44 replies to this topic

[T2KFREEKER]

Flashback is amazing. One of the best games in it's genre.

As for slowdown issues in 2D side scrollers on the Jaguar. Yes, there is some on Flashback. Doesn't kill the game though. As for Pitfall, after a lengthy discussion about this over at another Jaguar related site, we came to the determination that this is only an issue in the PAL regions as switching to 50hz seems to have ill effects on the game. There are several people that have beaten the Jaguar version, myself included, that have never seen slowdown in Pitfall of any kind. If anything, I really enjoy the added and smoother animations and framerate of the game.

Blackthorne is very much like Flashback. It has nothing to do with Delphine Software though. For those interested though, the game was created by Blizzard and the 32X version is downright amazing. It is more action based than Flash Back, as previously stated, but it is a damn fine game. Just as a note, yes the game is available on the SNES and GBA, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

[Austin]

T2KFREEKER, on Sat Sep 3, 2011 1:36 PM, said:

There are several people that have beaten the Jaguar version, myself included, that have never seen slowdown in Pitfall of any kind. If anything, I really enjoy the added and smoother animations and framerate of the game.

Right, there isn't slowdown in Pitfall. It relies on frameskipping when the system can't handle things entirely. It's certainly there in the US version, and I wouldn't doubt it's exemplified in the PAL release. It's particularly prominent on the water/waterfall stages.

The best I can compare it to is like running a console emulator on an older computer that maybe isn't capable of doing so 100%. Rather than have everything run like it's treading through molasses, allowing frameskipping keeps the overall brisk pace of whatever game is being played, but in compensation of a smooth framerate. Everything has a choppier look and feel due there obviously being missing frames in this case.

Now that I have the proper hardware and software, in the future I will do a side-by-side comparison video to lay this one to rest once in for all.

Edited by Austin, Sat Sep 3, 2011 2:55 PM.

[T2KFREEKER]

Austin, on Sat Sep 3, 2011 2:49 PM, said:

T2KFREEKER, on Sat Sep 3, 2011 1:36 PM, said:

There are several people that have beaten the Jaguar version, myself included, that have never seen slowdown in Pitfall of any kind. If anything, I really enjoy the added and smoother animations and framerate of the game.

Right, there isn't slowdown in Pitfall. It relies on frameskipping when the system can't handle things entirely. It's certainly there in the US version, and I wouldn't doubt it's exemplified in the PAL release. It's particularly prominent on the water/waterfall stages.

The best I can compare it to is like running a console emulator on an older computer that maybe isn't capable of doing so 100%. Rather than have everything run like it's treading through molasses, allowing frameskipping keeps the overall brisk pace of whatever game is being played, but in compensation of a smooth framerate. Everything has a choppier look and feel due there obviously being missing frames in this case.

Now that I have the proper hardware and software, in the future I will do a side-by-side comparison video to lay this one to rest once in for all.

Sounds good. I look forward to seeing a proper comparison on this. Nice indeed!

[doctorclu]

Austin, on Sat Sep 3, 2011 2:49 PM, said:

Right, there isn't slowdown in Pitfall. It relies on frameskipping when the system can't handle things entirely. It's certainly there in the US version, and I wouldn't doubt it's exemplified in the PAL release. It's particularly prominent on the water/waterfall stages.

Huh? I never noticed that in Pitfall. Gives me an excuse to play this game and check that out.

But I always thought the Jaguar version of Pitfall was amazing. Includes the 2600 emu portion of the game (which the Gameboy Advance did not have). The only thing you can complain on with the Jaguar verses the Genesis version is that the final boss is not as difficult on the Jaguar version.

But otherwise Pitfall is great.

[Austin]

doctorclu, on Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:14 PM, said:

Huh? I never noticed that in Pitfall. Gives me an excuse to play this game and check that out.

Best way I can have you understand is play through the second stage on, say, the Genesis version, then go immediately to the same level on the Jaguar version. I think you will notice a difference.

[Gunstar]

Austin, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:03 PM, said:

Mark T, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:00 PM, said:

So would it be safe to assume all platform games on the Jag are way better than the Genesis/SNES versions?

It depends on your classification of "better". For instance, games like Flashback and Pitfall both have slowdown and framerate issues that some of the other ones do not have (for instance, both games on the Genesis have no slowdown or framerate issues). The Jag versions however have some enhancements. Pitfall has more colorful visuals and it has a save function (the only version to do so, I believe). Flashback has a few other background details not in the other versions as well. Personally, I prefer a smoother gameplay experience, but some prefer the visual enhancements.

