If we take this from C64 how to get C64 ColourMap

[José Pereira]

 

From the other Topic, and because:

-> Our car use PM0&PM1

-> Enemy Car: P2andP3

 

 

How will you get all that C64 ColourMap colours on the sides and the Wall?

Lilac,Blue,Red,Yellow,White,Green when there's only PF2&PF3 two colours on A8 and all are at the same Lines and it's not a solution if using DLIs.

 

On A8 like C64 3common colours are:

-> PF0-Black

-> PF1-Gray(s) of the Roads

-> Backgr.- The Grass colour (Brown or any other)

 

 

 

Ideas, suggestions?

José Pereira.

Edited July 18, 2011 by José Pereira

[Bryan]

So, you're discovering that the 64 can generate some displays the Atari cannot?

 

With all retro computers it's best to design around their strengths. Or, just accept less color in a game like this one.

[José Pereira]

So, you're discovering that the 64 can generate some displays the Atari cannot?

 

With all retro computers it's best to design around their strengths. Or, just accept less color in a game like this one.

 

I accept for example that Hi and Middle Resolution or Hi-Resol. sprites are things that I cannot have on A8.

But porting C64 ColourMap or even their Bitmap Multicolour (like in LastNinja or Barbarian) I can get almost near or even more, or even more good looking with A8 Pallete but on static screens.

 

 

What I am trying is to see from here it's about Scrolling, in this case vertical scrolling, if there are any tricks/ways to get those PRIOR0 on Cars I don't have for the side Gfxs.

If I put PM2 on Left and PM3 on the right I can't cover all the Gfxs. and I wouldn't have them for the cars.

 

 

Don't know if it is possible any Rasters or PMs. re-use.

Or if it will flicker a lot and possible or not to have two PF2 and two PF3 in a SuperIRG Method (four C64 ColourMap in each scanline wouldn't be all that bad...)

 

 

 

That's why these posts, just to wait and read for others opinion.

Don't say that any of the coders didn't ever thought or try to port any of these games into A8

Edited July 18, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

Porting exactly C64 ColourMap into A8 PF2&PF3 with the possible DLIs. and A8 Pallete and C64:

 

Because Enemy cars seems to be just only one at the same time in each Line I have PM3 free but probably it will be used later... but it also doesn't seem to be usefull in any of the Gfxs.

[Synthpopalooza]

Porting exactly C64 ColourMap into A8 PF2&PF3 with the possible DLIs. and A8 Pallete and C64:

 

Because Enemy cars seems to be just only one at the same time in each Line I have PM3 free but probably it will be used later... but it also doesn't seem to be usefull in any of the Gfxs.

 

You asked about using Super IRG in this color map.

 

It is possible, though you will get a bit of flickering depending on what color settings you use. You can get 10 colors per char and 14 displayable on screen, plus you can dither the characters to reduce flicker.

 

Or if you like, you can also shift pf0-pf3 every vblank, which gives you 16 colors per char cell and 23 displayable on screen, but with no dithering possible.

 

Or you can use DIN mode (Antic 2/Antic 4 flip) which has higher resolution (320 monochrome pixels across mixed with 160 pixels at 5 colors) but 20 colors displayable when you take Graphics 0 artifacting into account. It is possible to have four color text with this mode at 8x8 pixel resolution.

 

Also keeping in mind, flicker modes like these will look better on NTSC ataris with a faster refresh rate than PAL ataris.

[emkay]

Porting exactly C64 ColourMap into A8 PF2&PF3 with the possible DLIs. and A8 Pallete and C64:

 

Because Enemy cars seems to be just only one at the same time in each Line I have PM3 free but probably it will be used later... but it also doesn't seem to be usefull in any of the Gfxs.

 

 

José

 

 

You really should find something better to think of in your spare time

 

It is not possible to create the colour map 1:1 . So let the C64 guys be happy about this.

 

On the A8 we can do several other ways to enhance games with colours. Flicker isn't the best solution, colour cycling is. But colour cycling doesn't work in all games.

 

And there is still the solution for a kernal in the heigth of the protagonist, to build a "colour block" around it, saving Colour registers and PMs for other moving objects.

[José Pereira]

 

And there is still the solution for a kernal in the heigth of the protagonist, to build a "colour block" around it, saving Colour registers and PMs for other moving objects.

 

 

 

Is it possible to get a kernal in the car?

 

I have Backgr.(Grass), PF0(Black) and PF1(Road-Gray).

 

PF0 it's alreay on the Black, PF1 is used on the Road, how can we change by a kernal to have, for example two other colours in the car?

It would need something like this:

But then what two colour registers would be kernal changed and how can you always have a concrete scanline xPos. where to do the kernal?

