34 replies to this topic

[Ryanw]

I can't help but think that down the line when the graphics of PS3/360 are no longer cutting edge, when the online components of their games are no longer supported, and when the hard drives have crapped out erasing people's Fallout 3 and Mass Effect, that the Wii will be the last system from this (and any future generation) that will be able to be fully enjoyed in the years that follow. Personally, the Wii only sees about as much playtime as any of the random previous generation consoles I have, but the way I see it, the aspects of PS3/360 that I mentioned are going to really hurt those systems in the years that follow.

Let's compare the gameplay experiences the Wii provides to the other two consoles of this generation. As of now, the Wii excels in providing quality games in the following genres: 2d platformers (Wario Land: Shake It!, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby's Epic Yarn), Fighters (Super Smash Bros Brawl, Tatsunoko vs Capcom) 3d Platformers (Super Mario Galaxy 1+2, de blob), racers (Mario Kart Wii, Excitebots: Trick Racing). I can go on and on, but for the most part, these type of games truly stand the test of time. You can throw in the motion control games as well but in my mind these won't be enjoyed by a vast majority of classic gamers down the road. Now, 2d platforming is still enjoyed by players revisiting NES and SNES, 3d platforming is also enjoyed more than you think (N64 was recently voted on as the best classic Nintendo console by readers of Nintendo Power), and fighting and racing games are also titles that are frequently revisited. When looking at the 360/PS3, what are some of the biggest selling and most critically acclaimed titles? Admittedly, these systems are providing the same genres as the ones mentioned on Wii, the only difference being these games sell next to nothing compared to a few genres on the PS3/360. These genres are of course first/third person shooters (Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War), RPGs/Open World games (Red Dead Redemption, Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age). I'm not saying these genres are BAD or NOT FUN, on the contrary, these are the types of games I probably enjoy the most right now. But with the exception of maybe select RPGs, these other game genres, FPS and open world games, suffer from the fact that they become outdated at a much quicker pace. Honestly, how often do you go back to your PS2 and pop in Grand Theft Auto 3? GTA IV improves on that experience in almost every way. Sure, there is some nostalgia factor for the PS2 GTA games, particularly Vice City for myself, but I can be honest and admit that GTA IV improves upon those games in every way just like I'm sure GTA V will improve on IV entering the next console generation.

Will 360/PS3 be enjoyed down the road? Absolutely. In my view, every console has redeeming qualities and timeless, must play games, and both these consoles have great games in the genres that I specifically mentioned for the Wii.. But where the Wii separates itself this generation is the fact that it continues to provide new installments to its iconic franchises in genres that have proven over the years to be ones that gamers will return to.

Edited by Ryanw, Wed Jun 1, 2011 10:11 PM.

[ATARI7800fan]

Ryanw, on Wed Jun 1, 2011 10:09 PM, said:

I can't help but think that down the line when the graphics of PS3/360 are no longer cutting edge, when the online components of their games are no longer supported, and when the hard drives have crapped out erasing people's Fallout 3 and Mass Effect, that the Wii will be the last system from this (and any future generation) that will be able to be fully enjoyed in the years that follow. Personally, the Wii only sees about as much playtime as any of the random previous generation consoles I have, but the way I see it, the aspects of PS3/360 that I mentioned are going to really hurt those systems in the years that follow.

