39 replies to this topic

[toptenmaterial]

I have been thinking about getting an old Apple or Mac as a retro gaming machine for a little while now. When I was a kid, I had friends who had Macs, and I have fond memories of playing SimCity and SimAnt, Flight Simulator, and watching flying toasters. Typing dirty words and listening to the computer pronounce them phonetically was also an endless source of amusement. So the question is, which computer should I get now? First of all, I am looking for something with a graphic interface. Also I don't intend to do any programming. I guess I'm wondering which computer would suit me best. Esthetically I really like the look of the Apple II, and also the Classic and Color Classic, something with a built-in monitor. How much does it cost to get into vintage Apple/Mac? Thanks.

Edited by toptenmaterial, Wed Jun 8, 2011 10:45 PM.

[bennybingo]

toptenmaterial, on Wed Jun 8, 2011 10:44 PM, said:

I have been thinking about getting an old Apple or Mac as a retro gaming machine for a little while now. When I was a kid, I had friends who had Macs, and I have fond memories of playing SimCity and SimAnt, Flight Simulator, and watching flying toasters. Typing dirty words and listening to the computer pronounce them phonetically was also an endless source of amusement. So the question is, which computer should I get now? First of all, I am looking for something with a graphic interface. Also I don't intend to do any programming. I guess I'm wondering which computer would suit me best. Esthetically I really like the look of the Apple II, and also the Classic and Color Classic, something with a built-in monitor. How much does it cost to get into vintage Apple/Mac? Thanks.

I heard there's a recycling center out Ax's way that has a starter kit or two.

[toptenmaterial]

Awww man, what a waste! If this were ten years ago I'd be planning a hiest.

[CommodoreStaffen]

toptenmaterial, on Wed Jun 8, 2011 10:44 PM, said:

I have been thinking about getting an old Apple or Mac as a retro gaming machine

Why in the name of all things logical would you want to do this?

Actually, I enjoy all sorts of games on my Mac Classic II. I don't know of any others capability, but I've had quite a fun time with mine.

[Hatta]

Apple IIgs, no question about it. You get all of the classic Apple II games, plus good versions of many classic Mac & Amiga games too. You get color versions of games like Dark Castle, ShadowGate, etc. Nice ports of Cinemaware games (Defender of the Crown, etc), great RPGs like the Bards Tale. Games like Arkanoid, Crystal Quest, and Thexder are gorgeous on that little RGB screen. I could go on, but just take a look around What Is The Apple IIGS.

For pricing, I see them go for around $50 on ebay, before shipping. Shipping is a problem, because the monitor is pretty heavy, and you want that monitor. Get a ROM03, they're more common, and have more RAM by default. You'll want to get one with both 3.5" and 5.25" floppy disks. Speaking of floppy disks, buy a bunch of blank floppies and a PC<->Mac serial cable, you can then dump any disk image you download with ADTPro.

The IIgs is a wonderful little machine, and I've had a lot more fun playing with it than with my Mac SE/30s. If you find a cheap Mac locally, it's worth picking it up to play with. But the IIGS is by far the best retro gaming machine Apple ever produced.

[toptenmaterial]

We used the Apple 2GS when I was in 6th grade, in 1992. I remember playing Carman Sandiago on it.

[Coleco]

toptenmaterial, on Thu Jun 9, 2011 3:11 PM, said:

We used the Apple 2GS when I was in 6th grade, in 1992. I remember playing Carman Sandiago on it.

I'd go with a Color Classic, if you can find one. It will give you color on games that use it and work fine for B&W games from the floppy area plus it's a really nice all-in-one design.
A slight upgrade that's not as nice of a package might be an LC II with a monitor that can do 640x480 graphics and then add an Apple II card to provide compatibility with most of the II gaming library.

As an attractive alternative, you might consider getting an original iMac with a USB floppy drive. It can run most of the really old-school stuff plus it can easily emulate an Apple II. Plus they're really, really cheap right now -- less than $100 -- and you can get it on the net to download some great old software.

[toptenmaterial]

I do remember the LC II, another school I went to used those in the computer lab. Those were the ones we used to type swears into and listen to the computer pronounce them :rollings: Happy times!

