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Kjmann's Atari Pirates cartridges...


Sikor

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M.U.L.E. belongs to EA probably wether they take care or not...

 

Ofcourse.

 

There are two sides on the medal.

One is the copyright infringement

The other side is the threshold value, causing the copyright owner to get active.

 

Me personally.......copyright on retro software should only be enforceable if I can purchase it from the copyright owner.

 

But we were talking legalities....and loser pays all court costs ;)

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Bashing or legitimate complaint?

 

You probably did not get my point. It's ok for the topic starter to start this topic, but like flies are attracted to shit, this kind of threads always do get the attention of the 'wrong' people. And before we know there is another thread filled up with dirt.

 

No you don't "cancel" forum accounts, simply stay away and do not return if you have issues with the board.

 

Ehm... who is dictating what here?

 

You could also simply ignore certain posts and even block users you have an issue with, instead of attempting to dictate what can and cannot be posted here.

 

I see it different. There is not a very active moderating here on AtariAge. And I think that is a good thing. Very strict moderated forums are not my favorite. But this forum has been fun for a long time, but the last months even in interested threads, there are a certain amount of real j*rks who are coming to spoil the fun.

 

But I have seen enough, and have enough of it.

 

I agree with you, I should not visit the forum anymore. So this is the last time I was here.

 

Goodbye.

M.

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But I see a moral difference here: Dan(i) Bunten sadly is dead, and M.U.L.E. is Abandonware (i.e. it is not commercially profitable any more for Electronic Arts and hasn't been for a very long time), so I can't see a victim here.

Thorsten

 

No, No, No..... A thousand times, NO!

Repeat after me "There is no such thing as abandonware".

 

M.U.L.E is copyrighted, and will continue to be be long after we are dead. Just because the owner hasn't done anything with it recently doesn't mean it is 'abandoned'.

Yes it is crappy, yes it is stupid, and yes, it is the law.

The copyright owner could wake up tomorrow and sue you into oblivion.

 

Stop perpetuating the abandonware BS.

 

Just an FYI regarding M.U.L.E which I thought was interesting.

 

Per Halcyon Days interview with Danielle Berry. Thanks Devwebcl.

 

http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/BOOK/BERRY.HTM

 

 

Rumors of an updated M.U.L.E. resurface every so often. What's your relationship with the game been like over the years?

 

That game requires a very special platform to be re-released. At minimum it needs a way for four players to interact simultaneously. Not since the Atari 800 has a mainstream platform included that capability without special adapters. I'm working with Mpath Interactive right now to see what we can do to bring an Internet version to market. It'll require some significant design changes since people won't actually be sitting side-by-side on the net. Also it won't be called "M.U.L.E." since in perfect irony, even though the rights to the game and the design have reverted to me, EA owns the name--the name they didn't want us to use!

Edited by TwiliteZoner
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Quad OTOH was written by an active member of the Atari community, and although it is available for free, one should feel morally obliged to ask Nosty for his OK and/or offer him a share of the profits made on cartridges with his content (same goes for kjmann's Yoomp!, etc. carts - BTW: GR8 should really produce a second batch of the original cart).

I don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, but that statement seems to characterise common sense and good manners to me. If (when) I release free software intended for cartridge and ever discover it's being sold as a retail package without my prior consent, problems will ensue.

 

Agreed!! + 1 million

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But I see a moral difference here: Dan(i) Bunten sadly is dead, and M.U.L.E. is Abandonware (i.e. it is not commercially profitable any more for Electronic Arts and hasn't been for a very long time), so I can't see a victim here.

Thorsten

 

No, No, No..... A thousand times, NO!

Repeat after me "There is no such thing as abandonware".

 

M.U.L.E is copyrighted, and will continue to be be long after we are dead. Just because the owner hasn't done anything with it recently doesn't mean it is 'abandoned'.

Yes it is crappy, yes it is stupid, and yes, it is the law.

The copyright owner could wake up tomorrow and sue you into oblivion.

 

Stop perpetuating the abandonware BS.

 

 

How about a nice acronym for software least likely to get you sued? The concept is that old stuff doesn't make money, so you probably won't get caught because it costs more to take it to court than they could dream of getting if they won. I'm no expert, but I think at least on books, a copyright runs out after something like 30 years. They have to renew it. If you show up to defend a speeding ticket, and say "everyone else was speeding" they generally still make you pay the fine. Abandonware = wishful thinking. Note, I'm not advocating piracy here.