[emkay]

 

PF0 it's alreay on the Black, PF1 is used on the Road, how can we change by a kernal to have, for example two other colours in the car?

It would need something like this:

But then what two colour registers would be kernal changed and how can you always have a concrete scanline xPos. where to do the kernal?

 

Because the kernal allows "everything", you can multiplex the PMg in prior 0, manipulate scroll registers.... and else ....

 

Start of the kernal is always the lines up and down as the car moves. Starting at the charmode line ...

[oky2000]

Start with something that is on A8 like Elektraglide and put cars on it, that way you are building on what someone else did with unique features of A8 chipset

 

Or even try doing the forest level of Shadow of the Beast from the Amiga.

 

Both those games are designed around raster colour changes to improve the onscreen colours massively with the use of a large palette to play with, play to the strengths of the machine as others have said

[José Pereira]

 

PF0 it's alreay on the Black, PF1 is used on the Road, how can we change by a kernal to have, for example two other colours in the car?

It would need something like this:

But then what two colour registers would be kernal changed and how can you always have a concrete scanline xPos. where to do the kernal?

 

Because the kernal allows "everything", you can multiplex the PMg in prior 0, manipulate scroll registers.... and else ....

 

Start of the kernal is always the lines up and down as the car moves. Starting at the charmode line ...

 

Lines and up and down the car? But, if we are talking the same thing, I want is to have two new colours on the cars and not waste PRIOR0 PMs on it... and for that I would need to change to PFs. colour registers. That I call Mid-scanline changinge (like we can, for example do on GED at G2F, but if CharMode not possible on BadLines), but this would be also very, very cycle use?

Can you be more concrete, and say how will you have that two colours in the car?

[emkay]

Lines and up and down the car? But, if we are talking the same thing, I want is to have two new colours on the cars and not waste PRIOR0 PMs on it... and for that I would need to change to PFs. colour registers. That I call Mid-scanline changinge (like we can, for example do on GED at G2F, but if CharMode not possible on BadLines), but this would be also very, very cycle use?

Can you be more concrete, and say how will you have that two colours in the car?

 

 

You do not WASTE PRIOR 0 , You can switch directly on the horizontal position, to gain multiplexed PMg.

 

Badlines can be removed with scrollregisters...

[José Pereira]

Start with something that is on A8 like Elektraglide and put cars on it, that way you are building on what someone else did with unique features of A8 chipset

 

Or even try doing the forest level of Shadow of the Beast from the Amiga.

 

Both those games are designed around raster colour changes to improve the onscreen colours massively with the use of a large palette to play with, play to the strengths of the machine as others have said

 

 

This is just to 'expand knowledge' and see what could be done: Tricks, learn about 'colour changing',...

We can have better than C64 in ProjectM, SpaceHarrier 3D GR.7 or GTIA and C64 would have better for Armalyte/sprites/2D with lots of sprites/1:1 and 2:1 Mixing,...

But if we on the past have a large A8 Market and Out Run, Power Drift or others had A8 versions and A8 coders improve their knowledges like the C64 ones, how they would done these type of games on A8, just this!

What would had been possible (it doesn't necessarily be understanded as a try to port or anyone code this type of games today)

Just some free talking here to all... coders can say their opinions, I am not force them to code anything.

(Was thinking and see some Elektraglide last night and have some questions... but would put them later, as they aren't exactly what I am trying to find here...)

[emkay]

Start with something that is on A8 like Elektraglide and put cars on it, that way you are building on what someone else did with unique features of A8 chipset

 

Good idea.

[José Pereira]

Start with something that is on A8 like Elektraglide and put cars on it, that way you are building on what someone else did with unique features of A8 chipset

 

Good idea.

To see things that have been already done I would not be here...

Why do I think that people always start saying something and I always feel that it's just talking and never see concrete answers.

 

EMKAY, probably my English, but you answer that I am not "WASTE PRIOR0" and I am even more

 

 

Can we Rewind and start this again?

We can, for example use this (seems simple, but it would be or not? A8 impossible?):

Edited July 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

 

 

Can we Rewind and start this again?

We can, for example use this (seems simple, but it would be or not? A8 impossible?):

 

Why not? It's just a matter of programming the multiplexer in the kernal.

[José Pereira]

 

 

Can we Rewind and start this again?

We can, for example use this (seems simple, but it would be or not? A8 impossible?):

 

Why not? It's just a matter of programming the multiplexer in the kernal.

 

 

You have there six, I repeat six C64 colourMap colours where you'll only have two on A8 (PF2&PF3).

You'll have to create more four colours... Two PF2 and two PF3, right?

 

And if you then have another of these Gfx. in another Lines and that all that C64 ColourMap are at different xPos. (or even get Taller and are above the backwards small gfx?)?