The Color Classic has gotta be the sexiest Mac out there, just as I believe that the 2600 JR is the sexiest Atari. Anything like that, including the old iMac, is a really good looking system. How's gaming on the Apple II, and is it just a straight command prompt operating system? Is there a good price guide out there for Macs?

[JamesD]

Avoid the oldest Macs, no hard drive, short on RAM and they are slooooooowwwww.

The Color Classic is sweet but can be pricey. If you can find one at a yard sale or something for a reasonable price, go for it. ebay usually commands a higher price than I think they are worth.

The SE/30s are pretty nice for a B&W Mac.

I picked up a Mac Classic II (slightly slower replacement for the SE/30) for under $30 because it has some bad capacitors. I'm debating on whether to fix it or do a compact Mac/Mac mini conversion. Now if I can just find a cheap used Mac mini...

Here is a speed comparison of the compact Macs:
http://lowendmac.com...act/index.shtml

[AtariMusicNet]

My oldest mac is the PowerMac 5500 and has it's tv card built in so I can even plug classic consoles and computers into it. Cost me a huge 99p on eBay and even plays 680x0 based games pretty well. Best buy I made last year

[Tempest]

I have a SE/30 and Classic that I use for B&W Mac gaming (the SE/30 runs too fast for some games). I also have a IIfx and a G3 Tower for later color games. The IIfx is more just for fun than serious gaming though.

I also have a Apple IIe (my original computer) and IIgs for 8-bit gaming. The Apple IIe is my favorite gaming system, mainly because it's the one I grew up with.

Tempest

[Jibbajaba]

Couldn't you get a Mac LC and put an Apple IIe card into it? Not sure if they have compatibility issues, but if not then you would be able to play old Mac and Apple II games.

Chris

[Rockin' Kat]

I'd figure out what I wanted and then go post a Wanted post to LowEndMac.com's Swap list.... yeah, it is Mac-centric, but I've gotten some prices that I'd consider good fair ones on Apple II stuff there too.

[almightytodd]

It's interesting to me that this topic has come up, as I've been thinking about Macintosh and Apple Computer a lot recently. I watched a documentary called, "Welcome to Macintosh" on Netflix streaming a few weeks ago. There was all of this grandiose discussion of how Macintosh had "changed the world" blah, blah, blah... ...they always seem to leave out the part where a 1987 512K RAM "Fat Mac" was almost 3,000 DOLLARS in 1987 (...or like $6,000 of today's dollars) and way beyond the reach of "normal" humans with bills to pay. That would help explain why even at it's peak, Macintosh never achieved anything beyond 10% of microcomputer market share.

That really brings home Atari's marketing slogan of, "Power without the Price" when they introduced the first sub-thousand-dollar-priced 1Mbyte RAM Atari ST computer; powered by the same Motorola 68000 CPU that was found in the Macintosh. I'm curious if Apple were to market a modern-day equivalent of the first generation Macintosh - a "Mac Flashback" or "Mac-inToy", if you will -- how inexpensively could such a machine be built?

They could replace the B & W CRT screen with a 512×342 pixel back-lit B & W LCD screen, give it a 4-Gig flash memory, and sell archived classic Macintosh software as $1 downloads from iTunes the way they do for their iPhone and iPod apps. They could emulate the M68000 on an FPGA or ARM, or create a system-on-a-chip (MOAC anyone?). Of course, even if they could produce them in their Chinese factories for 20 bucks-apiece in volume, in the fine tradition of Apple marketing they'd have to price them at least at $200... ...hey, it's Apple - it HAS to cost more!

But would members of the cult-of-Apple want to have anything to do with such a device? It seems to me that much of the appeal of Apple has always been to the gadget early-adopters; the people who want to be on the cutting edge of new technology... ...The "I have it and you don't because you aren't as sophisticated and successful as I am" people. I don't know if people of that mindset have any sense for nostalgia. I wonder if I would have as much nostalgia for Atari if it had crushed Apple, and was now the most successful technology company in the world? And would I hold as much contempt and animosity towards Apple and its devoted customers who seem to feel that there is some sort of pride to be had in contributing to a company's stock value, based on a strategy of wide profit margins? Hey! I buy seriously over-priced shit! I'm basically superior to all you LOSERS who seek out the greatest value for your hard-earned dollars...

