188 replies to this topic

[zombiecraig]

I never got around to playing Ultima VII back in my younger days, but would really like to go back and give it a go now.

However, I seem to recall several expansions that came out later. Serpent Isle, Forge of Virtue, I think? So what is the most complete version that I can get and are these expansions worthwhile?

Edited by zombiecraig, Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:37 AM.

[Albert]

Ultima VII is really two games. Ultima VII: The Black Gate and then Ultima VII Part II: Serpent Isle. Each of these had an expansion, "Forge of Virtue" for the first part and "Silver Seed" for Part II. You really want to play each game, with the expansion already installed, in order. Ultima VII is one of my favorite games in the Ultima series. I haven't tried playing them recently, on modern computing hardware, but with something like DOSBox it should be reasonably possible (in Windows, OS X, etc.) One of the items I have on a list of things I'd like to do is,

"Play all the Ultima games in order, from start to finish"

There are a few I've never played, for instance, Ultima V. Which is a crime since I know that's one of the better games. And Ultima VIII, which I gave up on after "random death" (such a crime after the wonderful Ultima VII games) and Ultima IX, which was the first attempt at a 3D Ultima and plagued with problems. Someday I will go through them all.

..Al

[Midnight Synergy]

FYI, you can often find the "Complete Ultima VII" on ebay, which is both parts with both expansions.

I never got into VII myself, I just couldn't deal with the interface (I was used to the classic system used up to Ultima V. It's on my to-do list to give it another try one day, but not for the foreeable future (who has time for RPGs these days?).

Btw, Albert, Ultima V is indeed great, a really worth follow-up to Ultima IV. It's story is the dark flip-side of the morality system of IV, which lends itself to some really outstanding moments.

[Tempest]

Albert, on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:26 PM, said:

There are a few I've never played, for instance, Ultima V. Which is a crime since I know that's one of the better games.

Yes that should be a crime. Ultima V has a special place in my heart because it was the last Ultima made for the Apple II and by far the most fulfilling RPG I had ever played up until that point. I didn't beat it back in the day, but I finally got around to it a few years ago. It was worth the wait.

My crime is that I've never played Ultima's VII, VIII, or IX. I own them, just never got around to playing them. Ultima VI is the odd man out, never played it or owned it. I really should.

Tempest

[Christophero Sly]

VII is great, except for the combat, but Ultima V is the best Ultima, and probably the best classic CRPG as well.

[Cebus Capucinis]

I haven't played VII either! I went through I, II, and III, and then haven't played IV and played part of V. I'd like to re-do them all in order as well. I probably enjoyed Ultima II the most, just for the bizarre nature of travelling to different planets, etc.

[Albert]

It really is a crime to not have played the two Ultima VII games, they really are fantastic. Ultima VI has a special place in my heart, as it's the first Ultima I bought and played after buying a $3,000 Gateway 386DX computer. Such a fun game and it looked beautiful at the time. I also played Martian Dreams (based on the same engine) but never played Savage Empire, so those two are on my list to play after Ultima VI when I go through and replay the entire series.

I'm a huge Ultima fan, btw. When I was working at Ion Storm I had all the Ultima maps on my office wall. One day Richard Garriott came into the office (he's friends with Warren Spector, who was heading up our office) and came into my office and was impressed (or perhaps frightened). Just wish I had taken a picture at the time. I do have a picture of the maps on the wall, and that's surely already posted on AtariAge somewhere!

..Al

[Midnight Synergy]

Cool story... I didn't know you used to work at Ion Storm, in what capacity?

I do love those maps. I had them up in my room for a while as well, but now they're safely in their boxes.

And speaking of Garriott, I talked to him briefly at the GDC 2006 (where he got an honourary award). I didn't expect to bump into him, so I just stammered something about really liking Ultima IV. I only thought of all sorts of good questions after he was out of the room again.

[cimerians]

ULTIMA COLLECTION

http://www.amazon.co...ASIN=B000028U20

I played and finished every Ultima except for 6 and 8. I finished Ultima VII back in the mid 90's, I really need to play it through again.
One day I will play those others as well. Ultima VII is my second or third favorite and the expansion is great.

To play Ultima VII use EXULT:

http://exult.sourceforge.net/

It runs fine on my Windows 7 PC 64-bit.

Check Amazon and I would check GOG.com as they will be releasing the Ultima games soon.

http://www.gog.com/

[zombiecraig]

Thanks to Al for setting me straight on how Ultima VII is lined-up. And thanks to everyone else for the Ultima talk.

Al - that photo of your office is around here somewhere. I recall seeing it before and being impressed.

I've been hoping that GOG might release the whole Ultima series like they did with that big Might & Magic pack. Is it slated to be in this new batch of EA/Origin releases? I know Wing Commander 1 & 2 were released recently. And GOG had already released both Ultima Underworld games, of course. How about those? I've always heard good things, but never got around to those, either.

