17 replies to this topic

[TEXAS_JOE]

Is it just my computer or is anyone else having one or two minor problem's with Classic 99 release 359?

I have a problem with the White Noise generator in Basic/XB, it's not producing white noise at all unless I use -7 or -8

Sprites after sprite number 4 or so are having problems being generated properly.

That said, I've just reverted back to a previous release to get round this until it's ironed out in time.
:-) Classic99 is the best emulator ever made by anyone anywhere, and I have started to use it obsessively (much to the annoyance of my wife!!!)

[matthew180]

TEXAS_JOE, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:43 AM, said:

Sprites after sprite number 4 or so are having problems being generated properly.

What does "problems" mean? Exactly what kind of problem?

Do you realize that the 9918A (the video chip in the 99/4A) can *not* draw more than 4 sprites at a time on a single horizontal row? So, if you are trying to put 5 or more sprites close enough to one another that some of their horizontal lines overlap, the higher order sprites will not be drawn.

[TEXAS_JOE]

matthew180, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:09 AM, said:

TEXAS_JOE, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:43 AM, said:

Sprites after sprite number 4 or so are having problems being generated properly.

What does "problems" mean? Exactly what kind of problem?

Do you realize that the 9918A (the video chip in the 99/4A) can *not* draw more than 4 sprites at a time on a single horizontal row? So, if you are trying to put 5 or more sprites close enough to one another that some of their horizontal lines overlap, the higher order sprites will not be drawn.

Hi Matthew

The sprite problem is not to do with the 9918A 4-sprite-in-a-row issue. I have coded sprites on the V359 release of Classic99 which did not show up
properly, but when I run this same program under a previous revision the sprites are fine.

[matthew180]

Post a simple program that exposes the problem and a screen shot.

[sometimes99er]

Sprites with "L" and "E" are not showing. Just like on the real deal.



I think Classic99 at one point didn't have the horizontal limitation.

[marc.hull]

sometimes99er, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:24 AM, said:

I think Classic99 at one point didn't have the horizontal limitation.

Your correct. I remember Owen having the same issue...

[TEXAS_JOE]

sometimes99er, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:24 AM, said:

Sprites with "L" and "E" are not showing. Just like on the real deal.



I think Classic99 at one point didn't have the horizontal limitation.

Thankyou for your help! :-) it kinda sucks because it has totally screwed up my "timer" graphic,
which was basically a long white bar which went down in increments (just a set of sprites placed together)

My games don't naturally look quite this shit. I wander if there can be a resolve?

[TEXAS_JOE]

TEXAS_JOE, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:34 AM, said:

sometimes99er, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:24 AM, said:

Sprites with "L" and "E" are not showing. Just like on the real deal.



I think Classic99 at one point didn't have the horizontal limitation.

Thankyou for your help! :-) it kinda sucks because it has totally screwed up my "timer" graphic,
which was basically a long white bar which went down in increments (just a set of sprites placed together)

My games don't naturally look quite this shit. I wander if there can be a resolve?

This is what the Boggle game SHOULD look like, with it's timer graphics in full swing and no messed up sprites.  boggle bmp.bmp   615.71K   13 downloads

[matthew180]

Classic99 could show all the sprites, i.e. remove the limitation, and as noted it once did. However Tursi opted for accuracy in later revisions. I face the same issue with the F18A, since I can (and have) removed the limitation, however it was brought up that certain games and such *use* the limitation to their advantage, and thus those games would not function correctly without the limitation.

It is a catch-22 and a hard decision to make if you are writing an emulator or remaking the hardware (in the case of the F18A.) I opted to let the user decide via a jumper as well as via software. Tursi might decide to add an option to Classic99 as well, but that's up to him; a button on the toolbar to toggle the option might be nice.

[Tursi]

Thanks for the kind words. I've tested the sound generator here, and all 8 noises are working in Extended BASIC for me. Might need more information there.

It's true that old versions of Classic99 did not have the 4-sprite-per-line limit, but that was fixed a very long time ago. You can disable the limit with Video->Flicker (turn it off and all sprites are displayed), but be aware that there's no way to do that on real hardware.

[TEXAS_JOE]

matthew180, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:35 PM, said:

Classic99 could show all the sprites, i.e. remove the limitation, and as noted it once did. However Tursi opted for accuracy in later revisions. I face the same issue with the F18A, since I can (and have) removed the limitation, however it was brought up that certain games and such *use* the limitation to their advantage, and thus those games would not function correctly without the limitation.

It is a catch-22 and a hard decision to make if you are writing an emulator or remaking the hardware (in the case of the F18A.) I opted to let the user decide via a jumper as well as via software. Tursi might decide to add an option to Classic99 as well, but that's up to him; a button on the toolbar to toggle the option might be nice.

I'll stick with the newest revision and re-code my games perhaps, to suit the 9918A chip proper with limitations included ... The realism is appreciated more than anything .... thanks to all for replies ... It was a 'me' problem, not an 'it' problem

[matthew180]

Tursi, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:42 PM, said:

but be aware that there's no way to do that on real hardware.