 

AX

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I'm no expert, but I think at least on books, a copyright runs out after something like 30 years.

 

Copyright expires 70 years after the death of the author. It's unlikely any of us will live to see anything produced today enter the public domain.

 

As for "abandonware" it's an ethical term, not a legal term. Useful for those of us who care more about right and wrong than legal and illegal. It would be wrong to let old works vanish, simply because the legal owner of the copyright cannot be found, or can't be bothered to preserve the work.

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I don't think it's really as much a legal issue as it is an issue of ethics. EA, most likely the owner of the copyright to MULE, hasn't done anything for the Atari 8 bit community in ages and most likely doesn't give a rats ass about it being on a cart. In fact they probably like the branding when one sees their name. The producer of QUAD is an active member of the community and is doing good things. One should show respect for him before they release a product for commercial gain.

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I don't think it's really as much a legal issue as it is an issue of ethics. EA, most likely the owner of the copyright to MULE, hasn't done anything for the Atari 8 bit community in ages and most likely doesn't give a rats ass about it being on a cart. In fact they probably like the branding when one sees their name. The producer of QUAD is an active member of the community and is doing good things. One should show respect for him before they release a product for commercial gain.

I think you're right. It's easy to get bogged down in the specifics and the details of each individual title and considerations of the age of the product, active development, whether the author's still around, whether the product was originally commerical, etc, etc. But surely one has to use two things: common sense and courtesy. To my mind, it would be unthinkable to take a freshly released title, stick it on a Maxflash cart, and proceed to sell it, without first consulting the author. If the software's a few years old and not in active development, on the other hand, you find out how to contact the author, and ask him would they mind... etc, etc. With much older "abandonware", it's still prudent to consult where possible. Uploading freeware and "abandonware" together on a webpage for download is one thing (although I still prefer my software to be linked instead of externally hosted unless asked first, just out of politeness), but quite another to set up shop and start selling it. There's at least an implication of financial gain even if there isn't any actual financial gain. I might not have a problem with this, as long as I was asked first.

 

This is a general comment - not any indictment on Atari Sales and Service. I just think common sense and thoughtfulness go a long way, legal issues aside (since we've already seen that if you take the legal issue to its logical conclusion, we might as well stop porting old commercial titles).

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All hail copyright owners, and let's all reformat our hard drives in unison tonight, to rid ourselves of the hag of piracy and copyright infringement, prove a point, and behold that we "walk the walk as well as talk the talk." UH, on second thought, you guys go ahead, and tell me what the experience is like. I'll enjoy your liberation, vicariously. Somehow, I have a feeling that I won't be the only one sitting this one out, and I strongly suspect that if we (on the forum) could remotely examine the drives of some of our most ardent copyright defenders here, might we find a bit of unannounced "inappropriateness?" No, I'm sure they'd be perfectly clean, beyond a reasonable doubt, in EVERY SINGLE WAY and with no gray areas, right? :ponder: :ponder: :ponder: :ponder:

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would you like one of the backup's of my machine, to peruse at your leisure?

 

make sure you can read a EXT4 filesystem ;')

 

(and ignore the nekkid pics of my wife! )

 

sloopy.

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would you like one of the backup's of my machine, to peruse at your leisure?

Hi Sloopy. No, I want the entire machine! (It's probably superior to this thing)

 

make sure you can read a EXT4 filesystem ;')

See earlier request, to send entire machine, so not a problem. Otherwise, maybe I can use Ubungfoo.

 

(and ignore the nekkid pics of my wife! )

Shirley, you can't be serious?

 

dont-call-me-shirley.jpg

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I see it different. There is not a very active moderating here on AtariAge. And I think that is a good thing. Very strict moderated forums are not my favorite. But this forum has been fun for a long time, but the last months even in interested threads, there are a certain amount of real j*rks who are coming to spoil the fun.

 

But I have seen enough, and have enough of it.

 

I agree with you, I should not visit the forum anymore. So this is the last time I was here.

 

Goodbye.

M.

