48 replies to this topic

[onlysublime]

anyone excited about this one?

I'm hoping it follows the original Choplifter games versus the bastard Sega versions.

[Underball]

The Sega Master System version is identical to the arcade version.

I'm not sure what you mean by original unless you're talking about the Apple II version that had mono graphics.

[amiman99]

Looks good, I will play the demo first if available.

[AtariLeaf]

Did I hear the famous "Wilhelm" scream in that demo?

[onlysublime]

Underball, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:50 AM, said:

The Sega Master System version is identical to the arcade version.

I'm not sure what you mean by original unless you're talking about the Apple II version that had mono graphics.

The Sega version is only Choplifter in name. It got rid of the gameplay of the Apple/Atari/Commodore original by Broderbund. The Sega version is basically a shooter with simplified Choplifter game mechanics.

This is how you play the Sega version, pretty dumb:

[Underball]

onlysublime, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:22 PM, said:

Underball, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:50 AM, said:

The Sega Master System version is identical to the arcade version.

I'm not sure what you mean by original unless you're talking about the Apple II version that had mono graphics.

The Sega version is only Choplifter in name. It got rid of the gameplay of the Apple/Atari/Commodore original by Broderbund. The Sega version is basically a shooter with simplified Choplifter game mechanics.

This is how you play the Sega version, pretty dumb:

What the hell are you talking about? The gameplay is nearly identical, except that there are WAY more enemies in the Sega version.

The gameplay is simple in all version. Enter enemy territory. Blow up enemy bunkers where trapped hostages are being held. Land and pick up the hostages. Don't get killed. Don't get hostages killed. Bring hostages back to your base. Go back to next enemy bunker and get more hostages.

[cimerians]

The Sega one still plays like Choplifter and they added a lot of "shooter" stuff in it which is interesting. Its ok but I prefer the simplicity of the original Apple\Atari\Commodore versions. The Colecovision version is also solid.

[Underball]

cimerians, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:57 AM, said:

The Sega one still plays like Choplifter and they added a lot of "shooter" stuff in it which is interesting. Its ok but I prefer the simplicity of the original Apple\Atari\Commodore versions. The Colecovision version is also solid.

In the Sega version, it's really just a lot more SAM's and Missile Turrets. And more frequent Tanks and Jets. and Boats. and Lava Caves. and Sharks. and the Superman Easter Egg. and a bunch of other stuff that makes it AWESOME.

the gameplay of the original Broderbund version is the same, it's just, plain looking.

[FujiSkunk]

Sega's arcade port does add a lot more enemies and a scoring system, but the goal of each level is still to rescue hostages. Finishing a level requires rescuing a certain number of hostages, and you get penalized if you let too many hostages die.

What really makes the Sega version better in my opinion are those extra levels. In the original, once those 64 hostages are either dead or rescued, that's it. The end. In the arcade game, once you're finished in the desert, it's off to the ocean, then the forest.

I like both versions of the game, but I have to give kudos to Sega for pulling off the rare "upgrade" that actually improves on the original.

The new one looks interesting, but, it seems the improved 3D graphics make the fact you're limited to a 2D plane of action even more obvious, which kind of distracts from the action, in my opinion. Oh well, I might still give it a shot.

Edited by FujiSkunk, Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:04 AM.

[onlysublime]

It's not the same. If you played the old version like you played the Sega version, you would get killed. The jets alone would kill you. In the old version, you are required far more to pull back on your chopper and change elevations. The hostages are much more fragile in the old version than the Sega version. In the Sega version, you can practically land on top of a hostage without killing him.

Sure, on the surface, the gameplay looks the same. But that's like saying Pac Man is the same as Ms. Pac Man.

[Underball]

onlysublime, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:02 AM, said:

It's not the same. If you played the old version like you played the Sega version, you would get killed. The jets alone would kill you. In the old version, you are required far more to pull back on your chopper and change elevations. The hostages are much more fragile in the old version than the Sega version. In the Sega version, you can practically land on top of a hostage without killing him.

Sure, on the surface, the gameplay looks the same. But that's like saying Pac Man is the same as Ms. Pac Man.

these are both incorrect. and these aren't gameplay elements. they are difficulty settings. the basic gameplay mechanics are strategy are exactly the same.

[FujiSkunk]

onlysublime, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:02 AM, said:

It's not the same. If you played the old version like you played the Sega version, you would get killed. The jets alone would kill you.

It is true there is a sweet spot in the arcade game where you could fly and not get shot by the jets, but that's a minor difference at best. I've seen much bigger differences between ports of other games for different consoles.

Quote

The hostages are much more fragile in the old version than the Sega version. In the Sega version, you can practically land on top of a hostage without killing him.

I don't know about you, but I've squished plenty of hostages playing arcade Choplifter.

Quote

Sure, on the surface, the gameplay looks the same. But that's like saying Pac Man is the same as Ms. Pac Man.

Is that really the best example? I mean, in many ways Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man actually are alike. In fact, Ms. Pac-Man was originally a hack of Pac-Man, making them much more closely related than the Broderbund and Sega versions of Choplifter.