I really can't see were you are coming from. I used to own the Genesis version of Flashback, played it all the way through, so I know what it is like (great game), but I also own Jag version which I also played through, and I never once came across any bit of slow-down. In fact, it's more colorful and detailed AND smoother animation than the Genesis version. Never played any other versions. Pitfall! I have only ever played on the Jaguar, but again, I never saw any slow-down problems in it either, and I have heard from others that the Jag version is more colorful and detailed and smoother animation too. The fact is, there isn't really enough difference in any from what I tried and heard from others, to make too much of a distinction between any version, except that the CD versions have FMV and the cart versions use real computer animation, which I prefer anyway. Maybe better music on the CD versions, but the Jag and Genny versions have fine music anyway. But both games do have ever-so slight upgrades to detail and color on the Jag version over the 16-bit versions. The 3DO may be an exception to that, I could see how it could have the same level of graphics as the Jag version, but I never played it, so can't comment for sure.

I say to A_Loco*, get the Jaguar version of both, if you are going to collect them anyway and don't waste more money on the Sega CD version of Flashback unless you decide you're not going to get the Jag version, just becuase the Sega CD (or Genesis/SNES) is cheaper; don't worry about slowdown, on Jag versions, I never noticed, and if it actually does exist, I promise you won't notice anyway if you've never played the so-called versions that don't have slowdown.

By the way, are people that see this so-called slowdown in the frame rate using 50HZ PAL Jaguars? Those might run slower than the 60HZ, but other than that possibility, I know I never noticed slowdown on my Jaguar versions on a 60HZ NTSC Jaguar.

Edited by Gunstar, Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:53 PM.

[A_Locomotive]

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

I say to A_Loco*, get the Jaguar version of both, if you are going to collect them anyway and don't waste more money on the Sega CD version of Flashback unless you decide you're not going to get the Jag version, just becuase the Sega CD (or Genesis/SNES) is cheaper; don't worry about slowdown, on Jag versions, I never noticed, and if it actually does exist, I promise you won't notice anyway if you've never played the so-called versions that don't have slowdown.

I'm not bothered by slow down if there is any. So long as its not crippling and game breaking it wouldn't really bother me, I don't own a Sega CD nor Genesis and don't have any real interest in getting one right now or in the foreseeable future. Pitfall I've also been meaning to track down it looks like great fun as well! Flashback is my current goal though so I haven't looked in a while. I was bidding on one on ebay but its getting close to the limit of what I'm willing to pay considering the fairly expensive shipping(plus I'm about to buy a Neo Geo Pocket Color that popped up on craigslist NIB which is going to eat $40 of my gaming money ), so not sure I'm going to be placing any more bids. :/

[Austin]

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

I really can't see were you are coming from. I used to own the Genesis version of Flashback, played it all the way through, so I know what it is like (great game), but I also own Jag version which I also played through, and I never once came across any bit of slow-down. In fact, it's more colorful and detailed AND smoother animation than the Genesis version.

Maybe you should play it again? There was plenty of slowdown in New Washington last time I played it. Usually when there are multiple enemies on the screen (the jetpack guards).

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

Pitfall! I have only ever played on the Jaguar, but again, I never saw any slow-down problems in it either

No slowdown in Pitfall--it has a choppy framerate when the system chokes (frameskipping).

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

and I have heard from others that the Jag version is more colorful and detailed and smoother animation too.

There is without a doubt much more color in the Jaguar game. It looks great. It probably *would* look like it has smoother animation, but the framerate issues kill any hope of that.

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

The fact is, there isn't really enough difference in any from what I tried and heard from others, to make too much of a distinction between any version, except that the CD versions have FMV and the cart versions use real computer animation, which I prefer anyway. Maybe better music on the CD versions, but the Jag and Genny versions have fine music anyway. But both games do have ever-so slight upgrades to detail and color on the Jag version over the 16-bit versions. The 3DO may be an exception to that, I could see how it could have the same level of graphics as the Jag version, but I never played it, so can't comment for sure.

Not sure which games you are talking about here, I'm guessing Pitfall at first, then Flashback second.

In terms of Flashback, the Jaguar version is the only one to have the spruced-up backgrounds. They are very light upgrades though, most-noticeable in the New Washington area. FMV on other CD releases is different, to each their own on that. Only the Sega CD version has constant in-game CD music. Constant is the key word here--the other versions, CD or not, have sporadic interludes when action occurs or a piece of a puzzle has been solved. Flashback is a mostly silent game otherwise, unless you play the Sega CD version.