 

Oh no wait please come back! :P :roll:

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All hail copyright owners, and let's all reformat our hard drives in unison tonight, to rid ourselves of the hag of piracy and copyright infringement, prove a point, and behold that we "walk the walk as well as talk the talk." UH, on second thought, you guys go ahead, and tell me what the experience is like. I'll enjoy your liberation, vicariously. Somehow, I have a feeling that I won't be the only one sitting this one out, and I strongly suspect that if we (on the forum) could remotely examine the drives of some of our most ardent copyright defenders here, might we find a bit of unannounced "inappropriateness?" No, I'm sure they'd be perfectly clean, beyond a reasonable doubt, in EVERY SINGLE WAY and with no gray areas, right? :ponder: :ponder: :ponder: :ponder:

 

Now now, I am not defending the copyright laws... In general I find the current state of copyright appalling, and don't even get me started on software patents....

 

That said... far too many people think that just because something is old, or no longer sold commercially, that copyright doesn't apply. It's a dangerous fallacy that could potentially land someone in serious legal trouble. Especially if a lawyer thinks there's enough money to be made and they can find the right court venue. I point you towards some of the judgements issued by courts for people who have downloaded a few mp3s as evidence.

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would you like one of the backup's of my machine, to peruse at your leisure?

Hi Sloopy. No, I want the entire machine! (It's probably superior to this thing)

 

make sure you can read a EXT4 filesystem ;')

See earlier request, to send entire machine, so not a problem. Otherwise, maybe I can use Ubungfoo.

 

(and ignore the nekkid pics of my wife! )

Shirley, you can't be serious?

 

dont-call-me-shirley.jpg

 

its just a P4ht... not even a dual core...

 

and it runs Ubuntu...

 

my name isnt Shirley, and dont call me serious.

 

sloopy.

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I think the main point which is sorely being missed here, is that Sal was selling something Nosty didn't approve of. Nosty asked SAL to remove it, and he did. The issue was between those two, and it has been resolved. There isn't much more to say.

 

I wish there was as much coding going on here as there is arguing :)

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All hail copyright owners, and let's all reformat our hard drives in unison tonight, to rid ourselves of the hag of piracy and copyright infringement, prove a point, and behold that we "walk the walk as well as talk the talk." UH, on second thought, you guys go ahead, and tell me what the experience is like. I'll enjoy your liberation, vicariously. Somehow, I have a feeling that I won't be the only one sitting this one out, and I strongly suspect that if we (on the forum) could remotely examine the drives of some of our most ardent copyright defenders here, might we find a bit of unannounced "inappropriateness?" No, I'm sure they'd be perfectly clean, beyond a reasonable doubt, in EVERY SINGLE WAY and with no gray areas, right? :ponder: :ponder: :ponder: :ponder:

That reminds me...

 

Back when there were local Atari user groups, it always seemed like the leaders of said groups were the most outspoken defenders of copyright and at the same time, the guys with the biggest pirate library. One club prez I knew ran a bbs with a giant l33t section if you had access. Otherwise, it was just a tame little chat site with a few PD utilities. So, even the good guys were the bad guys.

 

A buddy of mine used to trade warez with a guy from his local club until the day he (the guy) found out my friend had copied something he had written. After that they didn't get along.

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All hail copyright owners, and let's all reformat our hard drives in unison tonight, to rid ourselves of the hag of piracy and copyright infringement, prove a point, and behold that we "walk the walk as well as talk the talk." UH, on second thought, you guys go ahead, and tell me what the experience is like. I'll enjoy your liberation, vicariously. Somehow, I have a feeling that I won't be the only one sitting this one out, and I strongly suspect that if we (on the forum) could remotely examine the drives of some of our most ardent copyright defenders here, might we find a bit of unannounced "inappropriateness?" No, I'm sure they'd be perfectly clean, beyond a reasonable doubt, in EVERY SINGLE WAY and with no gray areas, right? :ponder: :ponder: :ponder: :ponder:

That reminds me...

 

Back when there were local Atari user groups, it always seemed like the leaders of said groups were the most outspoken defenders of copyright and at the same time, the guys with the biggest pirate library. One club prez I knew ran a bbs with a giant l33t section if you had access. Otherwise, it was just a tame little chat site with a few PD utilities. So, even the good guys were the bad guys.

 

A buddy of mine used to trade warez with a guy from his local club until the day he (the guy) found out my friend had copied something he had written. After that they didn't get along.

 

I actually came across a church BBS system that had pirated PC software on it. That's what I think of when these conversations pop up.

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Looks like a nice game (going by the screenshot on the translated page, some polish does seem to show up in the text though...or doesn't google understand polish slang)

 

Any more gems like this one Nosty, please don't stop supporting the lovely A8 (there are pirates on the c64, speccy, amstrad etc etc as well you know)

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