63 replies to this topic

[Sargon]

Quote

Jaguar

Not even naming a console after a vicious animal could save it when it was obsolete coming out of the gate, had a whole two games that didn't suck, was stuck with an ad campaign centered entirely around insulting the intelligence of prospective buyers, and was graced with a controller which resembled half of a waffle iron mated with an 80s cellphone. Also, it probably didn't help that its CD add-on made the thing resemble nothing so much as a tiny black toilet. Anyone looking to make the point that a console's quality is inversely proportional to the awesomeness of its name need look no further than the Jag. It actually enjoyed some success later in life when the molds for its casing were used to make housings for dental cameras. No, really. That happened.

http://www.1up.com/f...seless-consoles

[toptenmaterial]

Worst in terms of what? Pretty complicated subject.

Atari had piss poor market performance with the Jag. I don't know how the Lynx did, but I know that the Jack Tremiel years were a return to profitability for Atari Corp. The 7800, for example, though it didn't come close to NES sales, sold pretty damn well and made some money for the company. I wonder how the Lynx did. The 5200 has a lot of merit, but had a shitty launch, shitty controllers, and was pulled during the crash. Had Atari had it's head in the right place, that system could have gone very far indeed.

[save2600]

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:04 PM, said:

Had Atari had it's head in the right place, that system could have gone very far indeed.

Absolutely.

On the subject of the 'top ten worst consoles', article is flawed right off the bat. Handhelds aren't consoles you idiots!

Gizmondo, Pippin and R-Zone too? Wow. Why even bother mentioning them? This article is goofy as shit.

My top ten "worst" consoles (no particular order) of all time would go a little something like this:

8-bit NES - sure it was successful, but its bland colors, tiny sprites and cheesy sound chip (where every game sounds alike) get old real quick
APF/RCA Channel F/Studio 2 - blocky graphics and shit controllers
Odyssey 2 - same as above
That Radio Shack Interactive CD thing - dumb, dumb, dumb Rat Shack!
CDi - (I love the thing, but recognize it for what it is)
Bally Astrocade (cool system, but damn - where are all the quality arcade games it should have had?)
Atari 5200 (more or less a8 rehash and the leap that the 7800 was should have been released earlier instead)
Amiga CDTV (great platform, but there's that rehash thing again)
Amiga CD32 (ditto)
Atari XEGS - another one for the redundancy dept. and waaaaay too old of technology to have still been in production

Yes, the Jaguar sucks, but Atari specific semantics aside, you have to consider (especially the CD attachment) how quickly it was ditched soon after it left the gate. Same with CD32. Commodore produced a bunch of 'em and then decided to just throw in the towel. That never bodes well for continued software development, which has always boggled my mind actually. Who cares if the parent company of the hardware in question is still alive or not. The machine still needs software and something to do on it. Thousands and thousands of units are in peoples homes. The fact sooooooo many software houses are quick to ditch platforms really pisses me off. Should I stop putting gas in my Saturn just because they are no longer around? Cease purchasing discs for play in my discontinued universal player? Stop buying food because my fridge is obsolete? Pffft.

TG-16 library in America and the Supergrafx in Japan are another couple of great examples of this mindset. Supergrafx especially!! I remember closely following the TG-16 scene since first purchasing one upon its rollout. I'm aware of the strange relationship between the Japanese and American consumer divisions. What was and was not "allowed" to be ported for us is mind blowing. ALL Hudson Soft had to do was simply translate key titles from Japan for us here, but noooooooo.

[GKC]

And this whole time I really thought I had picked a toilet for my avatar. No idea it was a Jag/JagCD..........

[toptenmaterial]

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:26 PM, said:

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:04 PM, said:

Had Atari had it's head in the right place, that system could have gone very far indeed.

8-bit NES - sure it was successful, but its bland colors, tiny sprites and cheesy sound chip (where every game sounds alike) get old real quick

Save2600, I know it's probably pointless to argue as we are two old geeks set in our ways, but I must disagree with you about my dear NES! The sound was limited, but they really know how to "make the beast sing". NES games had some great tunes, and made music an essential part of the game in a way that I've rarely seen with Atari (though there are exceptions, like Gyruss). But you've gotta give it up for the music on games like Contra, Castlevania, TMNT, Metroid.....