Yet...

[matthew180]

TEXAS_JOE, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:00 PM, said:

I'll stick with the newest revision and re-code my games perhaps, to suit the 9918A chip proper with limitations included ... The realism is appreciated more than anything ....

Note that a lot of people use real consoles, so if you use an "emulator only" feature, you prevent those of us who like to run on the metal from playing your games. That's one of the big reasons Tursi is reluctant to add features that are not characteristics of the real console.

[TEXAS_JOE]

matthew180, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:12 PM, said:

TEXAS_JOE, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:00 PM, said:

I'll stick with the newest revision and re-code my games perhaps, to suit the 9918A chip proper with limitations included ... The realism is appreciated more than anything ....

Note that a lot of people use real consoles, so if you use an "emulator only" feature, you prevent those of us who like to run on the metal from playing your games. That's one of the big reasons Tursi is reluctant to add features that are not characteristics of the real console.

From now on, I'm going to write software that will run on a real TI. I love the fact that Tursi is putting so much into the emulator.
I was asked today by my friend Daz (we owned the same TI 99 back in the 80's) if Tursi's doing a Linux port of Classic 99, and if so
when would it be out .... I turned round and said "I dont know - I dare'nt ask him, he's really busy!"

And Matthew180, I thank you for telling me about the 9918A sprite limit, because until we spoke, I had no idea. Is this limitation also
resident in the ColecoVision console ?

[TEXAS_JOE]

Tursi, on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:42 PM, said:

Thanks for the kind words. I've tested the sound generator here, and all 8 noises are working in Extended BASIC for me. Might need more information there.

It's true that old versions of Classic99 did not have the 4-sprite-per-line limit, but that was fixed a very long time ago. You can disable the limit with Video->Flicker (turn it off and all sprites are displayed), but be aware that there's no way to do that on real hardware.

Hi Tursi. I re-tried the noise generator sounds, and it turns out that -4 and -8 are making the same noise (its a kind of pitter-patter)
It could just be my sound card on the laptop, in fact i'm almost certain it IS my laptop that is at fault when it comes to sound, because it didn't
actually produce ANY sound under -8 the other day (that and the fact im 50 percent deaf probably doesn't help me at all)

Man, I love coding. My wife hates it. She tried to snap the laptop on my fingers the other day. Bitch.

[Tursi]

TEXAS_JOE, on Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:03 PM, said:

Hi Tursi. I re-tried the noise generator sounds, and it turns out that -4 and -8 are making the same noise (its a kind of pitter-patter)
It could just be my sound card on the laptop, in fact i'm almost certain it IS my laptop that is at fault when it comes to sound, because it didn't actually produce ANY sound under -8 the other day (that and the fact im 50 percent deaf probably doesn't help me at all)

-4 and -8 are subtly different at the default rate in BASIC, but what they really are is user-defined, you have to set a shift rate in voice 3 to actually hear them correctly. Try these two lines, one at a time (note I have muted all the voices /except/ the noise):

CALL SOUND(4000,110,30,110,30,550,30,-4,0)
CALL SOUND(4000,110,30,110,30,550,30,-8,0)

Change the shift rate of voice 3 (the '550') to get different pitches of noise.

As for a Linux port, it's not likely to come around any time soon. Classic99 is coded into the Windows API, specifically using Win32 threads and DirectX for video and audio. While there are general-purpose libraries that provide wrappers to make these things cross-platform, I moved away from them a long time ago. There was an independent project to rebuild Classic99 in C#, which would allow it to run under Mono, and that may be the future. But for me it's a long time off.

I will note I have put more thought into it lately, especially with the number of people having small troubles under Parallels and Wine.

[TEXAS_JOE]

10 CALL SOUND(600,110,30,110,30,2000,30,-8,0)

20 CALL SOUND(400,110,30,110,30,1700,30,-8,0)

30 CALL SOUND(300,110,30,110,30,1400,30,-8,0)

40 CALL SOUND(200,110,30,110,30,1200,30,-8,0)

THIS IS AN ATTEMPT AT A TOMBSTONE CITY STYLE BLAST NOISE,
IF I CAN GET IT JUST RIGHT (WHICH IT AINT) I WILL TRY
TO PUT IT INTO MY TEXAS JACKPOT GAME.

SO, THANKS FOR THE NOISE CHANNEL HELP!

[sometimes99er]

Try this in XB

100 CALL SOUND(-300,110,30,110,30,2330,30,-8,0)
110 CALL SOUND(-300,110,30,110,30,2330,30,-8,0)
120 CALL SOUND(-300,110,30,110,30,1398,30,-8,0)
130 CALL SOUND(-300,110,30,110,30,1398,30,-8,0)
140 CALL SOUND(-150,110,30,110,30,999,30,-8,0)
150 CALL SOUND(-150,110,30,110,30,777,30,-8,0)
RUN