420 replies to this topic

[José Pereira]

This:


 Cuts.zip   228.47K   27 downloads

[José Pereira]

José Pereira, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

This:
all cuts in PAINT explained.png

Cuts.zip

OOOPPSS!...

Emkay this is what I need a help:
In the '.zip you have that Images cut.
You can send them eachother, better, I'll join them, no problem!
What I really want is someone good at these PHOTHOSOP/GIMP colouring...

Me, my ideas, G2F,... do the rest and I explain what I have in Mind.
Platforms are not neeeded now...
Thanks.

[fibrewire]

Crownland for Atari XL/XE
http://www.atarimani...land_20358.html

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

This:
all cuts in PAINT explained.png

Cuts.zip

To resemble the "original" , ofcourse we could use black and the first 4 greys. The PMs can be set to the brighter greys, to have them in the foreground.

[José Pereira]

fibrewire, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:32 PM, said:

Crownland for Atari XL/XE
http://www.atarimani...land_20358.html

Great...
Just saw the video... complete Game.

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:36 PM, said:

José Pereira, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

This:
all cuts in PAINT explained.png

Cuts.zip

To resemble the "original" , of course we could use black and the first 4 greys. The PMs can be set to the brighter greys, to have them in the foreground.

That's my problem...
I would need someone to get each one of that Images in that gray colours I am saying at '.png'
With that I can get PFs., PMs. and explain all...
Hope someone is good at 'GIMP' or any other painting program...
Thanks.
José Pereira.


EDIT: And then I can convert into 2:1, no problem... you can send me in 1:1.

Edited by José Pereira, Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:11 PM.

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:10 PM, said:

I would need someone to get each one of that Images in that gray colours I am saying at '.png'
With that I can get PFs., PMs. and explain all...

It's not useful.

If you want to make a parallax effect, you have to design the char-content directly.

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:28 PM, said:

José Pereira, on Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:10 PM, said:

I would need someone to get each one of that Images in that gray colours I am saying at '.png'
With that I can get PFs., PMs. and explain all...

It's not useful.

If you want to make a parallax effect, you have to design the char-content directly.

I may need not only a coder but also someone to design the Rocks
All things could work:
-> Bitmap GR.7 (more cycles even for an 'Emkay Music' ) and no BadLines
-> 40wide Mode
-> PRIOR0
-> P0&P1 Multicolour (only Hardware sprite, no problem in Oring) for our guy
-> P2 Dark Gray
-> P3 Water DownFall blue(s) with ORING PF2 and/or ORING P2
-> Missiles as 5th Player Four Missiles for all type of Objects/Enemys/...
(One each Line, DLIs. to have different ones/different colours on other Lines)

A Coder?
And someone to help at the Rocks... Music&Fxs. also...



Greets.
José Pereira.

[José Pereira]

Many more colours possible even to have different Levels with different Gfxs., like a Jungle, a Cannyon,...I think I like this one more:

[emkay]

Gr. 7 or Charmode, not and .

Charmode can help to move the full screen with some cycles. In gr. 7 you have to copy graphics data. This will cost more cpu cycles than it saves.

Possibly the double scanline charmode will help to have more different content moving in the background, because screendata uses half the memory. Charsets of 512 byte will be enough, so you can use 32 charsets. Or you can stand with 1024 bytes per charset and have all graphics content unique on one screen.

[simonl]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 AM, said:

Gr. 7 or Charmode, not and .

Charmode can help to move the full screen with some cycles. In gr. 7 you have to copy graphics data. This will cost more cpu cycles than it saves.

Possibly the double scanline charmode will help to have more different content moving in the background, because screendata uses half the memory. Charsets of 512 byte will be enough, so you can use 32 charsets. Or you can stand with 1024 bytes per charset and have all graphics content unique on one screen.

1024 byte charsets definitely make it easier, see attached (not scrolling yet, just cycling through the char sets to scroll the parallax layers). Please excuse terrible "programmer art"!

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Attached Files

•  downfall.xex.zip   1.89K   31 downloads

Edited by simonl, Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:36 AM.

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 AM, said:

Gr. 7 or Charmode, not and .

Charmode can help to move the full screen with some cycles. In gr. 7 you have to copy graphics data. This will cost more cpu cycles than it saves.

Possibly the double scanline charmode will help to have more different content moving in the background, because screendata uses half the memory. Charsets of 512 byte will be enough, so you can use 32 charsets. Or you can stand with 1024 bytes per charset and have all graphics content unique on one screen.

You're saying that 'your Mode' GR.7 it's not the best in here?
(even to have a good Music during playing...)
But if instead of Gr.7 two pixels high we go into 1pixel high in other Bitmap Mode? Will this help in anything (cycles, no Charsets Limits, Musics, calculations, no need for shifting Ypixels of the Plaforms,...)?

