23 replies to this topic

[fiddlepaddle]

I tried out an NES game I've had for awhile (Destiny of an Emperor). Turns out it's an RPG (walk around and find things, talk to people, and do battle type game, lots of text, menu choices, etc). I get bored with these kinds of games, but I played for a few minutes anyway. Got bored. Looked it up and it seems to have gotten pretty good reviews, but...

Anyway, it has a save feature, but it was zero-ed out so I took the cart apart and saw that it has a CR2032 battery soldered in, which was apparently dead. This got me to thinking about batteries in carts that sit in a box for years and years.

I assume someday one or more of these batteries will leak, possibly damaging the game. Have any of you thought about this and removed the batteries from these games you may never play again (or very rarely) to prevent this? It would actually be a pretty big project since it requires opening up every game that has a battery (sometimes maybe opening up the game to find out if it even HAS a battery), probably de-soldering the battery in most cases, and then reversing the process if/when I ever wanted to play again with a battery.

Not sure it would be worth it, except maybe for any rare games, but basically curious how many collectors would go this far? I doubt if I'll do it, but just wondering...

[Koopa64]

fiddlepaddle, on Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:07 PM, said:

I assume someday one or more of these batteries will leak, possibly damaging the game. Have any of you thought about this and removed the batteries from these games you may never play again (or very rarely) to prevent this?

I've never heard of an instance of battery leakage in a cartridge game. Dying batteries yes, but never leaking. The save RAM used in game carts probably uses a super small amount of power to hold onto data, so I can't imagine the stress the battery puts up with is too great.

However, there IS a kind of battery that often leaks. Batteries found on certain arcade boards (not all of them), namely the Neo-Geo MVS in the case I describe below. On MVS boards, if the battery leaks, the acid can eat away traces and sometimes ICs and other components if they are nearby. This is a serious issue that needs to be known to everyone. If you own any arcade boards, are going to buy any or know people who do own them, let the word be known that PCB batteries can definitely leak. Again in the case of the Neo MVS, the batteries WILL leak and if they do, that acid will destroy the board.

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It would actually be a pretty big project since it requires opening up every game that has a battery (sometimes maybe opening up the game to find out if it even HAS a battery), probably de-soldering the battery in most cases, and then reversing the process if/when I ever wanted to play again with a battery.

Since you mentioned the NES, licensed games that use the battery-backed save feature always have a gold label on the back, instead of a typical gray label for games without a battery.

[A_Locomotive]

CR2032 are lithium batteries so I don't think there is any risk of them leaking, I've never heard of any sort of lithium battery leaking before so I'd imagine these ones won't either and if they do probably not for a very very long time. I'm pretty sure the only type of batteries prone to leakage are alkaline batteries.

Edited by A_Locomotive, Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:09 AM.

[fiddlepaddle]

Glad to hear leakage is at least uncommon. I haven't ever seen a CR2032 leak, but I have opened up some old calculators that used LR44 type batteries that were dead and corroded and left some small amount of residue on the calculator contacts. In every case, they contained more than one battery, so maybe that leads to reverse charging, which wouldn't happen when a device only has one battery. I HAVE also seen types other than alkaline leak, pretty much always AA size, like nickel-cadmium and "heavy duty" (carbon-zinc?).

[Blarginatorr]

Considering how easy it is to open NES carts, desoldering and changing batteries shouldnt be a problem.
And as it was already earlier said, Lithium batteries cant really leak, due to their contents being relatively dry.
Lithiums have also around 8-10 year "shelf-life", meaning that it takes many years before they even start to loose significant amounts of their capacity, so not that rare to find Zelda carts with still functioning batteries.
I got a Famicom Wars from 1988 which battery still works. Too bad FC carts are bit tricky to open.

Having worked with lot of wristwatch batteries, some types like Silver-oxide batteries are also very prone to leak when their power been exhausted.
Not to mention archaic Mercury-oxide batteries from 1960-1970s, they make a nasty mess...
Tho, both of these are unlikely to be found in Videogaming hardware.

So, to sum it up, yes, leaving empty CR2032 batteries in your carts should be relatively safe.