[wood_jl]

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:26 PM, said:

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:04 PM, said:

Had Atari had it's head in the right place, that system could have gone very far indeed.

8-bit NES - sure it was successful, but its bland colors, tiny sprites and cheesy sound chip (where every game sounds alike) get old real quick

Save2600, I know it's probably pointless to argue as we are two old geeks set in our ways, but I must disagree with you about my dear NES! The sound was limited, but they really know how to "make the beast sing". NES games had some great tunes, and made music an essential part of the game in a way that I've rarely seen with Atari (though there are exceptions, like Gyruss). But you've gotta give it up for the music on games like Contra, Castlevania, TMNT, Metroid.....

I agree. I know it's popular to love the Jaguar and hate the NES around here, but the NES sound was ok for its time, and the colors don't look "bland" to me. The sprites were tiny, relative to what? Atari stuff? Commdore 64? This system wasn't gimmicked out on some bullshit, and then no good games. This thing had an uphill battle, and proved its mettle as it put gaming back on peoples' agendas because it was fun, and many popular games looked and played great. It was only later in the industry that mediocre machines were gimmicked-up with very few good games and advertising slogans, while machines with less claims, and more great games trounced. The NES had its work cut out for it, and was popular because there were great, innovative games not available at home, previously. This makes me want to play "Mike Tyson's Punch Out."

[save2600]

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

But you've gotta give it up for the music on games like Contra, Castlevania, TMNT, Metroid.....

Oh, for sure! Final Fantasy, Tetris and Zelda are way up there too.

It's hard to communicate something so subjective without offending or someone scratching their head I guess, but outside of a handful of really great titles, I was never too impressed with the NES. I'm talking mostly of the hardware here, not even all the forgettable never ending shitstream of titles that flooded the market for years and years. Overall, I just feel the hardware has a certain "generic" quality to it somehow. Don't feel that way about the Master System at all. Too bad the SMS platform wasn't more popular and had some of the NES's library. Not totally hatin' on the NES though, it just happens to be one of *my* least favorite consoles is all. Definitely enjoyed the top notch titles throughout the 80's and some of the 90's, just wouldn't bother playing much of, or anything on one today or the last 20 years come to think of it. I can't say that about any of the systems in my sig.

[toptenmaterial]

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:18 PM, said:

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:49 PM, said:

But you've gotta give it up for the music on games like Contra, Castlevania, TMNT, Metroid.....

Oh, for sure! Final Fantasy, Tetris and Zelda are way up there too.

It's hard to communicate something so subjective without offending or someone scratching their head I guess, but outside of a handful of really great titles, I was never too impressed with the NES. Overall, I just feel it has a certain "generic" quality to it somehow. Not totally hatin', and I definitely enjoyed the top notch titles throughout the 80's and some of the 90's, just wouldn't bother playing much of or anything on one today or the last 20 years is all. I can't say that about any of the systems in my sig.

Dude I totally know. Sometimes people get SOOO pissed, but it's just our personal recollections. It was my first system as an 8 year old boy so they got me young! Nintendo indocturnated the youth in a way that no subversive conspiracy ever could!

Maybe you feel it's generic because it was such a monsterous behemoth in the 80s and Atari was an underdog.

Edited by toptenmaterial, Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:24 PM.

[save2600]

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:24 PM, said:

Maybe you feel it's generic because it was such a monsterous behemoth in the 80s and Atari was an underdog.

Really, it all comes down to the actual hardware for me. No doubt there are some kick ass games on the system though. Them aside, when I think of the NES, I think of blinking power lights, people accidentally spitting in their cartridges trying to get them to work for a day, unnecessarily oversized cartridge shells, flickery sprites and that certain familiar upper bass note that plagues so many games.

What's funny is that I traded my NES (original Gyromite set bought at Highland Superstores) for a C64 and a 1541 drive back in the mid 80's. Totally fell in love with Ghouls n Ghosts. Or was it Ghosts and Goblins? lol Bought an NES a couple of years after though and experienced all the greatness that was to be the second time around. Got bored soon after and went back to gaming on computers, the 2600 and next gen systems such as the TG-16 and Genny.