In terms of Pitfall, the games are basically the same across all platforms until you get into the high color count in some versions and performance issues. The PC, Jaguar and 32X have the higher color counts. The Jaguar has the save functionality. The Sega CD has FMV (possibly the PC-CD, if it's there), but it's only an Activision logo at the beginning and an extended (I think it's extended anyway) version of the Pitfall: the Mayan Adventure TV commercial. Asides from the CD soundtrack in that one (excellent, by the way), everything else is the same in-game, from the 2D-sprite-oriented intro, to the game's retro Pitfall Harry ending. The Jaguar version has inconsistent performance issues, some areas of the game being worse than others. The 32X version actually has it worse, surprisingly (considering the Genny one ran smooth, you would think the 32X one would have been the same).

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

don't waste more money on the Sega CD version of Flashback unless you decide you're not going to get the Jag version, just becuase the Sega CD (or Genesis/SNES) is cheaper;

I'm sorry.. what kind of advice is this? Don't buy a version of the game "if you can't find the Jaguar version"?

"Hey, this game is awesome.. but don't play any of the other ones. Even if you can't get the Jaguar version, and even if other versions may be better. Take these words of wisdom, and miss out on an otherwise great game entirely!".

I'm guessing you wrote that wrong.

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

By the way, are people that see this so-called slowdown in the frame rate using 50HZ PAL Jaguars? Those might run slower than the 60HZ, but other than that possibility, I know I never noticed slowdown on my Jaguar versions on a 60HZ NTSC Jaguar.

Already been discussed in this thread.. 60HZ, US Jaguar.

Edited by Austin, Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:47 PM.

[Willard]

I love flashback, but the redone fmv sequences (sega cd, 3do, cdi) just look really awkward imo.

Most versions are stretched vertically to full screen and appear slightly distorted, although there are some versions that display the game properly with black bars on the side. These include the FM Towns, CDi and Amiga versions (possibly others).

The FM Towns and Amiga versions both have a zoom feature (manual zoom or auto-zoom only during gunfights). The FM towns versions also has floppy save, but uses Japanese text so it's a bit of a tradeoff. I personally like the towns version the most though.

The Jaguar's version is definitely great too (probably my second favorite because it uses the original video sequences and I've never played the genesis or snes versions). I'd recommend it on any platform, but there are differences among the versions so you may prefer one over another.

Edited by Willard, Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:54 PM.

[JagChris]

Austin, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:43 PM, said:

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

I really can't see were you are coming from. I used to own the Genesis version of Flashback, played it all the way through, so I know what it is like (great game), but I also own Jag version which I also played through, and I never once came across any bit of slow-down. In fact, it's more colorful and detailed AND smoother animation than the Genesis version.

Maybe you should play it again? There was plenty of slowdown in New Washington last time I played it. Usually when there are multiple enemies on the screen (the jetpack guards).

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

Pitfall! I have only ever played on the Jaguar, but again, I never saw any slow-down problems in it either

No slowdown in Pitfall--it has a choppy framerate when the system chokes (frameskipping).

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

and I have heard from others that the Jag version is more colorful and detailed and smoother animation too.

How are you able to see this 'frameskipping' you keep speaking of? Are you videotaping it and playing it back in slow motion? You mention Pitfall TMA on the Jag and T2K has it. I cannot see it.

There is without a doubt much more color in the Jaguar game. It looks great. It probably *would* look like it has smoother animation, but the framerate issues kill any hope of that.

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

The fact is, there isn't really enough difference in any from what I tried and heard from others, to make too much of a distinction between any version, except that the CD versions have FMV and the cart versions use real computer animation, which I prefer anyway. Maybe better music on the CD versions, but the Jag and Genny versions have fine music anyway. But both games do have ever-so slight upgrades to detail and color on the Jag version over the 16-bit versions. The 3DO may be an exception to that, I could see how it could have the same level of graphics as the Jag version, but I never played it, so can't comment for sure.

Not sure which games you are talking about here, I'm guessing Pitfall at first, then Flashback second.

In terms of Flashback, the Jaguar version is the only one to have the spruced-up backgrounds. They are very light upgrades though, most-noticeable in the New Washington area. FMV on other CD releases is different, to each their own on that. Only the Sega CD version has constant in-game CD music. Constant is the key word here--the other versions, CD or not, have sporadic interludes when action occurs or a piece of a puzzle has been solved. Flashback is a mostly silent game otherwise, unless you play the Sega CD version.

