36 replies to this topic

[Andrew Davie]

I'm testing the waters. It's looking likely that Boulder Dash® may make its way to cartridge form -- let's say for Christmas.
BUT, there are a few little issues I'd like to sort out, so I thought I'd try a few polls to see what the general consensus is.
Please have a play of the binary, let me know what you think about modifying caves to suit the '2600.
Binary is in the first post of thread http://www.atariage....r-demo-release/
To be clearer, the sort of modification I'm talking about is in things like the intermissions where you have to drop a boulder on a firefly -- it's hard to get the timing right if the firefly is a couple screens down and you can't see it to get your timing right!

[Philsan]

I hope Boulder Dash will make its way to BOXED cartridge form.
Such a masterpiece definitely deserves a nice box + manual.

[Pioneer4x4]

I voted to do what ever is needed for best gameplay. BUT since this appears to be a breakthrough game, that might end up costing us a couple of $$, why not release both!

[maiki]

I guess the game runs a bit slower on PAL... which is good since I have a PAL console and have found it a bit fast for me.

[roland p]

I voted 'Do whatever necessary to improve gameplay'

Forcing the levels to be 'perfect', but unplayable, is not the way to go imho.

Quote

Please have a play of the binary, let me know what you think about modifying caves to suit the '2600.

I haven't finished the first cave. What would you modify to the first cave?

Edited by roland p, Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:28 AM.

[GroovyBee]

My vote goes to changing levels so that you don't get frustrated with the game. However, if you and Thomas are fed up to the back teeth with looking at the code, optimising it etc., etc. and just want to ship it "as is", that would be understandable too.

[PAC-MAN-RED]

Would it be possible to have the option of selecting between the Original levels and the 2600 redone levels?

Illya

[Godzilla]

i like the option to select both, but if i had to choose id choose modded for the 2600 if that were the only option available. CAN'T wait for this to be real! :-)

[tremoloman2006]

Andrew,

I'll take Boulderdash for the 2600 in any format I can get my grubby hands on!
I'm so psyched you are looking into releasing it! I'm definitely in for at least 2 copies!

[Amstari]

Originally I would have said don't change it but I have now changed my mind. It would be great if you could selected between both versions though.

My partner was watching me play the Boulder Dash demo today and she said "Isn't it hard to play when you can only see that much of the level on the screen?" So I played a few levels of the Amstrad CPC version and I know what she means, it is a lot easier being able to see more of the level.

[Rom Hunter]

Showing more of the level onscreen would certainly improve gameplay.

IMO better gameplay comes first.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Amstari, on Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 PM, said:

My partner was watching me play the Boulder Dash demo today and she said "Isn't it hard to play when you can only see that much of the level on the screen?" So I played a few levels of the Amstrad CPC version and I know what she means, it is a lot easier being able to see more of the level.

Due to the display type we have chosen and the limited capabilities of the 2600, there is not much we can do about that. Therefore we implemented the look around function which should help a bit. Also the screen scrolling anticipates in which direction you are moving and scrolls a bit ahead.

We could scroll one more row ahead vertically, but I am not sure if that wouldn't be too much (ff you go towards the left and right borders, the screen will scroll 3 columns; if you go to the upper and lower borders, it will only scroll 2 rows; we could make that 3).

[r_type2600]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:23 AM, said:

Amstari, on Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 PM, said:

My partner was watching me play the Boulder Dash demo today and she said "Isn't it hard to play when you can only see that much of the level on the screen?" So I played a few levels of the Amstrad CPC version and I know what she means, it is a lot easier being able to see more of the level.

Due to the display type we have chosen and the limited capabilities of the 2600, there is not much we can do about that. Therefore we implemented the look around function which should help a bit. Also the screen scrolling anticipates in which direction you are moving and scrolls a bit ahead.

We could scroll one more row ahead vertically, but I am not sure if that wouldn't be too much (ff you go towards the left and right borders, the screen will scroll 3 columns; if you go to the upper and lower borders, it will only scroll 2 rows; we could make that 3).

No worry - that's actually one of the cool things about 2600 ports from superior systems.
No matter how possibly close the conversion is, the 2600 game will always feel and play slightly differently - so it's almost like experiencing a new original game, spiced with a welcome sense of familiarity.
That's the real fun of getting to play an old classic on the 2600 (compare that to playing the 47th iteration of Namco Museum on the latest console).

Harder is ok, essential is that the gameplay remains smooth and fair, and that's why I voted for the screen adjustments where necessary

[Crazy Climber]

Always best to do what is needed to improve gameplay when working with a "limited capability" console. Some ports of arcade games to consoles that had to make sacrifices I ended up liking better. I think that same principle would apply here.

[roland p]

I think it is not a big problem if the levels are a little harder. If you play the level long enough, you will memorize the level in your head and finally be able to finish it?