Edited by FujiSkunk, Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:51 AM.

[onlysublime]

FujiSkunk, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:50 AM, said:

onlysublime, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:02 AM, said:

It's not the same. If you played the old version like you played the Sega version, you would get killed. The jets alone would kill you.

It is true there is a sweet spot in the arcade game where you could fly and not get shot by the jets, but that's a minor difference at best. I've seen much bigger differences between ports of other games for different consoles.

Quote

The hostages are much more fragile in the old version than the Sega version. In the Sega version, you can practically land on top of a hostage without killing him.

I don't know about you, but I've squished plenty of hostages playing arcade Choplifter.

Quote

Sure, on the surface, the gameplay looks the same. But that's like saying Pac Man is the same as Ms. Pac Man.

Is that really the best example? I mean, in many ways Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man actually are alike. In fact, Ms. Pac-Man was originally a hack of Pac-Man, making them much more closely related than the Broderbund and Sega versions of Choplifter.

Sega didn't use any of the AI code. It's not a port. You can most definitely say the Sega Choplifter was inspired by the original Choplifter. But you can't say it's a port.

Pac Man and Ms. Pac Man is the perfect example because they're only similar on the surface. The ghost patterns are different. The mobile fruit in Ms Pac Man versus the stationary fruit in Pac Man are different. the levels are different. The way the ghosts handle the tunnel is different. If you have to use different strategy, then it's a different game. That's what differentiates Gears of War 1 from Gears of War 2 (the changes in the weapons like the shotgun). Or Halo 1 (uber powerful pistol, single wielding weapon) to Halo 2 (neutered pistol, dual wielding weapons, swordplay).

If you're going by, "it's practically the same," you might as well say Halo is the same as Killzone. Or Modern Warfare is the same as Battlefield. Or Duke Nukem Forever is the same as Duke Nukem 3D.

Edited by onlysublime, Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:04 PM.

[Austin]

onlysublime, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:02 PM, said:

Sega didn't use any of the AI code. It's not a port. You can most definitely say the Sega Choplifter was inspired by the original Choplifter. But you can't say it's a port.

Pac Man and Ms. Pac Man is the perfect example because they're only similar on the surface. The ghost patterns are different. The mobile fruit in Ms Pac Man versus the stationary fruit in Pac Man are different. the levels are different.

I think you are getting into this a little too deep. Very few get this technical with these games, and I'd be willing to be 98% or more of the people out there these days will not notice the differences you speak of.


BTW, SMS Choplifter FTW!

[Underball]

onlysublime, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:02 PM, said:

FujiSkunk, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:50 AM, said:

onlysublime, on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:02 AM, said:

It's not the same. If you played the old version like you played the Sega version, you would get killed. The jets alone would kill you.

It is true there is a sweet spot in the arcade game where you could fly and not get shot by the jets, but that's a minor difference at best. I've seen much bigger differences between ports of other games for different consoles.

Quote

The hostages are much more fragile in the old version than the Sega version. In the Sega version, you can practically land on top of a hostage without killing him.

I don't know about you, but I've squished plenty of hostages playing arcade Choplifter.

Quote

Sure, on the surface, the gameplay looks the same. But that's like saying Pac Man is the same as Ms. Pac Man.

Is that really the best example? I mean, in many ways Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man actually are alike. In fact, Ms. Pac-Man was originally a hack of Pac-Man, making them much more closely related than the Broderbund and Sega versions of Choplifter.

Sega didn't use any of the AI code. It's not a port. You can most definitely say the Sega Choplifter was inspired by the original Choplifter. But you can't say it's a port.

Pac Man and Ms. Pac Man is the perfect example because they're only similar on the surface. The ghost patterns are different. The mobile fruit in Ms Pac Man versus the stationary fruit in Pac Man are different. the levels are different. The way the ghosts handle the tunnel is different. If you have to use different strategy, then it's a different game. That's what differentiates Gears of War 1 from Gears of War 2 (the changes in the weapons like the shotgun). Or Halo 1 (uber powerful pistol, single wielding weapon) to Halo 2 (neutered pistol, dual wielding weapons, swordplay).

If you're going by, "it's practically the same," you might as well say Halo is the same as Killzone. Or Modern Warfare is the same as Battlefield. Or Duke Nukem Forever is the same as Duke Nukem 3D.

Something tells me you're really not going to like this new Choplifter HD then, since the Sega Arcade/SMS version is pretty much considered the definitive version of the game. This new one is clearly based on the Sega version going by the trailer, and not the original, boring, 4 color Broderbund Apple/Atari/Commodore version.

[BrianC]

Underball, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:50 AM, said:

The Sega Master System version is identical to the arcade version.

It's not identical. It's based on the arcade, but it is missing the fourth stage (city). The maximum load in the SMS is 16 POWs instead of 8 like the arcade. The stages end at 40 rescued on of the instead of the 20 of the arcade version.