I thought that I remembered Ultima VIII not being too highly regarded. However, I checked some reviews online and it is actually getting a lot of praise. Might have to check that one out, as well.

Edited by zombiecraig, Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:27 PM.

[Albert]

zombiecraig, on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:25 PM, said:

Al - that photo of your office is around here somewhere. I recall seeing it before and being impressed.

Just did a quick search and found it:



Ahh, more pictures posted here:

http://www.atariage....ost__p__2242151

Quote

And GOG had already released both Ultima Underworld games, of course. How about those? I've always heard good things, but never got around to those, either.

The Ultima Underworld games kick ass, they are WELL worth playing. They should be played somewhere in the realm of the Ultima VII games, but I don't remember the exact timeline.

Quote

I thought that I remembered Ultima VIII not being too highly regarded. However, I checked some reviews online and it is actually getting a lot of praise. Might have to check that one out, as well.

Ultima VIII sucks donkey balls, I can't believe anyone has given it a favorable review!!

..Al

[cimerians]

Now thats cool!

Where did you get the Exodus, Warriors of Destiny etc posters or did you make them?

[Tempest]

cimerians, on Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:50 AM, said:

Now thats cool!

Where did you get the Exodus, Warriors of Destiny etc posters or did you make them?

I have the Warriors of Destiny (Ultima V) poster in my computer room. It was mail order from Origin. The Ultima III one may have come with the game though, I don't recall being able to order that one.

Tempest

[Albert]

cimerians, on Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:50 AM, said:

Now thats cool!

Where did you get the Exodus, Warriors of Destiny etc posters or did you make them?

The Warriors of Destiny poster came from an ex-Origin employee, I believe. I may have traded it for some anime posters. It's even mounted on foamboard. I think the Ultima VII poster I got when I originally purchased Ultima VII eons ago. And the Exodus poster, no idea where that came from--probably traded for that one as well.

..Al

[zombiecraig]

Albert, on Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:07 PM, said:

Quote

I thought that I remembered Ultima VIII not being too highly regarded. However, I checked some reviews online and it is actually getting a lot of praise. Might have to check that one out, as well.

Ultima VIII sucks donkey balls, I can't believe anyone has given it a favorable review!!

..Al

AHA! See, that's what I always thought that I had heard in the past.

I'll keep your opinion in mind and take some of these other reviews with a grain of salt.

[Goochman]

Ive finished them all (exscept the addon packs for U7) and Im probably in the minority for my favorites

U2 was my first and I still like that one - most Ultima fans hate it though.

U4 is prob one of the best. I played U5 on my Atari ST and it was buggy so it didnt resonate too well for me, but prob right behind U4. U7 was detailed but my little PC couldnt play it well so I didnt continue with the expansion packs.

U8 was just whacky - I used a walkthrough to help me finish it. It was 'ok' after the jumping patch was released.

U9 could've been awesome - however Origin didnt have a real good 3D Engine dev team and the bugs were too numerous....The world got really small also (atleast how one might envision how big Sosaria is )- I still like U9 though cause the scenery was really nice and it was the only 3D Ultima.

The Underworld series was pretty decent also - I enjoyed those to.

I guess I must confess I didnt play and finish the console versions

Edited by Goochman, Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:11 AM.

[cimerians]

Tempest, on Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:13 AM, said:

I have the Warriors of Destiny (Ultima V) poster in my computer room. It was mail order from Origin. The Ultima III one may have come with the game though, I don't recall being able to order that one.

Tempest

Albert, on Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:00 AM, said:

The Warriors of Destiny poster came from an ex-Origin employee, I believe. I may have traded it for some anime posters. It's even mounted on foamboard. I think the Ultima VII poster I got when I originally purchased Ultima VII eons ago. And the Exodus poster, no idea where that came from--probably traded for that one as well.

..Al

Wow...I really missed out on those if I had the chance. Great games, great posters. I miss this series a whole lot.

[Asaki]

Personally, I loved VIII, but I might be biased since it was the first game in the series that I really got into.

Shame about the bugs, though. I was somewhere near the end when a game-stopping one hit me and corrupted my save files. I ended up starting a new game and cheating to see the ending =/

I tried going through all of the games in order, but for some reason, II is a lot harder to get into than the first game was.

The Underworld games are awesome (like most Looking Glass games), but it's hard to get into the second one right after playing the first one, because the art isn't as good. I gave myself some time to forget the first one, and now am enjoying the second one much more.

Edited by Asaki, Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:32 AM.

[Albert]

Asaki, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:30 AM, said:

Personally, I loved VIII, but I might be biased since it was the first game in the series that I really got into.

I'm glad I didn't play VIII first, or I may never have played another Ultima! I was damn eager to play it since VII and VII Part II were fantastic, boy, what a letdown. You're thrown on a completely different world, the artwork was "rendered" and looked terrible, and the random death really killed it for me. I mean, I'm walking around in a dungeon and the ground gives way underneath me and I fall into lava. Seriously? WTF? I stopped playing at that point. This was before the large patch was released that addressed many of these issues, added targeted jumping, and so forth. I will play it eventually, it has "been a thorn in my side for far too long."

