39 replies to this topic

[HatefulGravey]

SoulBlazer, on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:58 PM, said:

BTW, what is Shadow Complex?

Metroid on crack.

Its a great game and I'm shocked that you missed it. It got a lot of attention and is a great game, one of the very best on XBLA.

[Metal Jesus]

SoulBlazer, on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:58 PM, said:

BTW, what is Shadow Complex?

Shadow Complex is a platformer very similar to Super Metroid in style but it uses the Unreal 3 engine, so it has beautiful 3D graphics. The game, graphics, control and level design is all top knotch and compares with the best Metroid games made. It's excellent!

[wood_jl]

Rex Dart, on Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:47 AM, said:

wood_jl, on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:59 PM, said:

Since they're playing in 1080p and the textures do look pretty awesome, what more is there? "My new photo-reality looks better than my old photo-reality" or something like that? I suppose they might be able to squeeze in a little better shading/textures, but you're going to have to look awfully hard for it, and most people won't know it. So spending hundreds of $$$ for something that really won't look noticeably better??

1) They don't have to look 10x better to play 10x better
2) Screw photoreality; I want super-drug-o-vision. I want wild visuals that can't exist in reality. And THAT can keep improving.

I understand, but I wasn't aware of any gameplay deficiencies with the current machine, such that 10x better gameplay is even possible?

Aren't the current machines pretty capable of "super-drug-o-vision?" I thought that was achieved as far back as Tempest 2000, and stuff like Space Giraffe is about as drugged-out far-from-reality as I can stand. You want more?

[Rex Dart]

wood_jl, on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:19 PM, said:

Rex Dart, on Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:47 AM, said:

1) They don't have to look 10x better to play 10x better
2) Screw photoreality; I want super-drug-o-vision. I want wild visuals that can't exist in reality. And THAT can keep improving.

I understand, but I wasn't aware of any gameplay deficiencies with the current machine, such that 10x better gameplay is even possible?

Aren't the current machines pretty capable of "super-drug-o-vision?" I thought that was achieved as far back as Tempest 2000, and stuff like Space Giraffe is about as drugged-out far-from-reality as I can stand. You want more?

1) You'll see in 15 years. I bet you nobody imagined Vice City in the NES days, either.
2) Hell yes I want more. I want Katamari times Madworld to the power of El Shaddai.

[moycon]

wood_jl, on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:19 PM, said:

You want more?

I'm perfectly happy where we are at right now. Spending $100's to upgrade to the latest and greatest is something I will do when the time comes. I'd prefer it didn't happen any time soon. I suspect most systems get killed off way before their potential has been reached. Too many people get the itch for something newer and shinier, it's funny because most old school gamers will tell you that graphics don't matter, but that's all an upgrade will do, give us better graphics. The games won't get longer, the game play will remain the same. Everything will look cleaner, load times will go down, games will probably run smoother. I'm all for it, but I'd just as soon it happen every decade, not every 5 years.

[xg4bx]

Metal Jesus, on Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:45 AM, said:

Am I the only person who feels that an XBLA game is really just a rental? I bought the excellent game Shadow Complex for $15 and loved it to death, but I don't actually consider it part of my permanent collection..because I don't have a physical box for it! I have yet to pay $15 for any other game on the X360.

However, on my iPad and iPhone, I download several $1~$3 games all the time, because the price is right for something I consider temporary.

i concur. xbla games just don't feel like "real" games to me because i have no proof of ownership other than filled space on a hdd.

[xg4bx]

HatefulGravey, on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:40 AM, said:

If its a re-release game I don't want to spend $10 on it. I don't mind $15 for a great game though. Shadow Complex was great, and I know I have more then $15 in Trails HD by now to name a few. I would love to have these games on a disc for the future but I really can't. Well, you can get Trails but I don't think it had the expansions that add so much to it.

I too think of it as a rental, because its about that reliable. Its a long term rental but a rental none-the-less.

Part of this is you spend money to buy the game, then you spend time downloading it, and then you use HDD to store the game. Sometimes the game is just too large for me to download. I don't like to leave my systems on and downloading while I'm out of the house because I don't like having them on for no reason for the 3 hours after the download and before I get home from work. Often if I'm in the mood to play a game I think about XBLA stuff I have heard of, then I check the game and find that its 1.7gigs and the download time will be a while and just do something else. When they get faster internet speeds to me I'll be a little more ok with this I guess.

Game expansions bother me more then DLC games in total. Because in 10 years I might want to play Fallout 3 again, and I'll remember a time that I didn't have to stop short of winning the game to keep playing and the level cap being 30 but I wont have access to that part. At least with Shadow Complex I can just remember how great the game was but I wont have half of the game to taunt me.

thats why i haven't downloaded any of the fallout dlc. i'll wait for the inevitable new vegas dlc discs like i did with fallout 3. or a goty edition that has everything.

