420 replies to this topic

[analmux]

See here (especially from 3:08 to 8:25): level 2 of NES-game 'battledragon'/'battletoads 2'.



OK, it is horizontal "3D-scrolling" floor tiles, but I'd be surprised if they didn't use a font-flipping trick here. I think this is the easiest method to do the vertical multi-parallax scroller in the background, with a minimum of CPU-usage. Just use normal Antic 4, no PMG needed (perhaps for the player-sprite itself). Possibly some double-buffering trick will help for only moving the platforms, after a scrolling-cycle must restart.

Edited by analmux, Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:24 PM.

[simonl]

Now with scrolling (or "rolling" to be exact).

Attached Thumbnails

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Attached Files

•  downfall.xex 2.zip   2.16K   48 downloads

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:20 PM, said:

Platforms may need more than 32pixels x2 P2&P3 (even if more 16pixels M2&M3)...

If you want to have the platforms as in the original game, ok. So the screen always has to scrol in the platform "moving" speed. The parallax can be built on that aswell ....
The essential point is to have the scrolling endless.

[José Pereira]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

Now with scrolling (or "rolling" to be exact).

That's it...
Just run the Monitor and you're using PF3 for the Platforms...
All PMs. free for Players/Objects....
Great...

[emkay]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

Now with scrolling (or "rolling" to be exact).

Any chance to make the sceen higher ?

[emkay]

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:29 PM, said:

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

Now with scrolling (or "rolling" to be exact).

That's it...
Just run the Monitor and you're using PF3 for the Platforms...
All PMs. free for Players/Objects....
Great...

So, now you have a base to work on a good parallax looking graphics content.

[simonl]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:37 PM, said:

Any chance to make the sceen higher ?

High enough for you?

Attached Thumbnails

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Attached Files

•  downfall.xex 3.zip   2.18K   40 downloads

[emkay]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:45 PM, said:

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:37 PM, said:

Any chance to make the sceen higher ?

High enough for you?

Good!

Now the guy can "downfall"

[Heaven/TQA]

Not bad Simon... what about masking the intersection chars of each layer together? should be possible...

[Rybags]

Platforms need to scroll independant of everything else, otherwise it just spoils the effect.

[Heaven/TQA]

rybags... platforms need to be the "top layer"... but should be no problem i guess... as the code itself is already there...

[emkay]

Rybags, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:49 PM, said:

Platforms need to scroll independant of everything else, otherwise it just spoils the effect.

That's why I supposed to have the slowest layer standing still.

PM bars could be moved fully independent.

[emkay]

Heaven/TQA, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:47 PM, said:

Not bad Simon... what about masking the intersection chars of each layer together? should be possible...

That's the part where José has to jump in

[simonl]

Rybags, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:49 PM, said:

Platforms need to scroll independant of everything else, otherwise it just spoils the effect.

How about this? The second level of parallax is now slightly glitchy (I need to redefine the graphics so they wrap properly) but you get the idea.

Attached Files

•  downfall.xex 4.zip   2.43K   62 downloads

[emkay]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:56 PM, said:

Rybags, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:49 PM, said:

Platforms need to scroll independant of everything else, otherwise it just spoils the effect.

How about this? The second level of parallax is now slightly glitchy (I need to redefine the graphics so they wrap properly) but you get the idea.

Is it a problem (codewise), to have the slowest layer slower than the platforms?

Edited by emkay, Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:59 PM.

[simonl]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:58 PM, said:

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:56 PM, said:

Rybags, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:49 PM, said:

Platforms need to scroll independant of everything else, otherwise it just spoils the effect.

How about this? The second level of parallax is now slightly glitchy (I need to redefine the graphics so they wrap properly) but you get the idea.

Is it a problem (codewise), to have the slowest layer slower than the platforms?

Probably not, but the videos I've seen of the Jag version have everything faster than the platforms so may as well stick with that.

[emkay]

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:12 PM, said:

Probably not, but the videos I've seen of the Jag version have everything faster than the platforms so may as well stick with that.

Ok. But the jumpy animations should be resolved.
Could you explain , how many chars you have used for one layer? And how many charstes you have used?

[Rybags]

I think the black lines between adjacent zones spoil it a bit (sure, it's only test data). Would look much better without.

I also think maybe PMs 0 and 1 could be used in PRIOR=00 to give the outer layer to make it brighter than the inner layers.
Of course this is costly, only leaves PM2/3 and Missiles.

Given that the background is white, ORing between PM2/3 could be negated by ensuring the luma when ORed with PF2 gives the same value.

