17 replies to this topic

[SoulBlazer]

I don't normaly come in here and start saying what I really think about something. Just like in RL I'm pretty laid back and casual and relaxed with things. With all the crap going on with Atari these days, though, it came to mind.

First of all, I'm not saying Atari is doing the right thing and how they are going about it leaves a lot to be desired. However.....

Whenever I hear anyone say a publishing company is 'evil' and should be boycotted or driven out of business, I just roll my eyes. I've heard EA, UbiSoft, Atari, and other companies all have that label applied to them.

Game making isn't what it used to be. A modern game takes months if not years, dozens of people, and mass ammount of money to make. None of the major companies make games anymore. Instead, the games are made by smaller companies -- developers -- who then shop the game around and find someone willing to publish it.

Labeling a company like EA or UbiSoft as a 'bad' companies due to their policies or not liking them is one thing -- but by refusing to buy a game that they put out, you're hurting a whole bunch of innocent, hard working, people, who poured mass ammounts of time and money into a project when the game may be totally awsome.

I mean, is it really fair to take a game and say 'Yeah, if this was put out by Konami I'd buy it in a second, but it's from EA so I'm going to boycott it'? Really?

I'm a gamer, I have no loyality to any one company. I may like some companies more then the others and I may not agree with all the crap that they do, but I look at the game as just that -- a game. I don't think 'is this a company I want to put money into, or take money out of the pockets of the developers?' Instead I think 'is this game any good, would I like it?'

I may think EA is a stupidly run company that is bloated and does a lot of silly things that will backlash on them, but it doesn't stop me from buying the new Madden every year cause I'm a huge football fan.

I just don't understand all the hate around here. Am I the only one looking at the big picture, or thinking about the poor saps who just spent two years working on a game and was lucky to find anyone to publish it cause it's a niche game?

[Rex Dart]

SoulBlazer, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:23 PM, said:

Labeling a company like EA or UbiSoft as a 'bad' companies due to their policies or not liking them is one thing -- but by refusing to buy a game that they put out, you're hurting a whole bunch of innocent, hard working, people, who poured mass ammounts of time and money into a project when the game may be totally awsome.

So... you're saying I should be the one to take the hit, rather than a publisher with lousy practices (EA's new spyware for example), just for the sake of the developers?

SoulBlazer, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:23 PM, said:

I mean, is it really fair to take a game and say 'Yeah, if this was put out by Konami I'd buy it in a second, but it's from EA so I'm going to boycott it'? Really?

Yes. The concept of fairness is a myth.

SoulBlazer, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:23 PM, said:

I'm a gamer, I have no loyality to any one company. I may like some companies more then the others and I may not agree with all the crap that they do, but I look at the game as just that -- a game. I don't think 'is this a company I want to put money into, or take money out of the pockets of the developers?' Instead I think 'is this game any good, would I like it?'

If you can believe that you can seperate software from publishers, good for you. I realize that they're tied together, however. I have a limited supply of money, care a little about the direction that games are heading, and won't support practices that I don't wish to see continue.

[Hatta]

SoulBlazer, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:23 PM, said:

Labeling a company like EA or UbiSoft as a 'bad' companies due to their policies or not liking them is one thing -- but by refusing to buy a game that they put out, you're hurting a whole bunch of innocent, hard working, people, who poured mass ammounts of time and money into a project when the game may be totally awsome.

There's always some well meaning hard working person at a company that isn't evil who deserves your money just as much. E.g. If you're pissed about Diablo 3's always online requirement, you can buy Torchlight 2 instead. The people who made torchlight are just as deserving of your money as the people who made D3.

And by rewarding companies who behave well, you encourage good behavior in the future. This helps the rank and file employees of naughty companies, by creating jobs in better companies for them to take.

[AtariLeaf]

Depends on the policies of the company but there seems to be a general sense that consumer rights are being stripped away and gamers are on the losing end. Yes, take it as a case by case basis but since everyone is jumping on the DRM bandwagon and looking for more ways to force gamers to spend more money while giving them less options its becoming harder to choose a company that respects its customer base.

[Mord]

SoulBlazer, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:23 PM, said:

Labeling a company like EA or UbiSoft as a 'bad' companies due to their policies or not liking them is one thing -- but by refusing to buy a game that they put out, you're hurting a whole bunch of innocent, hard working, people, who poured mass ammounts of time and money into a project when the game may be totally awsome.