In terms of Pitfall, the games are basically the same across all platforms until you get into the high color count in some versions and performance issues. The PC, Jaguar and 32X have the higher color counts. The Jaguar has the save functionality. The Sega CD has FMV (possibly the PC-CD, if it's there), but it's only an Activision logo at the beginning and an extended (I think it's extended anyway) version of the Pitfall: the Mayan Adventure TV commercial. Asides from the CD soundtrack in that one (excellent, by the way), everything else is the same in-game, from the 2D-sprite-oriented intro, to the game's retro Pitfall Harry ending. The Jaguar version has inconsistent performance issues, some areas of the game being worse than others. The 32X version actually has it worse, surprisingly (considering the Genny one ran smooth, you would think the 32X one would have been the same).

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

don't waste more money on the Sega CD version of Flashback unless you decide you're not going to get the Jag version, just becuase the Sega CD (or Genesis/SNES) is cheaper;

I'm sorry.. what kind of advice is this? Don't buy a version of the game "if you can't find the Jaguar version"?

"Hey, this game is awesome.. but don't play any of the other ones. Even if you can't get the Jaguar version, and even if other versions may be better. Take these words of wisdom, and miss out on an otherwise great game entirely!".

I'm guessing you wrote that wrong.

Gunstar, on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:41 PM, said:

By the way, are people that see this so-called slowdown in the frame rate using 50HZ PAL Jaguars? Those might run slower than the 60HZ, but other than that possibility, I know I never noticed slowdown on my Jaguar versions on a 60HZ NTSC Jaguar.

Already been discussed in this thread.. 60HZ, US Jaguar.

[A_Locomotive]

So I finally managed to get this game in a trade along with a boxed copy of Rayman, sat down tonight to give it a try for the first time and man is it kicking my butt lol. I can't get a hang of the jumping mechanic(or even sure exactly how it works). It seems kind of inconsistent but maybe its because I have no idea how to do it properly. I can't figure out exactly what combination of A and d-pad it is. Seems like its tap diagonal up but it doesn't seem to work consistently so I can't get ahang of the timing. :/

[Austin]

Flashback is a tricky one to get used to, for sure. Once you do though, it will become second nature.

There are multiple ways to jump. I'm just working out of memory here, so some of the execution I'm about to say might be off:

- Tapping up will let you jump straight up. This is for climbing ledges higher than you. Holding one of your buttons at the right time will let you hang on the ledge.

- Holding one of your buttons and pressing up will let you do a small hop forward. Useful for basic platforming sections and jumping over ground traps.

- Tapping the run button in conjunction with the d-pad in a certain direction will allow you to run. Holding up while running will let you do a long jump. There is a little delay in the jump, like Prince of Persia, if I remember correctly.

- When your character is running, let off any action button. When he runs near a ledge, he will *automatically* jump up and grab it. Some ledges can only be reached this way, including the infamous jump at the beginning of the New Washington chapter.

*edit: on that last one, GKC said it correctly--you still have to hold the button after letting go of the direction for the auto-jump

Edited by Austin, Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:07 PM.

[GKC]

A_Locomotive, on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:55 PM, said:

So I finally managed to get this game in a trade along with a boxed copy of Rayman, sat down tonight to give it a try for the first time and man is it kicking my butt lol. I can't get a hang of the jumping mechanic(or even sure exactly how it works). It seems kind of inconsistent but maybe its because I have no idea how to do it properly. I can't figure out exactly what combination of A and d-pad it is. Seems like its tap diagonal up but it doesn't seem to work consistently so I can't get ahang of the timing. :/

If you haven't already you should invest in the Jaguar Gamers Guide. I got mine for pretty cheap from a guy selling them in the UK. He had over 100 so you may want to see if he still has them.

Anyways jumping, there are 4 different types:

Jump straight up - by pressing up on the joy pad
Leap two steps forward - bt holding A button and pressing up
Long jump - by running a few steps then hold up
Leap to ledge above - by holding A button and tapping the control pad in the direction you wish to run, then let go of control pad and continue holding A.

[A_Locomotive]

GKC, on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:05 PM, said:

A_Locomotive, on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:55 PM, said:

So I finally managed to get this game in a trade along with a boxed copy of Rayman, sat down tonight to give it a try for the first time and man is it kicking my butt lol. I can't get a hang of the jumping mechanic(or even sure exactly how it works). It seems kind of inconsistent but maybe its because I have no idea how to do it properly. I can't figure out exactly what combination of A and d-pad it is. Seems like its tap diagonal up but it doesn't seem to work consistently so I can't get ahang of the timing. :/

If you haven't already you should invest in the Jaguar Gamers Guide. I got mine for pretty cheap from a guy selling them in the UK. He had over 100 so you may want to see if he still has them.