A nice feature might be to have some overlap in the outer 2 layers, but I suspect the CPU demand would be a bit high.
In theory if 8 possible characters per layer were adjacent that should give 64 possible combinations of adjacent pixels that have to be merged.
That's only 1/2 K of data that would have to be copied into the character sets, so it might be doable.

[Heaven/TQA]

cool. but imho little bit too fast? not sure how it looks on real hw and on big screen... good that I have not touched keyboard...

[emkay]

Rybags, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:24 PM, said:

I think the black lines between adjacent zones spoil it a bit (sure, it's only test data). Would look much better without.

I also think maybe PMs 0 and 1 could be used in PRIOR=00 to give the outer layer to make it brighter than the inner layers.
Of course this is costly, only leaves PM2/3 and Missiles.

Given that the background is white, ORing between PM2/3 could be negated by ensuring the luma when ORed with PF2 gives the same value.

A nice feature might be to have some overlap in the outer 2 layers, but I suspect the CPU demand would be a bit high.
In theory if 8 possible characters per layer were adjacent that should give 64 possible combinations of adjacent pixels that have to be merged.
That's only 1/2 K of data that would have to be copied into the character sets, so it might be doable.

Why not rotating "8" charsets. I assumed 16 of that. Makes up to 16K of RAM usage. A fair amount for some real cool looking effect... in my opinion.

[Heaven/TQA]

i guess the game itself does not need many RAM for the code so we could "waste" some RAM for overlapping parallax fx.

[José Pereira]

emkay, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:39 PM, said:

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:29 PM, said:

simonl, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:25 PM, said:

Now with scrolling (or "rolling" to be exact).

That's it...
Just run the Monitor and you're using PF3 for the Platforms...
All PMs. free for Players/Objects....
Great...

So, now you have a base to work on a good parallax looking graphics content.

Or not... Maybe I wait for someone that can help and design the Rocks.
Isn't me that start with beeing just a copier of C64 games into A8


I am not Artist, I think you all know that.
I can get Things working the way I see, or not...
I normally just want a coder for my ideas, now what I want is someone that can really design the Rocks in all that Layers...
We have the begining... no, we ahve more than that!
First time someone just get what I was thinking in Minutes.
And this when I wake up yesterday and never saw this Jaguar game and never saw this (or not pay attention...) to this Vertical scrolling stuff.

I don't know, never talk with with Simonl. No compromise, but a to you Simonl.
If you want to go much further I am here... just call. Myb Phone it's nº99999999999... Oh? I thought I was on the eighties and people put there Phones Numbers on the Demos: you can 'call' me on my Personal Page sending me an E-Mail.


Thanks.
José Pereira.

[Creature XL]

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:30 PM, said:

Isn't me that start with beeing just a copier of C64 games into A8

José Pereira, on Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:30 PM, said:

First time someone just get what I was thinking in Minutes.

Is it surprising? Its not easy to "convert" games with up to 16 colors and up to 10 multicolor C64-size sprites AND with 48-byte mode AND with...
This game is almost perfect for converting to A8. Two multi-color sprites and some charset-cycling or with a bit of masking. And color-count is 5 so not even DLIs.

That is what others write since years: don't try to convert every C64 game. Create stuff suitable for A8 instead.


PS:
I have some ideas to speed up the soft-sprites in "our thing", but that has to wait as I am busy with another production, which looks promising for release, ATM

Edited by Creature XL, Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:08 PM.

[CyranoJ]

Hi guys, this is GREAT that there's actually interest in an a8 port of our game. Please know that if you want to go ahead with it, you have our blessings.

Jose, you don't need to rip the artwork from emulator screen grabs - just download the source code - all the assets are in there

[simonl]

Fixed the graphical glitches and attached the source so you can see what it's doing (basically nothing, just writes to CHBASE, VSCROL and occasionally updating the LMS all in immediate VBL). I think for the levels, treating the DL as a queue where on coarse scroll all the LMS operands are moved up a line and an appropriate LMS operand for the next selected line added to the last LMS would suffice. Given that the basic structure repeats every 12 lines and the "platform lines" could be selected from a small set, having a table of distinct lines, and a table of their corresponding LMS addresses would do, with lines being reused down the screen. Also, all these lines can be read only, as with the char sets (so a 400/5200 version would be easy).

I've also attached the tiles so you can marvel at my artistic skills Even better, you could send me something less hideous.