Let's compare the gameplay experiences the Wii provides to the other two consoles of this generation. As of now, the Wii excels in providing quality games in the following genres: 2d platformers (Wario Land: Shake It!, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby's Epic Yarn), Fighters (Super Smash Bros Brawl, Tatsunoko vs Capcom) 3d Platformers (Super Mario Galaxy 1+2, de blob), racers (Mario Kart Wii, Excitebots: Trick Racing). I can go on and on, but for the most part, these type of games truly stand the test of time. You can throw in the motion control games as well but in my mind these won't be enjoyed by a vast majority of classic gamers down the road. Now, 2d platforming is still enjoyed by players revisiting NES and SNES, 3d platforming is also enjoyed more than you think (N64 was recently voted on as the best classic Nintendo console by readers of Nintendo Power), and fighting and racing games are also titles that are frequently revisited. When looking at the 360/PS3, what are some of the biggest selling and most critically acclaimed titles? Admittedly, these systems are providing the same genres as the ones mentioned on Wii, the only difference being these games sell next to nothing compared to a few genres on the PS3/360. These genres are of course first/third person shooters (Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War), RPGs/Open World games (Red Dead Redemption, Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age). I'm not saying these genres are BAD or NOT FUN, on the contrary, these are the types of games I probably enjoy the most right now. But with the exception of maybe select RPGs, these other game genres, FPS and open world games, suffer from the fact that they become outdated at a much quicker pace. Honestly, how often do you go back to your PS2 and pop in Grand Theft Auto 3? GTA IV improves on that experience in almost every way. Sure, there is some nostalgia factor for the PS2 GTA games, particularly Vice City for myself, but I can be honest and admit that GTA IV improves upon those games in every way just like I'm sure GTA V will improve on IV entering the next console generation.

Will 360/PS3 be enjoyed down the road? Absolutely. In my view, every console has redeeming qualities and timeless, must play games, and both these consoles have great games in the genres that I specifically mentioned for the Wii.. But where the Wii separates itself this generation is the fact that it continues to provide new installments to its iconic franchises in genres that have proven over the years to be ones that gamers will return to.

Good points though I feel mass effect is one series I will always go back to because there are so many options that change the story in the latter games that there are probably nearly hundreds of ways the third game can end. I have played Mass Effect 2 5 times over so far. As for online games, that is why I still find Halo 2 and Reach to be the best because of the amount of options and good campaigns. Reason I got rid of Halo 3 was because I know as soon as the next console comes out and they quit supporting the servers for it like they did with 2 I will have no reason to play it because it has a weak campaign.

Edited by ATARI7800fan, Thu Jun 2, 2011 1:29 PM.

[toptenmaterial]

I have never been into online games, so excluding that factor, I feel like PS3/360 are totally interchangable and share much of their library. I think that the Wii is totally original and succeeds on many levels.

I fear that the day is coming when you have to get online to play anything. If that day arrives, hopefully one of the major companies out there will create an alternative. Hell, maybe one of us will. Maybe you will!!!

[raskar42]

i don't know if wii will last as a collectable console. i think in 15 years it will may difficult to find a working used wiimote for cheap.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

I believe the Wii will get the majority of my gaming pleasure in the future. I love my PS3 but I have no doubt that when Sony are pushing the PS4, 5, 6, etc. they will kill the PS3's functionality. For evidence of how these online hooks will hamstring current high def consoles, just look to the ApocalyPS3

[wood_jl]

I should think a system can be designated as "classic" as long as there is physical media, a compatible electrical socket in the wall, and a compatible display available - and thereby function in the future. Seeing as how the 360 and PS3 can (even if not always) use physical media, I don't see why they wouldn't be included

(1) As soon as it all goes download, it will work until the hard drive (or whatever storage) fails, or a kill-switch tells it not to.

(2) As soon as it all goes "on the cloud" it will work until they shut it down.

I should think these would truly spell the end of "classic" gaming.

The kids won't want to be playing all those crappy old games anyway, so no loss to them. There will be a small subset of teary-eyed old/fat/grey baldies lamenting the passing of classic gaming, but the kids don't care; they'll be driving the industry playing the next huge gimmick game on the cloud as long as there's room on the credit card.

[Xot]

You bring up an excellent point, and it makes me wonder. If MS or Spny DO put out a "kill switch" update, would we know about it with enough warning (if any) to pull our consoles offline?

[jetset]

raskar42, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 3:01 PM, said:

i don't know if wii will last as a collectable console. i think in 15 years it will may difficult to find a working used wiimote for cheap.

Why? Are they supposed to be prone to failure or something?

[raskar42]

jetset, on Sat Jun 4, 2011 7:08 PM, said:

raskar42, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 3:01 PM, said:

i don't know if wii will last as a collectable console. i think in 15 years it will may difficult to find a working used wiimote for cheap.