[Mendon]

xg4bx, on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:50 AM, said:

thats why i haven't downloaded any of the fallout dlc. i'll wait for the inevitable new vegas dlc discs like i did with fallout 3. or a goty edition that has everything.

Then you should hope that Fallout 3 doesn't go the way of Borderlands, in that its GoTY Edition had just the original game on disk and included a code to download the expansions.

Downloadable games and expansions are the way the companies are going, sooner rather than later. It means less costs (no cases, manuals, shipping, etc) for the company and less control of product use for the consumer.

The world is changing, in many ways, and I ain't too happy about it.


Mendon

[JamesD]

There are too many good discount games under $20 where I OWN the disk for me to waste money on a download that expensive.

[Mendon]

I don't know.... I guess because I'm an old fart that grew up with the launch of the Atari 800 and Atari 1040ST, that I view these downloads as more than just "rentals" or not feeling like they aren't a "real game".

I was an active member and 5 year vice-president of our local Atari User Group, both 8bit and ST. And one of the BEST things for me during this era was Shareware. The concept, for those that might be unaware, was that authors released a piece of software... game, utility, comm program, word processor, etc..... which would be a demo, in that some of the features were crippled. You usually obtained the program from either a BBS or perhaps on the "Disk of the Month" that most AUG's provided. You then tried the program out for as long as you liked and if you enjoyed the program, you sent the author a donation or a fee. In return, you received a "key" to unlock the full program. (NOTE: our AUG made deals with various authors to sell the full program and we would send them their fee each month for any sales we did).

Or on many occasions, the author would just release the full program and trusted that if you enjoyed/used the program that you would send the donation or fee.

For myself, a lot of the programs I used on my ST were Shareware and I paid for every program I used. And just because I never received a disk or manual with these programs, I never considered them to be "rentals" or not "real programs". They helped me with my tasks, they provided hours and hours of entertainment, and they were worth the money I paid.


So by posting all of the above, I guess I'm trying to explain why I have difficulty in understanding why games like Wizardry or PixelJunk Monsters or Defense Grid or any one of the hundreds of other games that are available for downloading are considered as rentals or not real games or too expensive.

Its my upbringing!


Mendon

[HammR25]

Mendon, on Wed Aug 3, 2011 11:15 AM, said:

Or on many occasions, the author would just release the full program and trusted that if you enjoyed/used the program that you would send the donation or fee.

Those were usually classified as nagware because you'd get the full program but every time you opened it they would beg you for money.

[Austin]

Mendon, on Wed Aug 3, 2011 11:15 AM, said:

So by posting all of the above, I guess I'm trying to explain why I have difficulty in understanding why games like Wizardry or PixelJunk Monsters or Defense Grid or any one of the hundreds of other games that are available for downloading are considered as rentals or not real games or too expensive.

The biggest difference is that you could back up your software that you got twenty years ago. That's something we can't do on modern consoles (at least, we are not allowed), and even a lot of Steam applications on the PC require the shell to load before running the game (meaning that if that service ever bites the dust, you won't be able to backup your purchases). This is why I don't mind GOG so much and have a nice collection of stuff from them. It's more like the old days where what you buy is technically yours, you can install it on whatever you want, and back it up to as many forms of media as you want.

[Rex Dart]

HammR25, on Wed Aug 3, 2011 12:10 PM, said:

Mendon, on Wed Aug 3, 2011 11:15 AM, said:

Or on many occasions, the author would just release the full program and trusted that if you enjoyed/used the program that you would send the donation or fee.

Those were usually classified as nagware because you'd get the full program but every time you opened it they would beg you for money.

Sometimes. Other times they just wanted a postcard & didn't bug you about it.

[HatefulGravey]

Rex Dart, on Thu Aug 4, 2011 3:55 PM, said:

Sometimes. Other times they just wanted a postcard & didn't bug you about it.

ADOM is a great rougelike game still being supported and its postcard-ware. You can make a cash donation if you like, but the postcard thing is still a big deal to the owner.

BTW, if you haven't already you should try ADOM. Its hard as hell and rougelike, so there are challenges there, but man its good!

[Video]

I simply can't understand the excessive price of DL games. What's worse is the obscene prices of retail over live games. I was looking at some games like the old "halos" and a few randome other games, and seriously, $20-$40 a game? Seriously? Are they really thinking people are that god damned stupid? I guess some people are but still. Why pay high prices for what I can go to Game.stop or wherever the hell else and get said game for $5 or less?

That's the other thing. There are to many great games on physical media for $10 or less (and way more if I dare to step up to the $15+ mark) Why would I pay more....for less?

Maybe I do think backwards. But honestly, I don't see the value. Even if it's a game I really enjoy, I won't pay over $10 if it's not on physical media.