The char structure for a basic 12 line set is:

      -------Column 1-------- ======Column 2===== --- Col 3 ----- == Col 4 == ----- MID ----- == Col 5 == --- Col 6 ----- ======Column 7===== -------Column 8--------
.BYTE $04,$08,$0C,$10,$14,$18,$1C,$1F,$22,$25,$28,$2B,$2D,$2F,$31,$33,$35,$37,$00,$00,$00,$00,$39,$3B,$3D,$3F,$41,$43,$45,$47,$4A,$4D,$50,$53,$56,$5A,$5E,$62,$66,$6A
.BYTE $05,$09,$0D,$11,$15,$19,$1D,$20,$23,$26,$29,$2C,$2E,$30,$32,$34,$36,$38,$00,$00,$00,$00,$3A,$3C,$3E,$40,$42,$44,$46,$48,$4B,$4E,$51,$54,$57,$5B,$5F,$63,$67,$6B
.BYTE $06,$0A,$0E,$12,$16,$1A,$1E,$21,$24,$27,$2A,$2B,$2D,$2F,$31,$33,$35,$37,$00,$00,$00,$00,$39,$3B,$3D,$3F,$41,$43,$45,$49,$4C,$4F,$52,$55,$58,$5C,$60,$64,$68,$6C
.BYTE $07,$0B,$0F,$13,$17,$1B,$1C,$1F,$22,$25,$28,$2C,$2E,$30,$32,$34,$36,$38,$00,$00,$00,$00,$3A,$3C,$3E,$40,$42,$44,$46,$47,$4A,$4D,$50,$53,$59,$5D,$61,$65,$69,$6D
.BYTE $04,$08,$0C,$10,$14,$18,$1D,$20,$23,$26,$29,$2B,$2D,$2F,$31,$33,$35,$37,$00,$00,$00,$00,$39,$3B,$3D,$3F,$41,$43,$45,$48,$4B,$4E,$51,$54,$56,$5A,$5E,$62,$66,$6A
.BYTE $05,$09,$0D,$11,$15,$19,$1E,$21,$24,$27,$2A,$2C,$2E,$30,$32,$34,$36,$38,$00,$00,$00,$00,$3A,$3C,$3E,$40,$42,$44,$46,$49,$4C,$4F,$52,$55,$57,$5B,$5F,$63,$67,$6B
.BYTE $06,$0A,$0E,$12,$16,$1A,$1C,$1F,$22,$25,$28,$2B,$2D,$2F,$31,$33,$35,$37,$00,$00,$00,$00,$39,$3B,$3D,$3F,$41,$43,$45,$47,$4A,$4D,$50,$53,$58,$5C,$60,$64,$68,$6C
.BYTE $07,$0B,$0F,$13,$17,$1B,$1D,$20,$23,$26,$29,$2C,$2E,$30,$32,$34,$36,$38,$00,$00,$00,$00,$3A,$3C,$3E,$40,$42,$44,$46,$48,$4B,$4E,$51,$54,$59,$5D,$61,$65,$69,$6D
.BYTE $04,$08,$0C,$10,$14,$18,$1E,$21,$24,$27,$2A,$2B,$2D,$2F,$31,$33,$35,$37,$00,$00,$00,$00,$39,$3B,$3D,$3F,$41,$43,$45,$49,$4C,$4F,$52,$55,$56,$5A,$5E,$62,$66,$6A
.BYTE $05,$09,$0D,$11,$15,$19,$1C,$1F,$22,$25,$28,$2C,$2E,$30,$32,$34,$36,$38,$00,$00,$00,$00,$3A,$3C,$3E,$40,$42,$44,$46,$47,$4A,$4D,$50,$53,$57,$5B,$5F,$63,$67,$6B
.BYTE $06,$0A,$0E,$12,$16,$1A,$1D,$20,$23,$26,$29,$2B,$2D,$2F,$31,$33,$35,$37,$00,$00,$00,$00,$39,$3B,$3D,$3F,$41,$43,$45,$48,$4B,$4E,$51,$54,$58,$5C,$60,$64,$68,$6C
.BYTE $07,$0B,$0F,$13,$17,$1B,$1E,$21,$24,$27,$2A,$2C,$2E,$30,$32,$34,$36,$38,$00,$00,$00,$00,$3A,$3C,$3E,$40,$42,$44,$46,$49,$4C,$4F,$52,$55,$59,$5D,$61,$65,$69,$6D

so as you can see it uses up to $6D in the char set at the moment. Column 1 is offset 4 scanlines per frame, column 2 by 3, column 3 by 2 and column 4 by 1, plus the one scanline offset from the vertical scroll. As there's some chars left over now after resizing column 2 I think what this game really needs is conveyor belts (or is that just evil?).

Anyone have any thoughts on whether it would be better to have the background in psuedo-graphics 9 (16 shades) rather than multicolor text mode? It makes no difference programmatically, it's purely an aesthetic choice.

Anyway, I think I should probably try and remember where I put the Jag so I can try out the reference version!

Attached Files

•  Downfall 5.zip   4.51K   57 downloads
•  Tiles.zip   7.39K   36 downloads