[toptenmaterial]

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:26 PM, said:

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:04 PM, said:

Had Atari had it's head in the right place, that system could have gone very far indeed.

Atari XEGS - another one for the redundancy dept. and waaaaay too old of technology to have still been in production

Now that was an odd choice for Atari. I myself was unaware of it's existance until I joined AtariAge. I watched some commercials for it on youtube, and they featured Flight Simulator 2, and the framerate was AWEFUL. They just should have gone all in the 7800.

Edited by toptenmaterial, Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:11 PM.

[wood_jl]

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:10 PM, said:

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:26 PM, said:

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:04 PM, said:

Had Atari had it's head in the right place, that system could have gone very far indeed.

Atari XEGS - another one for the redundancy dept. and waaaaay too old of technology to have still been in production

Now that was an odd choice for Atari. I myself was unaware of it's existance until I joined AtariAge. I watched some commercials for it on youtube, and they featured Flight Simulator 2, and the framerate was AWEFUL. They just should have gone all in the 7800.

I consider it just another 8-bit Atari computer, rather than a bonafide console. Flight Simulator II was fine, 5 years earlier when it was released on Apple2/C64/Atari with all similar framerates. If considered as an Atari 8-bit computer, XEGS pretty much like other Atari 8-bit computers - great, unless you're a Commodore user. If considered a new "cutting edge console" as it was marketed, it was a disappointment. I agree, they should have gone "all out" with the 7800, but in a thread where people are bashing NES sound - WTF?? I guess if it's in your signature, it gets a pass.

Edited by wood_jl, Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:57 PM.

[toptenmaterial]

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:48 PM, said:

 toptenmaterial, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:24 PM, said:

Maybe you feel it's generic because it was such a monsterous behemoth in the 80s and Atari was an underdog.

when I think of the NES, I think of blinking power lights, people accidentally spitting in their cartridges trying to get them to work for a day

Well, I guess you got me there dude!

@Wood: I will agree with you about NES sounds. I think it was melodic and gorgeous, and the tracks defined my childhood.

Edited by toptenmaterial, Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:42 AM.

[sh3-rg]

Jaguar on yet another top ten worst consoles - meh

"It's Summer, there's nothing worth talking about game-wise - let's stir up some fanbois and make this site look active"

Next week they can have a top ten worst system fanbois & base it on the comments below that article and every forum post that links to it...

[Nuclear Pacman]

1UP is on my top ten list of worst video gamer websites.

[Vic George 2K3]

It should read "Top 10 Worst Game Systems". A console is what you put in your living room and hook up to your TV. Basically brain-dead thinking that comes with thinking "game system equals console".

[jetset]

 The Sword, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:05 AM, said:

1UP is on my top ten list of worst video gamer websites.

[save2600]

 wood_jl, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:55 PM, said:

I agree, they should have gone "all out" with the 7800, but in a thread where people are bashing NES sound - WTF?? I guess if it's in your signature, it gets a pass.

Touche!

By "all out" though, was thinking more thought should have gone into the 7800's sound chip circuitry. Instead of just TIA, Pokey (or better) built in from the get go or more carts with it built in would have been nice.

[Reaperman]

I tend to stay out of the jag forums mostly, but the article's complaints sound generally fair to me. If I had a top 10 worst list, jag would be pretty near the top too.

My notes:

• To be a 'worst' you have to be 'a something' first. A lot of consoles I consider worse than the jag were totally stillborn. Jag had more support behind it than most Atari products.
  
• 'two games' is what I play my jag for, though my two probably vary slightly from the normal 'two games' list.
  
• Many of jaguars better games had ports on more popular platforms that weren't noticably worse--they also aren't generally considered 'killer apps,' or 'top games' on the other system as they might be with jag.
  
• I'd rather not be holding a jaguar controller than holding one. Though it's probably my favorite of the 1st party Atari controllers, I still don't care for it. It's an entirely personal preference. Overlays felt outdated too.
  
• Those 'do the math' ads really annoyed me. (though ad support helps jag be enough of 'a something' to be on my personal least favorite list) Competing ads weren't much better, but I always felt that the competition had the platform to help back up their '90's attitude'

I'm still glad I have a jag though. Since everybody knew about it, it's a conversation piece, where some of the odd stillborn systems have never been heard of anywhere.

