tz101 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 You could do what Opcode did with Pac-Man and make the playfield vertical with the scoreboard on the side. Y, this has been done many times on many systems. Take a look at Galaga and Arkanoid on NES. Please, somebody, fix DK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Please, somebody, fix DK! It's been done already. Look at post #19 in this thread. That's NOT the NES version! It's Opcode's ColecoVision WIP of Donkey Kong Arcade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 But if you play Time Pilot arcade you'll find the controls are more "fluid" than on the ColecoVision. That is because the arcade is a lot smoother overal. CV version is too choppy and too slow, as many original CV ports. It isn't console's fault though, as the CV processing power is the same or even higher than most arcades from the period, Time Pilot included. Bosconian would be a great title as well. I don't know that this game has been ported to any system. It was, for the MSX in 1984. Not sure if it counts as a classic system or not. But the port is actually really good. Gyruss could use some visual touch-ups. ColecoVision's Gyruss sucks. I am a big fan of the arcade and the CV version plays nothing like the original. And as you said, the graphics are terrible... Is Metal Gear possible on the CV? Perhaps with the Opgrade Module's added horsepower it can be done? That would be one fun game! Yes, MG would be perfectly ported with just extra RAM. The graphics aren't going to look as pretty, but the game would play exactly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubular Gearhead Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Please, somebody, fix DK! It's been done already. Look at post #19 in this thread. That's NOT the NES version! It's Opcode's ColecoVision WIP of Donkey Kong Arcade! Yes, and I for one can't wait for both the ColecoVision one (Opcode) and the Intellivision remake. BTW- hence my response in post #2 of the below thread... http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/176626-dk-arcade-and-the-video-game-critic-forum/ Edited February 10, 2011 by Tubular Gearhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowCoder Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just about anything could be remade "better" in someone's eyes. As much as Pac-Man for Atari 2600 was "crap" in many people's minds, I'd still play it. It's an original. And when I play it, I remember being 10. If you want to remake a "better" version, go ahead. But for the sake of those who get good childhood feelings playing the originals, the "better" one won't provide that feeling. On the other hand, this is a hobby. If you think you can improve on an old theme, please give it a go! You can only improve the quality of our hobbies in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcnett Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Yes, MG would be perfectly ported with just extra RAM. The graphics aren't going to look as pretty, but the game would play exactly the same. A ColecoVision with more RAM is called an ADAM Too bad so few ADAMs were sold, and so few of those survived until 2011... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Buck Rogers - Planet of Zoom for the Colecovision should be the one that need to be redone. The graphics is fine and looks cool. This game is murder on your hand since the ship tends to steers to the middle. It is bareable with a Sega Master System controller. The saucers are hard to tell where they are in a 3D space due to lack of shadow and scaling. I like the Atari 2600 version of this game because it a lot easier and more satisfying killing these enemies and turning them into potato chip dust. It easier to take down the enemies since you only more left or right. Even if this game has flickering to double amount of sprites and questionable 3D scaling, I find it fun. Time Pilot - They should have included the UFO stage, 16KB cartridge limitation is no excuse. Gyruss - Harder to play with the original CV controller. Playing with a Sega Genesis or Sega Master System controller is much better since you can rapidly hit the fire button as fast as you can. I like the idea provided here using the driving controller for this game. Zaxxon - When you get hit, it should have that explosion like it had in the arcade version. That's it for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just about anything could be remade "better" in someone's eyes. As much as Pac-Man for Atari 2600 was "crap" in many people's minds, I'd still play it. It's an original. And when I play it, I remember being 10. If you want to remake a "better" version, go ahead. But for the sake of those who get good childhood feelings playing the originals, the "better" one won't provide that feeling. On the other hand, this is a hobby. If you think you can improve on an old theme, please give it a go! You can only improve the quality of our hobbies in doing so. Sure, it is all a matter of taste. I for once prefer the 2600 version of Galaxian over the arcade. But while I understand the nostalgic feelings involved here, not everything was perfect as I remember them. For example, I thought Donkey Kong and Mr Do! were pretty good when I first played them, so probably I am just being too critical now, 30 years later. On the other hand I always thought Gyruss sucked. You are also right saying that anything could be remade better now, but one would argue that we could simply go play MAME if we want arcade perfection. Still, as a programmer it is the challenge of porting those games as faithfully as possible (at least for my skills) that attracts me, possibly more than the end result, especially considering that after I am done with a port, I am so sick of the game that I hardly play it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Still, as a programmer it is the challenge of porting those games as faithfully as possible (at least for my skills) that attracts me, possibly more than the end result, especially considering that after I am done with a port, I am so sick of the game that I hardly play it again. Speaking of which, by the way, I'm looking forward to see how you will implement scrolling backgrounds in your rendition of Moon Patrol. As I understand it, so far you have the scrolling ground and the moon buggy wheel animation working. That's an impressive start, but the scrolling backgrounds of the arcade version seem pretty complex to replicate on the CV, especially if you're looking to do it in graphic mode #2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozma