14 replies to this topic

[Random Terrain]

Below is a link to a new page I put together. The color charts are interactive. Click on a color and the hexadecimal color value will be displayed.

The Atari 2600 color compatibility tools can help you quickly find colors that go great together (possibly saving you a lot of time and energy). Just click on the colors to see the results displayed in the test area. Notice the hexadecimal color values that appear above the palettes. Once you find the right colors, simply copy and paste the hexadecimal color values into your Atari 2600 program.

The NTSC / PAL color conversion tool works in a similar way to the others. Click on a color in either palette and the equivalent hexadecimal color values will be displayed. When there is no equivalent PAL color value, the next best thing is substituted.


www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html


 

Edited by Random Terrain, Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:32 PM.

[JAC!]

And I though I had gone crazy...
Last night I started coding my first 2600 demo. I expected the same color pattern as on Atari XL but it was different. Then, when I reduced the number of scanlines in the kernel it look different again!

Is the following correct:
- NTSC is detected by having 262 effective scanlines and has the same color pattern as Atari XL ($00 = grey, $30 = red, ...). Seems so from the color chart.
- PAL has, well, how many scan lines on VCS?

What is more common/would you suggest: Code for NTSC or for PAL? And will NTSC code run and display correctly on an European (PAL) real 2600?

[cd-w]

JAC!, on Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:19 PM, said:

And I though I had gone crazy...
Last night I started coding my first 2600 demo. I expected the same color pattern as on Atari XL but it was different. Then, when I reduced the number of scanlines in the kernel it look different again!

Is the following correct:
- NTSC is detected by having 262 effective scanlines and has the same color pattern as Atari XL ($00 = grey, $30 = red, ...). Seems so from the color chart.
- PAL has, well, how many scan lines on VCS?

What is more common/would you suggest: Code for NTSC or for PAL? And will NTSC code run and display correctly on an European (PAL) real 2600?

50Hz PAL has 312 scanlines on the Atari 2600, and the colours have different values.

I'd recommend coding for NTSC as the timings are tighter, and then converting to PAL later. Many TVs will display PAL60, which is a 60Hz (262 lines) image using PAL colours. If you use PAL60, all you need to do is provide different colour mappings.

Chris

[Random Terrain]

I put the color charts and tools on a separate page last night:

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html

Edited by Random Terrain, Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:28 AM.

[Sdw]

JAC!, on Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:19 PM, said:

What is more common/would you suggest: Code for NTSC or for PAL? And will NTSC code run and display correctly on an European (PAL) real 2600?

The Atari 2600 demo scene (the few of us there are...) tends to work for PAL, so I'd recommend going with that.
At least on my 2600jr NTSC carts just produce rolling image, so if you want me to be able to see your demo, go with PAL!

[JAC!]

>So if you want me to be able to see your demo, go with PAL!
For sure I want that For a start I'll go for NTSC because there my main effect relies on the order in the palette (no raster time/memory for a color table) and simply looks better. But I'll create a PAL version afterwards as suggested by cd-w. If the code is fast enough for 60 Hz, it'll also be fast enough for 50 Hz.

[Random Terrain]

I added an NTSC/PAL Color Conversion Tool to the page today:

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html#ntsc_pal_color_conversion

I also updated the first post in this thread.


 

[Philsan]

Random Terrain, on Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:59 PM, said:

I added an NTSC/PAL Color Conversion Tool to the page today:

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html#ntsc_pal_color_conversion

I also updated the first post in this thread.

You forgot this post:
http://www.atariage....ost__p__2116167

NTSC $10-$18 (greenish yellows) should be converted to PAL $30-$38 (greens) instead of $20-$28 (browns).
NTSC $1A could remain PAL $2A.
NTSC $1C and $1E could be converted to PAL $2E (the lighter brown) to have a bright color but in this case it is impossible to have the matching yellow.

Edited by Philsan, Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:47 PM.

[Random Terrain]

Philsan, on Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:45 PM, said:

Random Terrain, on Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:59 PM, said:

I added an NTSC/PAL Color Conversion Tool to the page today:

www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html#ntsc_pal_color_conversion

I also updated the first post in this thread.

You forgot this post:
http://www.atariage....ost__p__2116167

NTSC $10-$18 (greenish yellows) should be converted to PAL $30-$38 (greens) instead of $20-$28 (browns).
NTSC $1A could remain PAL $2A.
NTSC $1C and $1E could be converted to PAL $2E (the lighter brown) to have a bright color but in this case it is impossible to have the matching yellow.

Thanks. I added a note to the bottom of the conversion tool.

[Philsan]

It's not that I disagree, it's not a matter of taste, now the conversion tool is wrong!
Greenish yellows (NTSC $10-$18) shoud be converted to greens (PAL $30-$38) and not to browns (PAL $20-$28)!
I've done the NTSC to PAL conversion of Cave In and I assure you that title screen looks different using browns instead of greens.

NTSC $1C and $1E could be converted to PAL $2E (the lighter brown) to have a bright color like NTSC.
In this case, it is impossible to have the matching yellow so it's only my opinion, my taste.

[RevEng]

Here's the colours in question from Stella. While it isn't authoritative - there can be no authority on colours where NTSC is concerned - I find the colours match very well what I see on my CRT...



I honestly can see the darker $1# colours going either way.

[Philsan]

In my opinion, it is clear that darker 4/5 NTSC colors are more similar to PAL $3# than PAL $2#.
There is a green component in NTSC $10-18 colors (not in the last 3 colors).

If you're not convinced, I will make and post two versions of Cave In title screen.

[Random Terrain]

Philsan, on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:49 AM, said:

If you're not convinced, I will make and post two versions of Cave In title screen.

If you have time, that would help.

[Random Terrain]

Try this and see if it's any better:

http://www.randomter...olor_conversion

[Philsan]

Thank you, Duane, you always do a lot of work for us.

The conversion tool is better now but as promised, I will post the three screenshots (I have to make the "wrong" one).