Quote

Shame about the bugs, though. I was somewhere near the end when a game-stopping one hit me and corrupted my save files. I ended up starting a new game and cheating to see the ending =/

Ugh, that would drive me crazy if I got close to the end and my save file got corrupted! I seem to remember this happening to me in Stonekeep, another buggy RPG..

Quote

I tried going through all of the games in order, but for some reason, II is a lot harder to get into than the first game was.

I remember blazing through Ultima I and Ultima II, couldn't have taken more than a day each to play them. Once you get to Ultima III, you're spending considerably more time on each game!

Quote

The Underworld games are awesome (like most Looking Glass games), but it's hard to get into the second one right after playing the first one, because the art isn't as good. I gave myself some time to forget the first one, and now am enjoying the second one much more.

Yeah, I've only gone through those games once, so I really need to play them again. They are what inspired me to seek employment with Looking Glass, that and System Shock (and I did eventually work for them!)

..Al

[Goochman]

Asaki, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:30 AM, said:

I tried going through all of the games in order, but for some reason, II is a lot harder to get into than the first game was.

Here is the problem with U2 - when it was released there was nothing like it. You had to really go through all the towns and talk to everyone who 'wasnt moving' to get clues. They based to storyline on the movie Time Bandit to some degree.

It was awesome having to play the Earth in different time zones and then fly to all the planets - there wasnt a 'storyline' per se.

Fast forward with all the depth and storylines generated after U2 and it leaves many scratching their heads. If you played it in 1981 or 1982 it really pushed your imagination - atleast for me it did

[Christophero Sly]

UI - It's been a loooong time since I played this one. I need to replay it before I can offer an honest opinion.

UII - My first Ultima, and I love it. It's unfairly criticized. Yes, when compared to the other installments, it's a bit unconventional, but it's chock full of ambition and great ideas, and it's a game that helped invent the whole genre, so cut it some slack and appreciate it for what it is, not what you think it should be 30 years on.

III - A solid game that introduced many technical advancements, but the game has some grievous balance and design issues. Playing it through to the end (at least with any sense of moral consistency) is a tremendous grind. Just getting enough gold to buy the necessary attribute points can easily take weeks of honest gameplay. I ended up spamming the dungeon "Snake" for gold on my last playthrough, and it still took me days of work to gather the requisite gold. The constant back and forth to Ambrosia is a huge chore as well. Ultima II is the better game.

IV - I've never cared for it. The gameplay here was just, frankly, boring.

V - The best Ultima, and the greatest classic CRPG. Brilliant in nearly every respect.

VI - I've always felt that the plot, while not dull, is a bit lackluster in comparison to the other installments. I could nitpick a few design/interface issues as well. Nevertheless, a solid entry in the series.

VII - The hallmarks of this game are its enormous scope (for its time) and its excellent plot. It has the most cohesive plot I've ever encountered in any RPG. It even puts more recent games like Baldur's Gate 2 and Dragons Age: Origins to shame in that respect. However, I struggled mightily with the interface, and the combat was a complete disappointment, and the requirement to keep my ravenous companions properly nourished throughout the game reached farcical proportions. Nevertheless, even with those serious flaws, this is a fantastic game. I still need to play Part 2.

VIII - Haven't played it, and until recently had no plans to do so. Having viewed the game in action in various YT videos, and after reading the experiences Albert had with the game, it didn't seem like anything I'd enjoy. Doesn't even seem like Ultima to me. But now I see a couple of folks in this thread are sticking up for the game, so maybe it's time to reconsider and give this game a chance.

IX - Never played it. Again, was this even really Ultima by this point?


In order, best to worst: V, VII, II, VI, III, IV

[Goochman]

I played U1 - U3 on an Apple recently. U1 is not that good, but a bit better than I remember. It really is unbalaced and shows the work of a school project that it was

Its a bit comical how U1 rewards players with gold/experience. Also dont forget about the 'signs' and no matter how strong you get, level 4 in a dungeon is deadly - better bring some spells

[Tempest]

Goochman, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:28 PM, said:

I played U1 - U3 on an Apple recently. U1 is not that good, but a bit better than I remember. It really is unbalaced and shows the work of a school project that it was

Its a bit comical how U1 rewards players with gold/experience. Also dont forget about the 'signs' and no matter how strong you get, level 4 in a dungeon is deadly - better bring some spells

The best version of U1 I've played is the Apple IIgs remake. Not only did they update the graphics a bit, but they fixed some of the bugs in the game. It's still unbalanced and not all that great, but it's a heck of a lot more playable than the old Apple II version.

Tempest

[remowilliams]

[Tempest]

remowilliams, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:03 PM, said:

That's one ROUS!

Tempest