wars Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I know, I miss the point but I dream to play OZMA WARS and SUPERTANK arcade games on the ColecoVision ... sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcoleco Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry but I feel that something must be said now. To the other persons who enjoyed these Coleco game cartridges in the past, you are not alone! Is this thread about nitpicking every single Coleco game? At this point of time, we have many possibilities to play the real arcade games, so bashing on all ports "not like the arcade" is just rude... go build a MAME machine. Seriously, if practicaly all games released for the ColecoVision back then were so terrible, nobody here will be a fan of the game system and talk about making games for it. YES, these games may have been released better back then if it wasn't about the deadlines and cost production decisions (like cutting a stage in some games like Gorf and DK to save using rom chips). YES, we have more ressources and more time to deal with in order to release better games. BUT, I don't think spitting on the hardwork done in the past and spending time on offering the same games Coleco fans do already have in their collection is helping. And if you still really want to redo a game, I suggest to think of a game Coleco fans may not have already in their collection. I have an opinion too about Gyruss... It's a diffcult game and gamers love it because it's difficult. Gyruss for the ColecoVision is (I think) the only Coleco commercial game using 8x8 sprites. This decision allowed to avoid tons of flickering and save memory space. I consider this game cartridge very good indeed, one of the great ones with great music, sounds and fast fluid action. I don't see why it should be "done better" but sure you can do it if you want. Did you know that Q*Bert for the ColecoVision is only 8KB which is less than pretty much all the hi-res ports of this classic arcade game? Sure, this game could have been done better but it plays and looks good as is already. Edited February 10, 2011 by newcoleco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikrananka Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Did you know that Q*Bert for the ColecoVision is only 8KB which is less than pretty much all the hi-res ports of this classic arcade game? Sure, this game could have been done better but it plays and looks good as is already. No I didn't know that - that certainly makes the port all the more impressive. Personally I love Q*Bert on the CV (it was one of the few carts I spent my money on as a kid), and is one of the games I always come back to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Is this thread about nitpicking every single Coleco game? Yes, we love to nitpick. In fact, we love it so much that we nitpick about other nitpickers. It's just talk, Daniel. No one is going to be remaking any of these games, you know this as well as anyone else here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Still, as a programmer it is the challenge of porting those games as faithfully as possible (at least for my skills) that attracts me, possibly more than the end result, especially considering that after I am done with a port, I am so sick of the game that I hardly play it again. Speaking of which, by the way, I'm looking forward to see how you will implement scrolling backgrounds in your rendition of Moon Patrol. As I understand it, so far you have the scrolling ground and the moon buggy wheel animation working. That's an impressive start, but the scrolling backgrounds of the arcade version seem pretty complex to replicate on the CV, especially if you're looking to do it in graphic mode #2... Excellent question. Here is what I plan, and Moon Patrol's feasibility on the CV depends on that: Actually first let me say that when we talk about porting arcade games to the CV (especially complex games), we talk about trade-offs. And when trade-offs are involved, particular choices can become a matter of personal taste. That said, I took some decisions early on. It was my view that smooth scrolling for the moon ground was very important because there are certain gameplay elements attached to it, like craters and rocks. Then graphic fidelity was the second factor, so I wanted to stay as close to the original as possible. Now before I expose my solution, let me describe Atarisoft’s solution. The Atari implementation (aka Matt Patrol) is quite good considering the time it was created, however there are some things I don’t like about it. What I like is that it has smooth scrolling for everything and it is mostly flicker-free. What I don’t like is that many elements got compromised by that design choice. The moon ground and background are all too simplistic (for technical reasons), the moon ground obstacles are also not very faithful, and in many cases missing, like very small rocks, no hills, no plants, very small tanks, etc. The moon buggy was implement using background graphics, but that also compromises the background. So it looks polished, lets say, for a CV game, but not very faithful. While certainly a valid solution, it isn’t the solution I would have chosen. My solution is to have the moon ground done by configuring a certain area of the video to act as a framebuffer, so that the moon ground is generated on the fly and is as varied as the arcade version, as well as allowing us to display hills. Well, so far so good. Now comes the controversial part… The moon buggy as well as all ground obstacles is made of sprites, just like the arcade. That gives us correct size, shape, pretty close color and most important, very smooth animation. The drawback is a lot of sprite flickering. Now, some sprite flickering can be bad and some can be really bad. I consider that if you can display sprites at least at 20Hz, then you would be alright. 