Here you have just one more of that Gfx:

[emkay]

 

You have there six, I repeat six C64 colourMap colours where you'll only have two on A8 (PF2&PF3).

You'll have to create more four colours... Two PF2 and two PF3, right?

 

And if you then have another of these Gfx. in another Lines and that all that C64 ColourMap are at different xPos. (or even get Taller and are above the backwards small gfx?)?

Here you have just one more of that Gfx:

 

 

5 colours of the background.

Prior 0 gives 4 colours ( 2x2 at the same hue)

 

makes 9 colours without any "trick"...

[José Pereira]

makes 9 colours without any "trick"...

 

 

 

 

Emkay I know that for Months and that's what I've done thousands of times on my Pictures and ideas posted here.

(I know how to 'OR' colours/luminances...)

Answers like this are for my Last Ninja screens .

 

If you have another Gfx. on the right side of the screen you'll normally do:

PM2 PRIOR0 Left/ ROAD / PM3 PRIOR0 Right

But I advice you to go into YouTube and see some videos because the sides would have the Gfxs. at different xPos. increasing wide and get taller when they come into bottom and you'll soon see that PM2 or PM3 wouldn't/couldn't cover them.

Edited July 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

If you have another Gfx. on the right side of the screen you'll normally do:

PM2 PRIOR0 Left/ ROAD / PM3 PRIOR0 Right

But I advice you to go into YouTube and see some videos because the sides would have the Gfxs. at different xPos. increasing wide and get taller when they come into bottom and you'll soon see that PM2 or PM3 would cover them.

 

 

 

Ofcourse you have to adjust the Player shape to the playfield graphics.

[emkay]

But I advice you to go into YouTube and see some videos because the sides would have the Gfxs. at different xPos. increasing wide and get taller when they come into bottom and you'll soon see that PM2 or PM3 wouldn't/couldn't cover them.

 

 

Then only cover what can be covered Playfield colours still there .... Windows and lights do not need to have the colours of the car's body... and so on...

[José Pereira]

If you have another Gfx. on the right side of the screen you'll normally do:

PM2 PRIOR0 Left/ ROAD / PM3 PRIOR0 Right

But I advice you to go into YouTube and see some videos because the sides would have the Gfxs. at different xPos. increasing wide and get taller when they come into bottom and you'll soon see that PM2 or PM3 would cover them.

 

 

 

Ofcourse you have to adjust the Player shape to the playfield graphics.

 

 

So, where the Miracle in that?

And I still need colours for the Car (or the Enemys ones...)

Still can't even see how will you Raster change colours on our car?

 

Emkay is it a great work/time loss or can you post some pictures when you are trying to help and give me answers.

But thanks to you as you are the only one trying to help me ... is it possible that the coders around here don't say nothing

[José Pereira]

 

If using ANTIC4 and use VSCROLL Trick to not have the BadLines problem is it possible to have go changing the scanlines like here (for example):

PF0-Red/White

PF1-Gray of the Road

Backgr.-Green/Light Green

[Heaven/TQA]

Start with something that is on A8 like Elektraglide and put cars on it, that way you are building on what someone else did with unique features of A8 chipset

 

Or even try doing the forest level of Shadow of the Beast from the Amiga.

 

Both those games are designed around raster colour changes to improve the onscreen colours massively with the use of a large palette to play with, play to the strengths of the machine as others have said

 

yup.

[José Pereira]

Start with something that is on A8 like Elektraglide and put cars on it, that way you are building on what someone else did with unique features of A8 chipset

 

Or even try doing the forest level of Shadow of the Beast from the Amiga.

 

Both those games are designed around raster colour changes to improve the onscreen colours massively with the use of a large palette to play with, play to the strengths of the machine as others have said

 

yup.

 

Come on... can't we just talk and discuss possible solutions or ways to get some things/type of games on A8?

Where's the problem of that?

 

A8 Elektraglide? But why wouldn't we just talk about solutions to have a Turbo Charge or even a Power Drift on A8 when almost all the computers have found solutions (even some of the 'found' solutions were bad solutions or the Machine isn't up to the work...)

 

No coder here would feel responsible for a port/conversion, it's just a talk for God sake...

This is not a question for me to do or use the A8 capabilities... This is a Thread to talk about this type of games and what could be done on A8!

 

Why it seems that people never want to talk when Things get more technical

Probably because there's many Things that can be done on A8 and people aren't doing or is it me?

Edited July 19, 2011 by José Pereira

[Bryan]

The problem is there's a huge gulf between a screen and an engine. Until someone finds a way to make the coloring work and combines it with a fast enough code that can handle all scenarios needed by the game at a good frame rate, it's just not that exciting.