby's call, but I'd be a lot happier if this kernel worked with a barebones 2600.

It isn't doing anything that wouldn't have been possible back in the day. The DPC+ scheme is close to the one used in Pitfall 2.

Chris

[RevEng]

batari, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 2:27 AM, said:

Fixed - the problem is in the Hmval table which is missing two numbers (There is "128, 64" near the end that should be "128, 96, 80, 64".

Thanks batari! That fixed the jump issue, but there's another - it seems the X coordinates are offset 7 pixels to the left.

[toiletunes]

Thank you Batari, I look forward to the new wave of games

[Jess Ragan]

batari, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 2:30 AM, said:

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:25 AM, said:

It IS extra equipment! Barf-o. It'd be different if the games could be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges with the hardware inside, but the Harmony is a little too 32X-y for my tastes. It's Quimby's call, but I'd be a lot happier if this kernal worked with a barebones 2600.

Melody boards are stripped-down Harmony boards that can be distributed on their own dedicated cartridges.

Read about the Melody board here:
http://atariage.com/...atariage_melody

If the games can exist inside a readily available standalone cartridge, that's what matters to me. Thanks for the information! Does this mean we'll see commercial-quality 2600 games from Batari BASIC now?

[Philsan]

I think that some commercial quality games written with bB already exist: Cave In, 21 Blue, Evil Magician Returns...
With this new kernel the quality will surely increase.

[GroovyBee]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 4:23 PM, said:

Does this mean we'll see commercial-quality 2600 games from Batari BASIC now?

That's a bit of a low blow in my opinion. Not everybody has the skills, time or motivation to make commercial quality 2600 games. Having fun in your spare time is what programming retro machines is all about to me.

[Animan]

Guess I should dust off my Space Harrier 2600 files...

Wait. Did I just say that?

[Random Terrain]

Animan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 5:38 PM, said:

Wait. Did I just say that?

No, it was the voices in my head. I mean your head. Ahhhhhh! Somebody make the voices go away!

[Jess Ragan]

GroovyBee, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 5:25 PM, said:

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 4:23 PM, said:

Does this mean we'll see commercial-quality 2600 games from Batari BASIC now?

That's a bit of a low blow in my opinion. Not everybody has the skills, time or motivation to make commercial quality 2600 games. Having fun in your spare time is what programming retro machines is all about to me.

What? I made Solar Plexus, one of the first Batari BASIC games. It wasn't commercial-grade either; I think it got a minus in the Digital Press price guide or something. I mean no offense to other developers, and some of those games I've really enjoyed (particularly that laser gladiator thing with Zordon in it). I'm just saying that it'd be nice to step up to the big leagues and make games that rival those by Activision and Imagic.

Today's not my day for talking. I think I might have lost two online friends already; I'll just shut up now.

[Random Terrain]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 11:40 PM, said:

Today's not my day for talking. I think I might have lost two online friends already; I'll just shut up now.

The good news is you'll have more time to make that bB masterpiece with two fewer friends to talk to.

I won't start working with this new stuff until I finish that crappy seaweed game. It won't be commercial-quality, but it will be the first thing I've actually finished. Can't wait until this new stuff gets all fixed up. Once it's stable, I'm going to have all kinds of fun.

Edited by Random Terrain, Thu Feb 3, 2011 3:20 AM.

[RevEng]

Philsan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 4:31 PM, said:

I think that some commercial quality games written with bB already exist: Cave In, 21 Blue, Evil Magician Returns...
With this new kernel the quality will surely increase.

I'd also include Dungeon, L.E.M, Seaweed Patrol, and Circus Galacticus.

If you load up a directory with all of the commercial games and throw stella at one at random, your odds of getting one that looks worse than any of these is quite good, and your odds of getting one that is less fun are even better.

Jess Ragan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 11:40 PM, said:

What? I made Solar Plexus, one of the first Batari BASIC games. It wasn't commercial-grade either; I think it got a minus in the Digital Press price guide or something. I mean no offense to other developers, and some of those games I've really enjoyed (particularly that laser gladiator thing with Zordon in it). I'm just saying that it'd be nice to step up to the big leagues and make games that rival those by Activision and Imagic.

Today's not my day for talking. I think I might have lost two online friends already; I'll just shut up now.

I'm sure it just came out wrong, Jess. "commercial" wasn't probably the best way to put it, as Activision and Imagic were atypically good commercial games.

I hope you don't shut up for long. Everybody misspeaks now and then, and it would be really cool to see what you could do with the new DPC kernel vs the old pre-beta standard kernel used in Solar Plexus!

[RevEng]

RevEng, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 6:42 AM, said:

That fixed the jump issue, but there's another - it seems the X coordinates are offset 7 pixels to the left.

Another bug, in addition to the one above - you can't call drawscreen from another bank when using the DPC kernel. Looking at the asm, the DPC setup uses a non-bankswitched jsr.

I guess this limitation will go away when the setup is moved to ARM code?

It's easy enough to work around for now, by just creating a drawscreen wrapper in bank 1 and gosub'ing to it, instead of calling drawscreen directly.

[yuppicide]

Ature is freakin awesome!

http://www.atariage....for-atari-2600/

[jbs30000]

Animan, on Wed Feb 2, 2011 5:38 PM, said:

Guess I should dust off my Space Harrier 2600 files...

Wait. Did I just say that?

I was working on a 2600 Space Harrier game last year. It wasn't half bad, but a few months ago my hard drive crashed and I had no backups, so it's all gone now.