I mean, is it really fair to take a game and say 'Yeah, if this was put out by Konami I'd buy it in a second, but it's from EA so I'm going to boycott it'? Really?

Ok stop. Stop right there. I'm not being manhandled and treated like trash just because I want to keep some development group in business. That developer wants to make good games? They should find a good publisher to go with it. If they can't, that's not my problem. I'm just going to find something else to do with my time AND my money. (And I'm not going to be downloading it from some torrent site in "protest" either. When I boycott, I BOYCOTT.)

If enough people DID boycott publishers for their horrible practices then those practices would go away fairly quickly - the publishers don't want to go bankrupt. It's the fact that we have an extremely large following of gamers that have that "oh those poor developers" mentality and buy products from people treating them like shit that lets this thing get out of hand in the first place.

It's the same thing with people accepting things like Gamestop's store policies and gutting of games and selling used for 5 dollars cheaper than new. If people wouldn't buy into it, it simply wouldn't happen for much longer.

[Rex Dart]

Mord, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:50 PM, said:

It's the same thing with people accepting things like Gamestop's store policies and gutting of games and selling used for 5 dollars cheaper than new. If people wouldn't buy into it, it simply wouldn't happen for much longer.

Remember when they would just add $5 to the price of new games & sell used copies for what any other retailer sold new copies for? People stopped falling for that & now they've backed off to the point that you described.

[HuckleCat]

SoulBlazer, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:23 PM, said:

Whenever I hear anyone say a publishing company is 'evil' and should be boycotted or driven out of business, I just roll my eyes. I've heard EA, UbiSoft, Atari, and other companies all have that label applied to them.

Labeling a company like EA or UbiSoft as a 'bad' companies due to their policies or not liking them is one thing -- but by refusing to buy a game that they put out, you're hurting a whole bunch of innocent, hard working, people

Personally, I have never boycotted a game because of who published it, however, I do recognize game publishers, at least a few of them, as evil.

Take EA for example. The amount of fucking over others done by them is exceeded by nobody else in the industry. It wasn't irate customers that dissolved Origin Systems or Bullfrog. The student players that make up the NCAA did not decide to not get paid. These were/are all innocent, hard working people that got hurt because of nothing but greed on the part of EA. BioWare is praying to god that The Old Republic does better than World of Warcraft, otherwise several of their employees are going to have the same kind of christmas that half of Origin Systems employees did after Ultima IX. Afterwards, if the revenue EA expected from TOR isn't made up by stellar instant sales of Mass Effect 3, bye-bye BioWare. All because of greed.

You really can't hurt devs if the publishers beat you to it.

[HammR25]

I buy games I want at the price I want with the features I want. I really couldn't care less if that developer needs to feed his/her family just like I couldn't care less if some person at GM will lose his or her job because I refuse to buy their cars or a farmer goes out of business because I hate brussel sprouts. Guess what, they really couldn't care less if I lose mine either.

[cimerians]

Soulblazer your exactly the type of gamer\customer EA and Activision love to have.

It's up to people like us to voice these things especially nowadays with the gaming community out there. I'm not rich, nor do I want to be chained to the internet to play a game or put up with DRM that installs on my personal PC without me allowing it.

Its up to you, do as you will but you cant stop people from talking about it and in their opinion saying that its wrong. After all its not just a handful of people. Its thousands. Sure you can say its stupid to bitch. Your opinion. Fine. Not mine at all, not in the least.

If something is totally against what I think is good for the industry or if I feel I'm being screwed over. Hell no I'm not buying it. Sadly I've been screwed over AFTER the fact many times and without warning or convoluted EULA's.

The devs understand that trust me. They know it. Sadly sometimes the the publisher still won't do anything about it and simply say "We are sorry about that. We wont fix it or give you a refund. Thank you for buying our game."

[Mendon]

I understand what you are saying, Soulblazer... I just can't agree with your position.

As an example, if I don't like GameStop's policies, I won't shop there. Is my (and possibly others) boycotting the store because of corporate decisions hurting the employee's working there who are probably barely making minimum wage? More than likely.

If I get a bad meal/service at a restaurant and management does nothing to appease me, I won't eat there again. Is my boycotting the restaurant because of management decisions hurting the dishwasher in the kitchen. More than likely.

Sorry, but if I feel that a company has an anti-consumer policy, whether its an Online Pass in gaming or paying to park my car at a hotel while staying with them, I won't be a customer.

At some point, the customer has to take a stand and say to corporate or management that as long as your anti-consumer polices exist, I won't be spending my money on your products/services. Someone innocent of your complaint will always be affected,... but whats the alternative?