O.k., the problem here is to have:
FIRST: Right looking Rocks and colours.
The best it's to have large Rocks that will be smaller when they approach the center.

SECOND: But also important is to have the Platforms the most different colour/luminance then the Gfxs. rocks.

Here you have on the Left under Platforms Large Rocks using this Method and Blue colour9 with the PF0-DarkGray and PF1-White for the Plaforms (that will be always over/Mask the P2&P3 of the center xPos underlays):

Edited by José Pereira, Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:27 AM.

[José Pereira]

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:26 AM, said:

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 AM, said:

Gr. 7 or Charmode, not and .

Charmode can help to move the full screen with some cycles. In gr. 7 you have to copy graphics data. This will cost more cpu cycles than it saves.

Possibly the double scanline charmode will help to have more different content moving in the background, because screendata uses half the memory. Charsets of 512 byte will be enough, so you can use 32 charsets. Or you can stand with 1024 bytes per charset and have all graphics content unique on one screen.

You're saying that 'your Mode' GR.7 it's not the best in here?
(even to have a good Music during playing...)
But if instead of Gr.7 two pixels high we go into 1pixel high in other Bitmap Mode? Will this help in anything (cycles, no Charsets Limits, Musics, calculations, no need for shifting Ypixels of the Plaforms,...)?

O.k., the problem here is to have:
FIRST: Right looking Rocks and colours.
The best it's to have large Rocks that will be smaller when they approach the center.

SECOND: But also important is to have the Platforms the most different colour/luminance then the Gfxs. rocks.

Here you have on the Left under Platforms Large Rocks using this Method and Blue colour9 with the PF0-DarkGray and PF1-White for the Plaforms (that will be always over/Mask the P2&P3 of the center xPos underlays):

Ooops!...
Once again I forgot to say that those coloured Lines are the different Parallax vertical scroll zones.

[emkay]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:21 AM, said:

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 AM, said:

Gr. 7 or Charmode, not and .

Charmode can help to move the full screen with some cycles. In gr. 7 you have to copy graphics data. This will cost more cpu cycles than it saves.

Possibly the double scanline charmode will help to have more different content moving in the background, because screendata uses half the memory. Charsets of 512 byte will be enough, so you can use 32 charsets. Or you can stand with 1024 bytes per charset and have all graphics content unique on one screen.

1024 byte charsets definitely make it easier, see attached (not scrolling yet, just cycling through the char sets to scroll the parallax layers). Please excuse terrible "programmer art"!

It's a good start. The hard work could be to make the crossing chars in the ranges where different speeds appear, to enhance the parallax effect.
The bars change into PM graphics and some added "down" scrolling to make the slowest line looking "sanding still" .... makes the half of the game finished

Edited by emkay, Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:40 AM.

[José Pereira]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:21 AM, said:

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:55 AM, said:

Gr. 7 or Charmode, not and .

Charmode can help to move the full screen with some cycles. In gr. 7 you have to copy graphics data. This will cost more cpu cycles than it saves.

Possibly the double scanline charmode will help to have more different content moving in the background, because screendata uses half the memory. Charsets of 512 byte will be enough, so you can use 32 charsets. Or you can stand with 1024 bytes per charset and have all graphics content unique on one screen.

1024 byte charsets definitely make it easier, see attached (not scrolling yet, just cycling through the char sets to scroll the parallax layers). Please excuse terrible "programmer art"!

Man that is really great.
You are in CharMode where the Platform are using PF3 colour, right?


And is there any problem in the vertical scrolling of the PF3_Plaforms when the Man goes down and the PF2_Rocks?

[simonl]

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:41 AM, said:

You are in CharMode where the Platform are using PF3 colour, right?

Yep, it's currently using 120 chars, one blank, three for the platforms, the outermost parallax layer is a 6 * 4 tile, the next layer is 5 * 4, the next layer is 4 * 2 and the innermost is 3 * 2. The right side is separate chars so these don't have to be an exact mirror of the left, but they are currently just because I didn't bother to create two versions of the tiles. I think the platforms should be part of the background rather than pmgs as this makes writing the game engine a lot easier (the scrolling routine can pick the next line from a list and just shuffle up the pointers for the previous ones), and also it frees up all pmgs for the man/objects. As far as the background is concerned I don't think there's any reason it couldn't be in the pseudo-graphics 9 or 10 mode (i.e. where you tell GTIA it's in GR9 mode but leave the display list in char mode) so that would allow 16 shades of grey for the background and platforms which might look better. Also, I'm thinking it may be better to have the innermost parallax layer scroll at the same speed as the platforms, which would mean the outermost layer didn't have to be quite so heinously fast (each one is * 2 faster than the adjacent one).