Also that gold label thing, interesting, I didnt know that.

[Koopa64]

Blarginatorr, on Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:03 AM, said:

Considering how easy it is to open NES carts, desoldering and changing batteries shouldnt be a problem.

I forgot to make mention of this before. Any kind of direct soldering on a battery, can definitely cause it to explode, and/or reduce their lifespan. If you're especially paranoid you could wear some safety eyewear, but it may not seem so silly after they come in handy. Blarg said that lithiums are relatively dry, so you might be safe against an acid explosion, but the heat could reduce the battery's shelf life, so try to be quick with the soldering. Oh yeah, I might be remembering wrong but IIRC on those coin batteries, soldering can be a bit tricky to do on them, in that it doesn't stick too well.

Luckily, there is a solution to avoid all of the above, coin cell batteries can easily be bought with the tabs pre-stamped on (different from soldering), so all you need to do is desolder the old battery's tabs and stick the new one in and there's no worry of bad connections.

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Lithiums have also around 8-10 year "shelf-life", meaning that it takes many years before they even start to loose significant amounts of their capacity, so not that rare to find Zelda carts with still functioning batteries.
I got a Famicom Wars from 1988 which battery still works. Too bad FC carts are bit tricky to open.

I trust therefore '80s era CR2032 batteries were lithium-based? All of my NES carts with batteries still save information and those games are at least 20 years old now. Pretty damn incredible I'd say.

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Tho, both of these are unlikely to be found in Videogaming hardware.

I wouldn't be surprised if they can be found in Arcade hardware. Man have I seen some badly effed up arcade boards due to those fucking death batteries...

[Blarginatorr]

As far as I know, CR2032 (and other "CRXXXX") batteries have always been a Lithium only format.

But yeah, prestamped/spotwelded legs is a good option if going to replace the batteries properly.

[zombiecraig]

I've still never had a battery die in one of these carts.

I used to joke with my girlfriend, who is now my wife of 10+ years, that I was going to marry her because she was good with soldering. Then I would always have someone who could easily replace these batteries.

She still hasn't had to prove her skill to me!

[JerryTerrifying]

I've replaced all the batteries in all of my NES games and added battery holders so that I won't have to do any soldering in the future. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes per game.

The only game that had a dead battery was Zelda II though...the rest of the battery swaps I did before starting the games so that I don't have to worry about losing a save before I got around to beating the game.

[A_Locomotive]

fiddlepaddle, on Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:12 AM, said:

I HAVE also seen types other than alkaline leak, pretty much always AA size, like nickel-cadmium and "heavy duty" (carbon-zinc?).

It does happen but its no where as easy to do as it is with alkaline so it doesn't happen anywhere near as often.

Blarginatorr, on Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:10 PM, said:

As far as I know, CR2032 (and other "CRXXXX") batteries have always been a Lithium only format.

But yeah, prestamped/spotwelded legs is a good option if going to replace the batteries properly.

All batteries starting with a "C" are lithium, C is the letter designation for lithium in these types of battery.

[PAC MAN FEVER]

I had a gameboy game that had a battery, it was in my pocket when i went swimming. ( did not know it was in there) any way i opened it up and discovered that the battery leaked all over the game making it unplayable. so yes battery's can leak

[Blarginatorr]

PAC MAN FEVER, on Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:02 PM, said:

I had a gameboy game that had a battery, it was in my pocket when i went swimming. ( did not know it was in there) any way i opened it up and discovered that the battery leaked all over the game making it unplayable. so yes battery's can leak

Uh, nevermind this post.
Somehow I failed to read that it was the actual game that had been in the pocket alone, and leaked.


But I guess its fair to point out that Lithiums are still relatively safe as long you dont stick NES cartridges in your pants when going for a swim.
I know it sounds like a tempting way to impress ladies, but really, think of the poor games.

Edited by Blarginatorr, Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:10 PM.