Mendon

[Reaperman]

I tend to hold more grudges and for longer than most, but it's realistically the most effective way I have of stopping behaviors I don't like. I won't support anything that I want to fail, and make no mistake, I want certain companies to fail in everything that they do or touch.

Is there a better way?

Now I'm not stupid enough to believe that one person's money can make much of a difference to organizations this large, but I sleep a little better knowing that my money goes only to places I believe in, and can get behind. I also have no moral difficulty purchasing used titles to avoid directly rewarding miserable publishers/dev houses. There's no reason why I should punish myself by missing out on a good game, and there's also no reason why I should reward bad publishers for a few gems until they fix me as a consumer. I have to keep this sustainable or it just won't work (and it supports used retailers).

Currently I purchase Sony(includes all ps3/psp titles), Sega, Atari, and Epic Megagames programs used.

I've been hearing that Atari may be releasing new flashback systems, and that is a shame, since they made great xmas gifts in the past. Unless they have their come-to-Jesus moment and attempt to undo (or even just stop) what they've done recently, I cannot--and WILL NOT--support them. If there are ways to specifically support the scene without paying Atari, I'm all for that.

Now what does it take to get on my good side? In all of the above cases a simple (yet specific) apology and some policy changes. I'm not unreasonable.

Edited by Reaperman, Fri Sep 2, 2011 2:19 PM.

[Emehr]

If we can get the "evil" companies to go out of business, the employees with talent will either (a) find new work with a less-evil company or (b) create a new company.

We can't bend over for any corporation just because it may put a few people out of work. It sets a bad precedent and encourages them to further drive the screws in. New opportunities will rise from their ashes.

[iswitt]

My policy has always been to vote with my wallet. Every time any good passes over the scanner of any store, you are essentially voting for that product. The more transactions a product gets (votes), the more likely the maker is to stay in business. If I do not like your product or if I take issue with your policies and business practices, you will not get my vote - plain and simple.

Also, I understand the process of making a game and looking for a publisher. It works the same with almost every other medium. If my favorite author were to someday switch publishing houses to HarperCollins, I would stop buying their books. Not because I don't think the book would be good, but because it is my way of voting out crappy businesses. If the author goes under because of his choice, then maybe he should have made better decisions with his art.

[Video]

You know what? If you work for the wrong company for the wrong reasons and poor practices. I could honestly give a damn less if my not supporting said company hurts you. Obviously, someone working for a bad company could work for someone else. It's not like there's a bunch of programmers on street corners with "will work for food" signs or anything.

Yes, sometimes only parts of a company are bad, but some situations (like EA) it's best notto even bother buying their product and risk getting fucked over afterwards.

Maybe that makes me some sort of selfish bastard, but that's cool. I've been worse things than that, and I've got plenty of other companies taht I can enjoy instead anyways. Hopefully those people working for the wrong companies can get their heads out of their asses and move o to bigger and better things.

[Austin]

Mord, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:50 PM, said:

It's the fact that we have an extremely large following of gamers that have that "oh those poor developers" mentality and buy products from people treating them like shit that lets this thing get out of hand in the first place.

I think it's due to something else: a huge following of gamers that don't give a shit and eat up whatever they are given. Sounds like a lot of other aspects of society if you ask me.

[Animan]

Developers just need to stop being shy and try new ideas for once.

[Video]

Animan, on Sun Sep 4, 2011 7:04 PM, said:

Developers just need to stop being shy and try new ideas for once.

Exactly. It's not like you have to dedicate 180 employees, years, and millions of dollars to try something new. Any company that big should have a half dozen guys working on "whatever the hell" projects. (or maybe even several half dozen person groups) You never know what will take off.

Edited by Video, Mon Sep 5, 2011 2:42 PM.

[Mord]

Austin, on Sun Sep 4, 2011 6:23 PM, said:

Mord, on Fri Sep 2, 2011 12:50 PM, said:

It's the fact that we have an extremely large following of gamers that have that "oh those poor developers" mentality and buy products from people treating them like shit that lets this thing get out of hand in the first place.

I think it's due to something else: a huge following of gamers that don't give a shit and eat up whatever they are given. Sounds like a lot of other aspects of society if you ask me.

There is that. And the audience I'm referring to are a subset of those - it's still apparently a large slice tho given how often I'll hear the "oh those poor developers" excuse come up in any argument pertaining to anti-consumer behaviours.