Edited by Reaperman, Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:56 AM.

[jetset]

It's kind of crap when the 5200 is on the list but not the 7800. Especially when you include poor controllers as a reason for the system being so terrible.

[doctorclu]

 save2600, on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:26 PM, said:

My top ten "worst" consoles (no particular order) of all time would go a little something like this:

8-bit NES - sure it was successful, but its bland colors, tiny sprites and cheesy sound chip (where every game sounds alike) get old real quick
APF/RCA Channel F/Studio 2 - blocky graphics and shit controllers
Odyssey 2 - same as above
That Radio Shack Interactive CD thing - dumb, dumb, dumb Rat Shack!
CDi - (I love the thing, but recognize it for what it is)
Bally Astrocade (cool system, but damn - where are all the quality arcade games it should have had?)
Atari 5200 (more or less a8 rehash and the leap that the 7800 was should have been released earlier instead)
Amiga CDTV (great platform, but there's that rehash thing again)
Amiga CD32 (ditto)
Atari XEGS - another one for the redundancy dept. and waaaaay too old of technology to have still been in production

I thought this was a good list. Being that you were bold on the NES 8 bit I will say that after 1983 I think the Atari 2600 could go on that list as well. Spent WAAAAYYY too much time on the market. Brilliant for what it was in 1977 and how it was a system twice as powerful as the original Odyssey, Fairchild Channel F or many other pong units. However, sorry, once the Colecovision and Intellivision hit the market, the 7800 should have been launching as soon as possible.

5200 might have been fine if it were able to use the Atari 8 bit computer cartridges. I remember at the time the 5200 was soo expensive. The Atari 400 was going for $150 with a $50 rebate. So imagine a stripped down cheap game system that plays all the cartridges of the Atari computer? Think of how awesome that would be. They started in the right direction taking a Atari 400, dumbnig it down, and then... oh crap.. they gave it a different cartridge slot and controller. Why?!? It would have been so easy to just strip down the exisiting 400, leave the same joysticks and cartridge port and have dozens of games already on the market.

[toptenmaterial]

 jetset, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:58 AM, said:

It's kind of crap when the 5200 is on the list but not the 7800. Especially when you include poor controllers as a reason for the system being so terrible.

Poor timing as well- though this wasn't really Atari's fault. I don't know if market share and profitabilty were considered, but the 7800 moved under 4 million consoles, which wasn't too bad. Most importantly it made money for Atari.

Though it could be argued that the timing was bad, part of me thinks that it wasn't too bad- the NES had gotten people excited again, and I would imagine that some of that excitement probably bled into the 7800's sphere of influence.

I know I'm probably gonna catch a lot of flack for this, but the issue was that it was a pre-crash console competing in a post-crash market. Look at the offerings for games. You think a kid is gonna pick Pole Position II over Super Mario Bros?

[save2600]

I hear what you're saying about gaming choices, but my perception is that Atari definitely dropped the ball when it came to timing. I think things might have been different had the 7800 been relased in '84 or a little earlier and then remained that way so it was allowed to mature. Licensing of certain games would have gone a long way too, especially if you didn't employ the talent to create original, but competitive side-scrollers such as Super Mario Bros.

XEGS should have been the system to have come out instead of the 5200. 7800 should have had more memory and better sound. Day dreaming aside, even if Atari had branded the NES, I'm sure they would have still dropped the ball when it came to in house programming talent and negotiating with 3rd party developers.

[AtariLeaf]

 jetset, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:58 AM, said:

It's kind of crap when the 5200 is on the list but not the 7800. Especially when you include poor controllers as a reason for the system being so terrible.

Yea but you can easily get replacement controllers ie the europad for a fairly affordable price. I'm not sure the replacement options for the 5200 controller are either easy to come by or affordable. Of course fixing them is an option I suppose.

[Rex Dart]

 save2600, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:43 PM, said:

...even if Atari had branded the NES, I'm sure they would have still dropped the ball when it came to in house programming talent and negotiating with 3rd party developers.

Absolutely. It'd be a Sega world.
Atari developed an odd aversion to success back then...

[Jag_Slave]

Personally, I just tune out all the folks who dont like what I like. Just easier that way.