72 replies to this topic

[DJT]

In my humble opinion, as far as retro games go, nothing beats the old ASCII rogue. With it's promise of endless treasure and never-the-same-game-twice appeal, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to port a very very light version of this game to the 2600?

I realize the limitations of the system, but it just seems like such a basic game with lasting replay, is there a roguelike game out there for the 2600?

[SeaGtGruff]

DJT, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:35 PM, said:

In my humble opinion, as far as retro games go, nothing beats the old ASCII rogue. With it's promise of endless treasure and never-the-same-game-twice appeal, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to port a very very light version of this game to the 2600?

I realize the limitations of the system, but it just seems like such a basic game with lasting replay, is there a roguelike game out there for the 2600?

I'd thought about trying to make one, but I haven't gotten busy yet. Maybe I'll get busy, because I'd love to play it, too.

Michael

[Nateo]

The homebrew Dungeon is very rogue-like, IMHO.

[DJT]

I saw Dungeon - I def think I'd like to get my hands on that.

Although the maps aren't random, there's probably enough to give me my rogue fix until someone smarter than me figures out a way to convert the rogue code into 2600 language.

[DJT]

SeaGtGruff, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:44 PM, said:

DJT, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:35 PM, said:

In my humble opinion, as far as retro games go, nothing beats the old ASCII rogue. With it's promise of endless treasure and never-the-same-game-twice appeal, I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to port a very very light version of this game to the 2600?

I realize the limitations of the system, but it just seems like such a basic game with lasting replay, is there a roguelike game out there for the 2600?

I'd thought about trying to make one, but I haven't gotten busy yet. Maybe I'll get busy, because I'd love to play it, too.

Michael

I would DEFINITELY pay money for that. Only thing is that you wouldn't have inventory. unless you use the keypad and an overlay (Ooooooooh getting fancy...)

It'd be a pretty ambitious feat, but it could truly be an EPIC dungeon crawling feat on the 2600!

[DemonoidTentacle]

To get past the one button thing, instead of using a keyboard and pressing a key to make a command, you could just press the button and bring up a whole list of commands.

[DJT]

DemonoidTentacle, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:22 PM, said:

To get past the one button thing, instead of using a keyboard and pressing a key to make a command, you could just press the button and bring up a whole list of commands.

Brilliant. Good thinking. But it could get pretty menu hairy at the point, don't you think? Shortcuts are always nice.

The other option is that it doesn't necessarily have to be as ROBUST as the original. There's some fat you could trim. Especially in the way of items (rings, wands, food)

[rockfistus]

DJT, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:37 PM, said:

DemonoidTentacle, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:22 PM, said:

To get past the one button thing, instead of using a keyboard and pressing a key to make a command, you could just press the button and bring up a whole list of commands.

Brilliant. Good thinking. But it could get pretty menu hairy at the point, don't you think? Shortcuts are always nice.

The other option is that it doesn't necessarily have to be as ROBUST as the original. There's some fat you could trim. Especially in the way of items (rings, wands, food)

It's going to have to be simplified anyway, so I think 8 commands should be enough, make it so you hold the fire button and press a direction for each command. ;]

[DJT]

Yeah that's cool too. I like a secondary pad idea like with star raiders. The pad would be like your virtual inventory. Each button activates something from your inventory slot. Let the fire button to activate your inventory. Once that's called up, a button on the keypad will activate whatever is in that slot. A potion, a scroll, or a missile weapon.

Hell you could knock a row of buttons on the keypad out and have those buttons mapped to manipulate your inventory.

The game is really about how much gold can you amass. Everything else you loot is meant to try to keep you alive longer. Potions, scrolls, and better equipment is really all that's necessary

[DemonoidTentacle]

I second the idea for using the keypad in port #2, and some serious fat needs to be trimmed. I don't think an "eat" command would be needed, mainly because I hate having to feed my character.

[DJT]

DemonoidTentacle, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:46 AM, said:

I second the idea for using the keypad in port #2, and some serious fat needs to be trimmed. I don't think an "eat" command would be needed, mainly because I hate having to feed my character.

yeah...and i mean it's an adventure alone just trying to find food to stay alive.

I also say scrap the idea of the field of vision. Make it easy. go thru a tunnel, find a room, kill the monsters (if any) collect the loot (if any), find the stairs.

Also the whole "search" function can be a bit annoying - scrap it

Booby traps - scrap

nice and simple straight ahead dungeon crawler. Get the amulet and try to get out alive.

I think the one of the real challenges is going to be ASCII graphics. I don't think you can put as many text characters on the screen as you can on a computer screen. It could end up looking like Stellar Track

[DemonoidTentacle]

I imagine that another problem would be randomly generated dungeons, and programming them so that they are of a design that can be completed.

Statistics could also be scrapped to the essentials, Strength, Hit Points, Intelligence, and Agility is all that is needed.

As much as I love it, command Kick could be scrapped, same as alot of Tool functions.

[DJT]

DemonoidTentacle, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:08 AM, said:

I imagine that another problem would be randomly generated dungeons, and programming them so that they are of a design that can be completed.

Statistics could also be scrapped to the essentials, Strength, Hit Points, Intelligence, and Agility is all that is needed.

As much as I love it, command Kick could be scrapped, same as alot of Tool functions.

Do you really need intelligence? The stats are for better monster killing. So strength for damage, and agility for hits and misses. Pretty simple.