20Hz means every sprites should be displayed at least once every 3 frames. Considering 4 sprites per scanline, we could have 12 sprites and still be ok. 12 sprites is a lot, problem is most games doesn’t know how to flick sprites, so they cannot display 12 sprites per scanline at a reasonable rate. But with the correct algorithm you can. Again, I am sure it is a controversial design decision, some people are really sensitive to sprite flickering, but I had to make a design choice, and to be honest sprite flickering doesn’t bother me much, as long as it stay above the 20Hz rule. There are also some details regarding the way I implemented the buggy wheels (to save sprites), but I am going to save that for later. Thing is, the buggy uses 8 sprites, but only 4 per scanline. Finally the background. For that I decided that 100% smooth scrolling wasn’t really necessary because of the limitations imposed by that particular solution and because of all extra overhead. So I decided to go with an intermediate solution, having the background scroll at 2 or 4 pixels increments. Now here things get a little tricky and I will need to make a decision. If I go with 2 pixels then I would need to make some compromises in the bg graphics (graphic reconfiguration), while 4 pixels should leave graphics intact. I haven’t made that decision yet, and I won’t probably do until the game is closer of being playable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcoleco Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Well, I'm also curious about Moon Patrol you are proposing. It's a game Coleco fans doesn't have in their collection... well except if my hack of Matt Patrol is put in cartridges as some people wanted to. So, I guess I should continue with my other projects and never think of Moon Patrol again. Have fun, Eduardo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Moon Patrol (as well as all unreleased AtariSoft protos) is a good idea to re-make them Opcode made Pacman Collection and proved that CV can render great conversion I'm sure Eduardo will do the same with Moon Patrol (wich is a game that's so nice!) Dig Dug and Joust would be good candidate too As for Donkey Kong, I think its a great idea to re-make too, The purple beams and all other wrongly used colors always annoyed me Judging by the videos on Opcode Youtube Channel, it really promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Again, I am sure it is a controversial design decision, some people are really sensitive to sprite flickering, but I had to make a design choice, and to be honest sprite flickering doesn’t bother me much, as long as it stay above the 20Hz rule. There are also some details regarding the way I implemented the buggy wheels (to save sprites), but I am going to save that for later. Thing is, the buggy uses 8 sprites, but only 4 per scanline. Interesting. We'll eventually see if the final result has acceptable flicker. Finally the background. For that I decided that 100% smooth scrolling wasn’t really necessary because of the limitations imposed by that particular solution and because of all extra overhead. So I decided to go with an intermediate solution, having the background scroll at 2 or 4 pixels increments. Now here things get a little tricky and I will need to make a decision. If I go with 2 pixels then I would need to make some compromises in the bg graphics (graphic reconfiguration), while 4 pixels should leave graphics intact. I haven’t made that decision yet, and I won’t probably do until the game is closer of being playable. Not counting the ground, there are two layers of parallax scrolling in Moon Patrol. So you'll need both 2-pixel and 4-pixel increments, won't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartsfam Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 IMO: I read on other sites how Tutankham was a "must have." I paid good money on EBay, popped it in, and YECH!!! I thought the controllers are horrible. Among the worst on the system. It needs to be remade with proper controls..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozma wars Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 TURBO better graphics needed and without steering wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Zaxxon and Time Pilot. Somehow eliminate the choppy, skippy, farty, scrolling. Time Pilot is SUCH an awesome game and it's completely blundered on the CV. Zaxxon as well. It's at least tolerable but still pretty bad. Maybe even just fix the sound on Zaxxon. The sound of the ship flying sounds like radio static, and when you fire it sounds like a tight fart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 TURBO better graphics needed and without steering wheel At least one of your wishes has come true thanks to the efforts of Daniel B./NewColeco! Here is a link to his website where you can download a Hacked/Modified version of Turbo that uses the Standard Hand Controllers: http://www.ccjvq.com/newcoleco/ Browse to the Software/Games/Modified Games section. There is also an thread on here from late Summer where all of NewColeco's modified games are detailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozma wars Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 TURBO better graphics needed and without steering wheel At least one of your wishes has come true thanks to the efforts of Daniel B./NewColeco! Here is a link to his website where you can download a Hacked/Modified version of Turbo that uses the Standard Hand Controllers: http://www.ccjvq.com/newcoleco/ Browse to the Software/Games/Modified Games section. There is also an thread on here from late Summer where all of NewColeco's modified games are detailed. T H A N K S !!! Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcnett Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Zaxxon and Time Pilot. Somehow eliminate the choppy, skippy, farty, scrolling. Time Pilot is SUCH an awesome game and it's completely blundered on the CV. Zaxxon as well. It's at least tolerable but still pretty bad. Maybe even just fix the sound on Zaxxon. The sound of the ship flying sounds like radio static, and when you fire it sounds like a tight fart. I have grave doubts anything can be done to make Zaxxon's scrolling smoother on original hardware, except by simplifying the graphics severely. This is one case where an emulator can improve on things. Since the ColecoVision GPU and CPU are so isolated from each other, AND because its games don't push the GPU very far, it's far more possible in a ColecoVision emulator than in others to improve on graphics without touching the game code. The easiest example I can share: every frame a sprite is to be drawn, generate a hash of its 260 bits and use that to look into a table of "improved" shapes with 32x32 pixels @ 32 bit color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hm, what about porting over from MSX on some games? Especially Konami and Namco ports are very accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcnett Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hm, what about porting over from MSX on some games? Especially Konami and Namco ports are very accurate. Not enough RAM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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