[onlysublime]

Underball, on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:18 AM, said:

Something tells me you're really not going to like this new Choplifter HD then, since the Sega Arcade/SMS version is pretty much considered the definitive version of the game. This new one is clearly based on the Sega version going by the trailer, and not the original, boring, 4 color Broderbund Apple/Atari/Commodore version.

Just because you say it's the "definitive" version doesn't make it so.

Besides, Choplifter HD is a remake of Choplifter which I'm totally for. What I'm not for is saying that the Sega version is Choplifter when it's more of a remake than Choplifter.

And Dan Gorlin was a consultant for the new Choplifter HD. He's the guy behind the original Choplifter, not the Sega version.


Preview: Choplifter HD

"In fact, fans will be happy to hear that Dan Gorlin, the creator of the Choplifter franchise, is a design consultant on this game."

Edited by onlysublime, Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:46 PM.

[Underball]

onlysublime, on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:40 PM, said:

Underball, on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:18 AM, said:

Something tells me you're really not going to like this new Choplifter HD then, since the Sega Arcade/SMS version is pretty much considered the definitive version of the game. This new one is clearly based on the Sega version going by the trailer, and not the original, boring, 4 color Broderbund Apple/Atari/Commodore version.

Just because you say it's the "definitive" version doesn't make it so.

Besides, Choplifter HD is a remake of Choplifter which I'm totally for. What I'm not for is saying that the Sega version is Choplifter when it's more of a remake than Choplifter.

And Dan Gorlin was a consultant for the new Choplifter HD. He's the guy behind the original Choplifter, not the Sega version.


Preview: Choplifter HD

"In fact, fans will be happy to hear that Dan Gorlin, the creator of the Choplifter franchise, is a design consultant on this game."

Dan Gorlin is credited on both the SMS and Aracde versions of Choplifter, right on the title Screen of the game.

[onlysublime]

he's only there in name. he had nothing to do with the Sega versions.

Dan Gorlin

"How did the "Choplifter" coin-op come about?

That was a straight licensing deal with Sega. They did all the design and artwork themselves and were kind enough to put my name on it, but I had nothing to do with it really. I thought they did a great job of enhancing it, but would have liked to see an analog joystick instead of the usual joyswitch thing. Frankly, I don't like to play anything without linear control."

You're not going to win this argument if you're arguing that the Sega version is the definitive version. You can argue that it's better and a remake, and I would agree that it's a remake. But it's not the definitive version. That's like saying the Marky Mark version of Planet of the Apes is the definitive version (though I actually liked the Burton remake).

Edited by onlysublime, Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:28 PM.

[Austin]

onlysublime, on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:40 PM, said:

Just because you say it's the "definitive" version doesn't make it so.

Likewise back at you. With that, why don't you tell us the exact criteria required for a game to be considered "the definitive version"? Is there such a thing? How about a set of rules and guidelines ingrained in stone somewhere? Please, enlighten us. And when you are done, let this thread die already.

Edited by Austin, Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:31 PM.

[onlysublime]

Austin, on Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:29 PM, said:

onlysublime, on Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:40 PM, said:

Just because you say it's the "definitive" version doesn't make it so.

Likewise back at you. With that, why don't you tell us the exact criteria required for a game to be considered "the definitive version"? Is there such a thing? How about a set of rules and guidelines ingrained in stone somewhere? Please, enlighten us. And when you are done, let this thread die already.

Yes, but I never claimed a definitive version like he did.

All I ever said was I hope the new Choplifter HD has the gameplay of the original choplifter game rather than the Sega versions. go back to how I started the thread and how others have subverted it.

Edited by onlysublime, Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:36 PM.

[Rex Dart]

Cram it, ladies!

This looks pretty fun. I could see myself enjoying the hell out of it for a solid half-hour, then getting up to eat dinner & never playing it again.

[Atariboy]

onlysublime, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:22 PM, said:

The Sega version is only Choplifter in name. It got rid of the gameplay of the Apple/Atari/Commodore original by Broderbund. The Sega version is basically a shooter with simplified Choplifter game mechanics.

I thought this was familiar.

http://www.avsforum....d.php?t=1325046

Wonder if there are any other AA members over there besides us.

Edited by Atariboy, Mon Sep 5, 2011 9:38 PM.

[onlysublime]

Atariboy, on Mon Sep 5, 2011 9:38 PM, said:

onlysublime, on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:22 PM, said:

The Sega version is only Choplifter in name. It got rid of the gameplay of the Apple/Atari/Commodore original by Broderbund. The Sega version is basically a shooter with simplified Choplifter game mechanics.

I thought this was familiar.

http://www.avsforum....d.php?t=1325046

Wonder if there are any other AA members over there besides us.

Hey, what up?

I was always an Atarian at heart (2600, 1200XL, 1040ST, Jaguar, Lynx). Stopped going to Atariage a long while ago but then got back to the site because of Typhoon 2001.

[FalcoPhoenix808]

I might have to check this out. I really liked the original Choplifter, and I enjoyed the Sega Master System version too - really liked the ocean level with the ships.