[Nateo]

I would also like to say that I do have a fondness for the Star Raiders controller (Video Touch Pad, right?), and I think it would work beautifully in the context of a Rogue-like.

[DJT]

Nateo, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:44 AM, said:

I would also like to say that I do have a fondness for the Star Raiders controller (Video Touch Pad, right?), and I think it would work beautifully in the context of a Rogue-like.

I'm really envisioning the touch pad like a "backpack" for your inventory. save 3 buttons at the top for USE, DROP, THROW the remaining 9 buttons correspond to a slot in your backpack for items. the "USE" function will activate items (ie read a scroll, quaff a potion, equip a weapon or armor. Your character can have 3 active items: A melee weapon, armor, and a one time use ranged weapon.

The variety of items is what makes rogue rogue. There's going to be limitations on that which could limit the game further.

I'm really talking out of my ass here. I have no clue about assembly - nor do i have the mental capacity to learn. I sell olive oil for a living...

[Nateo]

DJT, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:41 AM, said:

I'm really talking out of my ass here. I have no clue about assembly - nor do i have the mental capacity to learn. I sell olive oil for a living...

Eh, it's still fun to shoot the blank about it and brainstorm.

[DJT]

Nateo, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:27 AM, said:

DJT, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:41 AM, said:

I'm really talking out of my ass here. I have no clue about assembly - nor do i have the mental capacity to learn. I sell olive oil for a living...

Eh, it's still fun to shoot the blank about it and brainstorm.

ha... i know. Done it all my life with video games. That's why I love the old systems they let you imagine more with less. All these new systems are just so detailed, you don't even have to use your imagination to play them. I'm guilty of playing xbox360...but lately it's become a bit of a bother to re-learn the controls of a game if i haven't played them in a while.

With my atari, it's like an innate physical ability to grip the controller and blast away.

[bomberpunk]

this isn't what you're looking for (it's not for Atari), but it IS an ASCII dungeon crawler i'm currently working on: MicroDungeon

[DJT]

very cool!!! Now get that on the 2600!!

[Legend]

A roguelike on 2600 would be awesome even though it would have to be dumbed down. Although using the keypad would make it less accessible. I would rather go for using two joysticks like raiders of the lost ark.

The first joystick would be used for movement and firing ranged weapons/zapping wands.
The second joystick would be used for inventory. Using the 4 directions to choose between whether you are using melee, ranged, wand, or magic. The fire button on the first joystick would activate/fire this.
Pressing the fire button on the second joystick would bring up the inventory.
All items would be used directly from the inventory by pressing the fire button again.

Some items could even be straight instant use when you pick the up like health, magic, and possibly food. I think food would most likely have to be left out though.

Of course some items would have to be dumbed down and or cut out. Scrolls could still be used. Potions may be able to be eliminated since scrolls can basically do the same things. Or maybe they can stay. Just less of each type. Not sure if they will be able to be randomized in effect though. Same with weapons and armors. Less monster types too.

I would prefer to keep the traps kept in the game. They are a big part of it.

Cut out some of the stats maybe though. Just health. Maybe magic/mana to fuel the wands instead of the wands having set charges. Maybe even have to cut out all of the leveling up.

Cut out diagonal directions.

One thing I would like to see would be to have a tombstone for the ending score screen and have the tombstone be fancier depending on how much gold you found/points earned. I kinda doubt this would be possible on 3600, but I think it would be really cool in any roguelike really. The only one I've ever seen do it was Fatal Labyrinth for the genesis.

Anyways, I think that is the most likely way to see a feasible roguelike on 2600. Not a full on rogue port, but a roguelike similar to the original with no classes, races, or magic system. Definitely needs the random dungeons though. Only one way. Straight down. Probably much few levels too. Like 10.

Edited by Legend, Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:22 PM.

[Nateo]

I'm sure you could keep some form of dumbed-down level up system. I don't think it would be too hard to keep up with a health variable, a magic variable (?), and a generic strength variable.

The problem with a joystick for inventory is that it is very abstract. Unlike a the touchpad where everything can be easily labeled without having to remember which direction on the second controller does what. I've actually never liked Raiders of the Lost Ark because of it's obtuse inventory system. However, I don't see why you couldn't incorporate both control schemes in the game and let the player decide. Personally, I'd love to just be able to use that dang touchpad for something other than Star Raiders.

[DJT]

Yeah .. It's quicker to hit a dedicated button tovinstant activate a command. As opposed to navigating a menu. Plus a funky overlay could just add more fun flavor to the whole epic rogue 2600 package

[Legend]

My main reason behind suggesting two joysticks instead of the keypad is because most players are more likely to have two joysticks as opposed to a keypad. This would make the game more accessible to more players.

Plus, in my opinion, many roguelikes like the original have unnecessary commands. It would be much simpler to just have one generic "use" command instead of several for things like reading scrolls, drinking potions, zapping wands, etc. Also things like armor and weapons could only use one command instead of two. I think it would be much simpler to just have a "use" command that can be issued in the inventory screen.

[DJT]

Okay, so are we all going to pool some money together to hire a freelancer to do this or what

[DemonoidTentacle]

DJT, on Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:23 AM, said:

Okay, so are we all going to pool some money together to hire a freelancer to do this or what

Or, now here's an idea... We could learn.