But I digress... ...it's all wishful thinking anyway. Apple is making buckets of money doing what they're doing and they don't need any advice from some middle-aged computer geek who used to think it was cool to type BASIC language programs into a TRS-80 at Radio Shack... ...what's taking so long for those Commodore 64 remakes to start showing up?

[magnusfalkirk]

almightytodd, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 PM, said:

But I digress... ...it's all wishful thinking anyway. Apple is making buckets of money doing what they're doing and they don't need any advice from some middle-aged computer geek who used to think it was cool to type BASIC language programs into a TRS-80 at Radio Shack... ...what's taking so long for those Commodore 64 remakes to start showing up?

I don't know if you've actually looked at the specs on the "Commodore 64" remake or not but it's a modern pc in the old C64 box. On the Apple Inc front, I use Macs, I've got a Mac Mini and a MacBook Air. My wife has a MacBook. I'm not part of he cult of Macintosh and I think Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field needs to be destroyed. Jobs hated the Apple II and he did his best to drop it like a hot potato as soon as his precious Mac was in production, even though the II was bringing in the bulk of the money for years after the Mac debuted. I like the Mac better than Winblows, but I've also got an Apple //e, //c and a GS that I enjoy playing original Apple II games on and using several other Apple II programs on.

For someone looking to get into the retro Apple Computer scene I'd suggest the Apple II line, but I'm admittedly biased.

Dean

[toptenmaterial]

Did that C64 remake ever see the light of day? I've seen the website but the specs were kind of dated, so I wasn't sure if it had been released.

[Christophero Sly]

almightytodd, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 PM, said:

Apple is making buckets of money doing what they're doing and they don't need any advice from some middle-aged computer geek... <snip>

You got that part right, at least.

[almightytodd]

Christophero Sly, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:11 AM, said:

almightytodd, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 PM, said:

Apple is making buckets of money doing what they're doing and they don't need any advice from some middle-aged computer geek... <snip>

You got that part right, at least.

...ouch

[almightytodd]

magnusfalkirk, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:29 PM, said:

almightytodd, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 PM, said:

But I digress... ...it's all wishful thinking anyway. Apple is making buckets of money doing what they're doing and they don't need any advice from some middle-aged computer geek who used to think it was cool to type BASIC language programs into a TRS-80 at Radio Shack... ...what's taking so long for those Commodore 64 remakes to start showing up?

I don't know if you've actually looked at the specs on the "Commodore 64" remake or not but it's a modern pc in the old C64 box. On the Apple Inc front, I use Macs, I've got a Mac Mini and a MacBook Air. My wife has a MacBook. I'm not part of he cult of Macintosh and I think Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field needs to be destroyed. Jobs hated the Apple II and he did his best to drop it like a hot potato as soon as his precious Mac was in production, even though the II was bringing in the bulk of the money for years after the Mac debuted. I like the Mac better than Winblows, but I've also got an Apple //e, //c and a GS that I enjoy playing original Apple II games on and using several other Apple II programs on.

For someone looking to get into the retro Apple Computer scene I'd suggest the Apple II line, but I'm admittedly biased.

Dean

Yes, I'm aware of what the revised Commodore 64 is. I'm pretty curious about how they'll integrate the classic c-64 emulation in with the custom Linux operating system though. I think it's a cool idea and it gets back to the idea of "playing" with your home computer. Retro Apple II is interesting to me as well, but it is still hampered by the same issue of enforced copyright protection that Mac emulation is.

I'm just saying that I think there may be more people like me, who if we'd had the current-economy equivalent of $6,000 back in the 80's when the Macs came out, we might have wanted to "play" with that technology. I don't want to go to eBay and buy the old technology used, because then there's the issue of reliability. But it's the software and the evolution of the various GUI paradigms that I'm interested in exploring.

As you've noted with Steve Jobs - he has a history of wanting to leave the "Insanely Great" ideas of the past in the past, and keep moving forward to the next new thing.