Why? Are they supposed to be prone to failure or something?

no, but once nintendo and 3rd parties stops manufacturing them, it will be harder to find a functional one in the wild. it's not like a joystick where contacts can be cleaned or pins replaced. There are accelerometers, internal speakers and ir sensors.. it's a whole deal.



imo

[Matthew]

The last classic console was the Atari 2600. To suggest anything else in blasphemy!.

[Fyrman]

I use the Wii as a kid gaming console. If there are games my kids want to play and they are multi platform games, I will always choose the Wii. My kids (4, 6, and 14) have never complained about graphics, but they do enjoy the game play mechanics the Wii provides. As far as making the Wii the future classic console, I think it will fare just fine. With cheap and plentiful games there will always be something for the younger kids to play.

I find that younger kids don't give a rip about the graphics as much as us adults do. My 2 youngest enjoy the Genesis and NES just as much as the Wii.

[wood_jl]

raskar42, on Sat Jun 4, 2011 8:02 PM, said:

jetset, on Sat Jun 4, 2011 7:08 PM, said:

raskar42, on Thu Jun 2, 2011 3:01 PM, said:

i don't know if wii will last as a collectable console. i think in 15 years it will may difficult to find a working used wiimote for cheap.

Why? Are they supposed to be prone to failure or something?

no, but once nintendo and 3rd parties stops manufacturing them, it will be harder to find a functional one in the wild. it's not like a joystick where contacts can be cleaned or pins replaced. There are accelerometers, internal speakers and ir sensors.. it's a whole deal.

True, but with 87 Million Wiis sold so far (what's the Wii to Wiimote ratio? 2 or 3?) and no end in sight, how likely is it they'll be rare? The kids aren't going to give a shit about all that old-hat stuff in the near future, and retrogaming is just a tiny bump on the radar screen to feed off that huge unwanted supply.

Edited by wood_jl, Sun Jun 5, 2011 1:38 AM.

[AtariLeaf]

Any system or games that I pay for should be mine forever. If a company has the ability to "kill" my console because they want me to buy a new one, they've already lost my business.

Edited by AtariLeaf, Sun Jun 5, 2011 5:16 AM.

[toptenmaterial]

AtariLeaf, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 5:15 AM, said:

Any system or games that I pay for should be mine forever. If a company has the ability to "kill" my console because they want me to buy a new one, they've already lost my business.

I've heard this "feature" mentioned a few times. Is this hypothetical or can a company really lock you out of an old game?

Edit: After reading some more replies, and taking into account the heavy amount of online content, I guess abandoning online or multiplayer support means "yes".

Still wondering if the can cook your game/console though.

Edited by toptenmaterial, Sun Jun 5, 2011 6:45 AM.

[svenski]

Well in theory any console that is connected online for updates can be cooked. It has happened to some already , albeit usually unintentionally. It would be easy to do but there are loads of legal ramifications for doing so. Updates that counter hacks or soft mods are already here and can render hacked or modified machines totally useless. That is something that Nintendo and the like probably could get away with by their terms and conditions, warning you that any unauthorized hacks could damage your machine or limit future functionality etc. They can do it, but openly doing it is probably not going to happen anytime soon.

Removing online functionality though is already here.

[akator]

Can the Wii ever be a "classic" system?

If you can purchase a game and never own a physical copy of it, the system cannot be a classic system. Digital distribution is a fundamental industry change. Even using online updates for the OS or to patch games is an irreconcilable difference that prohibits a system from being classic. From a hardware perspective, this isn't because of networking but because of hard drives and large rewritable storage becoming standard.

If there are not at least a dozen successful arcade titles (games that were first released in the arcade and successful) that dominated sales in your console's game library, it cannot be a classic system. Because the arcade is now mostly irrelevant and therefore it is impossible for an arcade title to be successful, it is impossible for a current system to meet that requirement. The last system to have a large selection of successful arcade titles was the Dreamcast.

In 50 years the Wii might be "retro," but it can never be classic.