[Amstari]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:23 AM, said:

Due to the display type we have chosen and the limited capabilities of the 2600, there is not much we can do about that. Therefore we implemented the look around function which should help a bit. Also the screen scrolling anticipates in which direction you are moving and scrolls a bit ahead.

We could scroll one more row ahead vertically, but I am not sure if that wouldn't be too much (ff you go towards the left and right borders, the screen will scroll 3 columns; if you go to the upper and lower borders, it will only scroll 2 rows; we could make that 3).

I'm extremely impressed by what you have been able to do with the 2600 version. I forgot about the look around function.

I think the original version can be played with the smaller area on screen but I can also see that gameplay would benefit from levels edited to suit the screen. Is there enough space left to put both "easy" (edited) and "hard" (original) levels on the one cart?

[Andrew Davie]

Amstari, on Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:09 PM, said:

Originally I would have said don't change it but I have now changed my mind. It would be great if you could selected between both versions though.

My partner was watching me play the Boulder Dash demo today and she said "Isn't it hard to play when you can only see that much of the level on the screen?" So I played a few levels of the Amstrad CPC version and I know what she means, it is a lot easier being able to see more of the level.

This is where the 'look-around' feature is useful.
Press select (on Stella: hold down F1) while using the arrow keys. Now you can see the whole board.
Release F1 to continue normal movement.

[Random Terrain]

Andrew Davie, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:53 AM, said:

This is where the 'look-around' feature is useful.
Press select (on Stella: hold down F1) while using the arrow keys. Now you can see the whole board.
Release F1 to continue normal movement.

People will be playing the finished game on a real console with a real joystick, so they'll probably want to toggle between normal and 'look-around' modes instead of holding down the Select switch. The average joystick or even a Sega controller takes two hands to use, so it would be hard for most people to hold down the Select switch and use a controller at the same time.

If you have a spare bit, you could toggle between modes with the Select switch, or better yet, allow the player to double click the fire button to switch between modes. Double clicking would be great for people who are not sitting close to their consoles.

Edited by Random Terrain, Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:24 AM.

[GroovyBee]

Andrew Davie, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:53 AM, said:

This is where the 'look-around' feature is useful.

When you use the feature you're penalised by the game timer ticking down . In my mind, if you need to use the feature to complete a level then maybe the game timer should stop ticking?

[Andrew Davie]

GroovyBee, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:42 AM, said:

Andrew Davie, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:53 AM, said:

This is where the 'look-around' feature is useful.

When you use the feature you're penalised by the game timer ticking down . In my mind, if you need to use the feature to complete a level then maybe the game timer should stop ticking?

LOL. No, you'll just be a bit better remembering the layout the next time you play the level, and more judicious with your use of look-around

[GroovyBee]

Andrew Davie, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:13 AM, said:

LOL. No, you'll just be a bit better remembering the layout the next time you play the level, and more judicious with your use of look-around

It depends how complex the levels are .

[Thomas Jentzsch]

GroovyBee, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:42 AM, said:

When you use the feature you're penalised by the game timer ticking down . In my mind, if you need to use the feature to complete a level then maybe the game timer should stop ticking?

You don't need it, but sometimes it makes it easier. Not sure about stopping the timer completely. Maybe it should tick slower, e.g. at half speed?

Edited by Thomas Jentzsch, Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:19 AM.

[GroovyBee]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:19 AM, said:

Maybe it should tick slower, e.g. at half speed?

I think that would be a good compromise.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Random Terrain, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:36 AM, said:

People will be playing the finished game on a real console with a real joystick, so they'll probably want to toggle between normal and 'look-around' modes instead of holding down the Select switch. The average joystick or even a Sega controller takes two hands to use, so it would be hard for most peoplep to hold down the Select switch and use a controller at the same time.

If you have a spare bit, you could toggle between modes with the Select switch, or better yet, allow the player to double click the fire button to switch between modes. Double clicking would be great for people who are not sitting close to their consoles.

I understand your problem. Not sure if double clicking will work. It it is triggered too easy during the game, it may become more annoying than helpful.

But maybe we could support the Genesis two button controller and put look around at the 2nd button too.

[Andrew Davie]

Random Terrain, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:36 AM, said:

Andrew Davie, on Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:53 AM, said:

This is where the 'look-around' feature is useful.
Press select (on Stella: hold down F1) while using the arrow keys. Now you can see the whole board.
Release F1 to continue normal movement.

People will be playing the finished game on a real console with a real joystick, so they'll probably want to toggle between normal and 'look-around' modes instead of holding down the Select switch. The average joystick or even a Sega controller takes two hands to use, so it would be hard for most peoplep to hold down the Select switch and use a controller at the same time.

If you have a spare bit, you could toggle between modes with the Select switch, or better yet, allow the player to double click the fire button to switch between modes. Double clicking would be great for people who are not sitting close to their consoles.

These are good points, and I basically agree. Early-on I had a "hold button down for a second" to switch into look-around mode. Then you can (keeping the button pressed) look around. Releasing the button switches back to normal mode. I may go back to that.