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:41 AM, said:

And is there any problem in the vertical scrolling of the PF3_Plaforms when the Man goes down and the PF2_Rocks?

Answer hazy, ask again later

[José Pereira]

I was seeing the jaguar video and the platforms also scroll...
But I think we can make them 'not scroll'

We are in CharMode ANTIC4 then Vertical Fine scrolling is in 'char limits' but 1scanline at a time.
This is saying that you have the Platforms in the Chars Boundaries and the four Left and Right layers Parallax are the ones that will be constantly updating in the char lines of the Plathforms.
Hope you understand, me and my bad, bad english...



About 'our guy', objects and enemys they must be PMs only or we can have chars in charsets/cycles/... to do them in softsprites with some PMs. overlays?

Edited by José Pereira, Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:28 AM.

[Rybags]

Vertical fine-scroll can only really be affixed to one "layer". All other layers and the platforms have to be relatively adjusted.

So it probably makes sense for the scrolling to be used for the largest portion which would likely be the outermost wall parts.

Second outermost fine adjustments can be made by chset cycling.

Innermost layer could be made by simple tiling system, just 8 characters or so for entire lot, so the data for that could just be moved around.

Alternatively, the scrolling could be devised such that the VSCROL value always coincides e.g. for the outermost and innermost layer.

The outermost layer might move 9 pixels per frame, the innermost layer just 1. In that case, the fine-scroll component would always be the same for the two.

[emkay]

Things look better after the scrolling is in the vice versa direction to the slowest layer to have it "fixed" on the screen.

[José Pereira]

Rybags, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:39 AM, said:

Vertical fine-scroll can only really be affixed to one "layer". All other layers and the platforms have to be relatively adjusted.

So it probably makes sense for the scrolling to be used for the largest portion which would likely be the outermost wall parts.

Here Simonl is using PF3 on the Platforms... wouldn't be better if were the Platforms affixed to Vertical fine scrolling...
Wouldn't other fixed Layer mess/clash with the PF3 of the Platforms?


(And soft sprites with overlays for 2or3 small guys/objects on screen is possible or only PMs/just hardware sprites possible?)




José Pereira.

[Rybags]

What's the point of using PF3 in the platforms ?

A character cell can only have PF2 or PF3, not both.

The point of using characters isn't for extra colour but for speed of movement.

[emkay]

Just leave the background for the scrolling....

The whole game can be build on the PM graphics.

2 Players for the protagonist
2 player + 4 missiles for the platforms.


Also the bonuses appear always on top of a platform, they can be build with the available 2 player and 4 missiles.....

No need for flicker or other special programming stuff.

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:00 PM, said:

Just leave the background for the scrolling....

The whole game can be build on the PM graphics.

2 Players for the protagonist
2 player + 4 missiles for the platforms.


Also the bonuses appear always on top of a platform, they can be build with the available 2 player and 4 missiles.....

No need for flicker or other special programming stuff.

Yes, and no...
You would need 40wide PM2 and also 40wide PM3 for the

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:08 PM, said:

Yes, and no...
You would need 40wide PM2 and also 40wide PM3 for the

Never?

You always have gaps between the bars where the protagonist can fall through.... Make the bars unicolour would also be ok. The scrolling background will look impressive enough .

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:00 PM, said:

Just leave the background for the scrolling....

The whole game can be build on the PM graphics.

2 Players for the protagonist
2 player + 4 missiles for the platforms.


Also the bonuses appear always on top of a platform, they can be build with the available 2 player and 4 missiles.....

No need for flicker or other special programming stuff.

Platforms may need more than 32pixels x2 P2&P3 (even if more 16pixels M2&M3)...
But it would be better in the way that you don't have PF2&PF3 conflict if we you add another Gray in the Vertical grays (onto the PF3 register).
You could have 4Grays more Black-Background register:
PF0/PF1/PF2/PF3 are 4Grays

Platforms would need to have PMs.2&3 (or simply just P2&P3) sizes in quadruple width.
P0&P1 for the guy in Multicolour.
Objects and enemys are above Platforms and can 'DLI' be the same P2&P3.
(wouldn't this be a problem in the constant vertical scrolling and the badlines?)



OUT OF TOPIC: If you enable 5th Player and you are in PRIOR0:
-> The Missiles will 'OR' with the correspondant PFs.?
(M0&M1) Ored (PF0&PF1) / (M2/M3) Ored (PF2/PF3)
I think they will not as PF3 in 5th Player will be above PFs and under P0&P1
(only PRIOR8 you have that 'Black' conflict...)

-> And the Missiles as 5th Player will also or not 'OR' the correspondant Players:
Like (M0&M1) Ored (P0&P1) / (M2&M3) Ored (P2&P3)?