[Skarrj]

PAC MAN FEVER, on Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:02 PM, said:

I had a gameboy game that had a battery, it was in my pocket when i went swimming. ( did not know it was in there) any way i opened it up and discovered that the battery leaked all over the game making it unplayable. so yes battery's can leak

...and the pool water had nothing to do with it being unplayable

[Koopa64]

Hah hah, very funny Mr. new user with only 16 posts... The Game Boy is a great handheld, I still use a pea soup GB to this day, perfectly playable.

[Skarrj]

Koopa64, on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:24 AM, said:

Hah hah, very funny Mr. new user with only 16 posts... The Game Boy is a great handheld, I still use a pea soup GB to this day, perfectly playable.

Not sure why my post count is relevent enough to draw your sarcastic comment...but ok

[Rex Dart]

Well, its being unplayable didn't have much to do with the topic, which is leaky batteries. It had one, it leaked, thus the forum prophecy was fulfilled.

edit: ooooOOOOoooo

Edited by Rex Dart, Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:45 PM.

[zombiecraig]

Skarrj, on Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:18 PM, said:

Koopa64, on Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:24 AM, said:

Hah hah, very funny Mr. new user with only 16 posts... The Game Boy is a great handheld, I still use a pea soup GB to this day, perfectly playable.

Not sure why my post count is relevent enough to draw your sarcastic comment...but ok

Agreed. Everyone has to start somewhere.

[Koopa64]

He still sounded like some smug ass kid who bad mouths the Game Boy because of the bad screen and other crap like that. That is exactly what his initial post implied. Read it again:

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...and the pool water had nothing to do with it being unplayable

Or at least, that's what it APPEARS to read as...

[zombiecraig]

Koopa64, on Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:15 AM, said:

He still sounded like some smug ass kid who bad mouths the Game Boy because of the bad screen and other crap like that. That is exactly what his initial post implied. Read it again:

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...and the pool water had nothing to do with it being unplayable

Or at least, that's what it APPEARS to read as...

I see your argument.

To me, it just read as the pool water probably didn't help the game at all, either. Maybe I'm wrong.

That's the problem with posting on the internet. Sarcasm and humor are sometimes difficult to decipher.

I just thought maybe you came off a little strong, is all.

I just hate to see a relative newcomer get slapped around too much, too soon.

Picked up three original Game Boy games this week, so I can assure you that I have no issues with the monochrome.

Back on topic, STILL haven't had any dead batteries!

[gdement]

I've never seen any lithiums leak. Interesting about it happening after getting soaked in a pool though, I wonder if that was the cause or if it was already leaking.
I've soldered battery holders on a few games but it's a pain finding something that will fit inside the shell. I think on all the sockets I've done so far, I had to shave them down with sandpaper to fit.

The only dead battery I can think of was in a Crystalis cartridge. However, it turned up dead again 6 months later, so I think there's something else wrong with it. Probably a bad diode is killing the batteries.
The only reason I put sockets in some other cartridges is because they're long RPGs, and I wanted a fresh battery before starting to play them.

I've had more problems with flash memory than bad batteries. It makes me wonder if flash is as reliable as it claims to be. According to the reliability specs that appear on flash datasheets, they should be much more reliable than what I've actually experienced.

[Skarrj]

Koopa64, on Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:15 AM, said:

He still sounded like some smug ass kid who bad mouths the Game Boy because of the bad screen and other crap like that. That is exactly what his initial post implied. Read it again:

Quote

...and the pool water had nothing to do with it being unplayable

Or at least, that's what it APPEARS to read as...

Actually what I was reffering to the fact that his game was also immersed in a liquid containing corrosive chemicals....but the leaky battery killed the game?

Smug...probably
Kid...hardly

I digress
I cant belive that some of these nes games the backup batteries are still kickin.

[Blarginatorr]

Something what I came up with after some pondering.
Maybe that lithium shorted from the pool water?
I know batteries can sometimes quite violently discharge themselves if shorted.

[Ataritard]

I got this Zelda game from Ebay. I assumed the battery exploded but I can't exclude the possibility that it just got wet. (Maybe some kid had it in his pocket and jumped in a pool:) The funny thing is that the game still worked... until I made it into a clock.

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[Atari_afternoon]

Nice

I made a clock out off a Tomb Raider CD tray!