[AtariLeaf]

If I ever bought a Wii, do I need to EVER hook it up to the internet? Can I just buy some games and play them, even if that means some features (like online play which I don't do anyway) wouldn't work?

[toptenmaterial]

svenski, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 9:57 AM, said:

Updates that counter hacks or soft mods are already here and can render hacked or modified machines totally useless.

Yeah, pretty mean spirited, and probably counter-productive from a business standpoint. Why wouldn't the updates just remove the custom firmware and pirated ROMs quietly and discreetly?

Edited by toptenmaterial, Sun Jun 5, 2011 12:04 PM.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

toptenmaterial, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 6:36 AM, said:

I've heard this "feature" mentioned a few times. Is this hypothetical or can a company really lock you out of an old game?

I can site one good example (of many):
Microsoft pulls the plug on original XBox titles

Oh and this is not limited to consoles:
iPhone 'Kill Switch'

[atarigal]

AtariLeaf, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 12:01 PM, said:

If I ever bought a Wii, do I need to EVER hook it up to the internet? Can I just buy some games and play them, even if that means some features (like online play which I don't do anyway) wouldn't work?

Our Wii has never been hooked up to the internet. We didn't have wireless capability when we got it and haven't bothered to connect the Wii to the internet yet. My kids just use it to play the games they have.

Edited by atarigal, Sun Jun 5, 2011 1:14 PM.

[Jifremok]

AtariLeaf, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 12:01 PM, said:

If I ever bought a Wii, do I need to EVER hook it up to the internet? Can I just buy some games and play them, even if that means some features (like online play which I don't do anyway) wouldn't work?

There's system updates but but they are few and I can't even remember what they do. If you need any such updates to play a game, they'll be included on the game disc. You'd only be missing stuff that you could find on the Wii Shop Channel: WiiWare and Virtual Console. There isn't much WiiWare that's worth looking at, and the Virtual Console is mostly stuff you can get on older systems anyway.

So yeah. You can just buy some games and play them.

[Major Havoc 2049]

ComputerSpaceFan, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 12:57 PM, said:

toptenmaterial, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 6:36 AM, said:

I've heard this "feature" mentioned a few times. Is this hypothetical or can a company really lock you out of an old game?

I can site one good example (of many):
Microsoft pulls the plug on original XBox titles

Oh and this is not limited to consoles:
iPhone 'Kill Switch'

All they did was stop supporting the online features of those games. My Xbox still works and I can still play every single Xbox game that I own on it. With XBConnect, I can still play Halo, Halo 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Crimson Skies, and a few others online through my PC.

Edited by Major Havoc 2049, Sun Jun 5, 2011 2:09 PM.

[AtariLeaf]

Jifremok, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 1:14 PM, said:

AtariLeaf, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 12:01 PM, said:

If I ever bought a Wii, do I need to EVER hook it up to the internet? Can I just buy some games and play them, even if that means some features (like online play which I don't do anyway) wouldn't work?

There's system updates but but they are few and I can't even remember what they do. If you need any such updates to play a game, they'll be included on the game disc. You'd only be missing stuff that you could find on the Wii Shop Channel: WiiWare and Virtual Console. There isn't much WiiWare that's worth looking at, and the Virtual Console is mostly stuff you can get on older systems anyway.

So yeah. You can just buy some games and play them.

Good to know, thanks.

[otaku]

when it comes to original quality content the wii probably leads and I could see it being the most collectible. Newer consoles just don't seem that collectible and the net and Downloads are gonna be a big problem from a collectors point.

[toptenmaterial]

otaku, on Sun Jun 5, 2011 2:29 PM, said:

when it comes to original quality content the wii probably leads and I could see it being the most collectible. Newer consoles just don't seem that collectible and the net and Downloads are gonna be a big problem from a collectors point.

I agree with you, I do have a number of Wii games; aside from originality, they contain beautiful full-color manuals which we are increasingly seeing less and less. Not only that, there are a number of different paripharals and controllers which are unique collectors' items and and of themselves.

However, I must admit that a growning percentage of my retro gaming "collection" is downloaded content from the Virtual Console.