[almightytodd]

I thought about this thread when I was reading about Richard Stallman at Wikipedia. He had this to say about Jobs after his death:

Steve Jobs, the pioneer of the computer as a jail made cool, designed to sever fools from their freedom, has died.
As Chicago Mayor Harold Washington said of the corrupt former Mayor Daley, "I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone." Nobody deserves to have to die - not Jobs, not Mr. Bill, not even people guilty of bigger evils than theirs. But we all deserve the end of Jobs' malign influence on people's computing.
Unfortunately, that influence continues despite his absence. We can only hope his successors, as they attempt to carry on his legacy, will be less effective.

—Richard Stallman

That's a bit more harsh than I would be comfortable with expressing myself, but I agree with his overall assessment.

[Emehr]

almightytodd, on Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:54 PM, said:

I thought about this thread when I was reading about Richard Stallman at Wikipedia. He had this to say about Jobs after his death: <snip> That's a bit more harsh than I would be comfortable with expressing myself, but I agree with his overall assessment.

WTF? The Apple-bashing thread is that way -->

[The Usotsuki]

Gonna say go with the GS. Runs almost all the Apple ][ 8-bit stuff and has a bunch of nice games of its own. Pretty good machine for 1986 standards.

[Mirage]

almightytodd, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 PM, said:

...they always seem to leave out the part where a 1987 512K RAM "Fat Mac" was almost 3,000 DOLLARS in 1987 (...or like $6,000 of today's dollars) and way beyond the reach of "normal" humans with bills to pay.

Where do you get your "facts", out of a Cracker Jack box? If you actually read this somewhere, it's incorrect. I had a regular 512K Mac in 1987, that I then took in for the e "enhanced" upgrade (new ROMs and also 1mb installed) and still had well under $1500 into it (probably more like $1200). I had bought it by working at Hardee's during the summer (my first 'real" job) and by selling my C64 setup. No way would I have been able to afford a $3000+ machine. I honestly think you're just making up things to be an Apple hater, which is pretty funny to throw the Apple hate back to the mid-80s LOL

Edited by Mirage, Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:14 AM.

[magnusfalkirk]

Mirage, on Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:14 AM, said:

almightytodd, on Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:40 PM, said:

...they always seem to leave out the part where a 1987 512K RAM "Fat Mac" was almost 3,000 DOLLARS in 1987 (...or like $6,000 of today's dollars) and way beyond the reach of "normal" humans with bills to pay.

Where do you get your "facts", out of a Cracker Jack box? If you actually read this somewhere, it's incorrect. I had a regular 512K Mac in 1987, that I then took in for the e "enhanced" upgrade (new ROMs and also 1mb installed) and still had well under $1500 into it (probably more like $1200). I had bought it by working at Hardee's during the summer (my first 'real" job) and by selling my C64 setup. No way would I have been able to afford a $3000+ machine. I honestly think you're just making up things to be an Apple hater, which is pretty funny to throw the Apple hate back to the mid-80s LOL

Maybe almightytodd read through the info on this site: http://oldcomputers.net/macintosh.html and saw that Apple introduced the Mac 512k (Fat Mac) in Sep of 1984 (bold for emphasis) for $3200 and made a stupid assumption that it still cost that much in 1987, even though this site also plainly states that in April of 1986 Apple introduced the Mac 512k Enhanced for $2000! Of course being a self professed Apple hater he's not going to try and get his facts straight in the first place. He's probably the kind of person that would say Steve Jobs founded Apple and forget completely that Steve Wozniak co-founded Apple with him.

[yell0w_lantern]

magnusfalkirk, on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:44 AM, said:

He's probably the kind of person that would say Steve Jobs founded Apple and forget completely that Steve Wozniak co-founded Apple with him.

Well, let's be honest here, most people casually familiar with Apple (ipad and ipod owners included) forget about Wozniak. The media machine doesn't mention him.

Personally, my brother and I grew up on the C64 but we didn't really have anything against the Apple or Atari computers other than the fact that we did not own one. However, I am skeptical of just how much "better" a modern Apple is than a PC. Then again, I don't like PCs very much so I think it's fair.

I just acquired a few vintage Apple II computers and I'll be enjoyoing them one they're up and running. I am gonig with the IIe because it was available and because I've used one a few times in my youth.