Anyways jumping, there are 4 different types:

Jump straight up - by pressing up on the joy pad
Leap two steps forward - bt holding A button and pressing up
Long jump - by running a few steps then hold up
Leap to ledge above - by holding A button and tapping the control pad in the direction you wish to run, then let go of control pad and continue holding A.

Thanks for the info, when I next play I'll do so with those combos in mind. How much was the guide from the guy you got it from? I see they are on amazon for between $8-12.

[Austin]

A_Locomotive, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:20 PM, said:

Thanks for the info, when I next play I'll do so with those combos in mind. How much was the guide from the guy you got it from? I see they are on amazon for between $8-12.

It's a good guide, IIRC. I recall reading the whole thing in a couple of nights back in the '90s, haha..

Did you ever continue to progress in Flashback?

[GKC]

A_Locomotive, on Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:20 PM, said:

GKC, on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:05 PM, said:

A_Locomotive, on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:55 PM, said:

So I finally managed to get this game in a trade along with a boxed copy of Rayman, sat down tonight to give it a try for the first time and man is it kicking my butt lol. I can't get a hang of the jumping mechanic(or even sure exactly how it works). It seems kind of inconsistent but maybe its because I have no idea how to do it properly. I can't figure out exactly what combination of A and d-pad it is. Seems like its tap diagonal up but it doesn't seem to work consistently so I can't get ahang of the timing. :/

If you haven't already you should invest in the Jaguar Gamers Guide. I got mine for pretty cheap from a guy selling them in the UK. He had over 100 so you may want to see if he still has them.

Anyways jumping, there are 4 different types:

Jump straight up - by pressing up on the joy pad
Leap two steps forward - bt holding A button and pressing up
Long jump - by running a few steps then hold up
Leap to ledge above - by holding A button and tapping the control pad in the direction you wish to run, then let go of control pad and continue holding A.

Thanks for the info, when I next play I'll do so with those combos in mind. How much was the guide from the guy you got it from? I see they are on amazon for between $8-12.

Sorry for missing this. I got mine from this guy here:

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 190338240481

Looks like it would be around $15 after shipping. It was brand new and, despite coming from England, came rather quickly if I remember correctly.

[MN12BIRD]

I love Flashback. I originally saw the game in a compucenter running on a PC and I was blown away by the animation. I grew up playing it on SNES and Genesis. The in game graphics are almost identical. The Genesis version runs a tad faster in game but the cut scene animation runs way faster and smoother on the Genesis. I do like the music on the SNES better though. So I guess they tie!

It's on almost everything. Even the Sega-CD and 3DO but they replaced the real time raster animated cut-scenes with these pre-rendered 3D videos and I think they ruin the game. They're typical Sega-CD style small and grainy FMV. The real time animated cut-scenes on the other versions are much nicer.

Edited by MN12BIRD, Tue Nov 8, 2011 7:28 PM.

[Nuclear Pacman]

I don't think the Genesis version is faster at anything over the Jag. Why would it be? It's the same CPU. I have both versions and I didn't notice anything superior coming out of the Genny game.

[MN12BIRD]

Sorry I was talking about the two versions I grew up playing. The SNES and the Genesis version. The Genesis version definitely runs faster than the SNES version. I've never seen the Jag version. It was only on the CD-ROM right? I assume it has the same style pre-rendered 3D FMV as the Sega-CD and 3DO? Once again if anyone's only grew up playing those versions I recommend checking out the real-time raster animation style cut-scenes on one of the other versions. I like the music in those cut-scenes better too. It was faster and a little more frantic IIRC the 3DO music in the cut-scenes was more moody I suppose.

Edited by MN12BIRD, Tue Nov 8, 2011 8:55 PM.

[Austin]

MN12BIRD, on Tue Nov 8, 2011 8:51 PM, said:

Sorry I was talking about the two versions I grew up playing. The SNES and the Genesis version. The Genesis version definitely runs faster than the SNES version. I've never seen the Jag version. It was only on the CD-ROM right? I assume it has the same style pre-rendered 3D FMV as the Sega-CD and 3DO? Once again if anyone's only grew up playing those versions I recommend checking out the real-time raster animation style cut-scenes on one of the other versions. I like the music in those cut-scenes better too. It was faster and a little more frantic IIRC the 3DO music in the cut-scenes was more moody I suppose.

It was a cartridge. It uses the same clips you are familiar from the 16-bit versions. What's interesting (I suppose) is they used the revamped title screen that the Sega CD/3DO/CD-i versions also used.

Screens: http://www.atariage....areLabelID=1084