79 replies to this topic

[Yurkie]

I have wished that Atairsoft's unreleased reversion of Joust had sound for many years, even back before I joined AtariAge and was just a lurker.

The point of this thread is to see if it can become a reality.

First question is " Is there a homebrew programmer willing to do Joust with sound, whether you want to start from scratch or add sound to the Atarisoft version?"

Second question or perhaps the second part of the first question. "How much money do you need to do it?"

How many people want this game enough to put a nice chunk of money into it?

How do we bring the whole thing together?

My thought is I want to be able to play the game. I really don't care about a box and cart. I can throw the rom on the SD and play it.

Say we had 20 people put up $100 each that's $2000. Is $2000 enough to get the game made? or is there even 20 people willing to put up a $100? How you keep the rom only in the hands of the 20 people and not from going public?

Or

What about 20 people paying $110 each ($2000 to programmer $200 for the carts) and getting a cart only release of the final rom, perhaps autographed by the programmer? Then each of the 20 has a chance to probably double or triple their $110 investment and regardless of whether the rom is posted all over the net they are covered.

The main reason for this thread is that with all the existing titles and all that are coming out soon and the hardware limitations what would I really like to have for the ColecoVision.

Please post any all thoughts/comments about this.

Edited by Yurkie, Tue Sep 6, 2011 1:19 PM.

[ColecoDan]

I of course would support anything related to getting games out to the public.

I am sure a lot of people would want a physical cart if they are going to pay anything over $20.

I would think if you are not going to have a cart you would need 150 at $20 to give you $3000. Just because I think $2000 is kinda low if they are going to spend a lot of time programming a game from scratch and I think they get more than that now to create games (?).
Also I guess the money part would probably change depending on if they were going to create from scratch or add sound to the existing game. Even though I am sure it is a pain to add sound and come up with the sound it would have to be easier than coming up with the whole game and sound from scratch, so you could get away with paying less for just sound upgrade probably.

The biggest problem I think you have is that Pixelboy originally had it as one of his projects and was of course offering money for someone to do the exact same thing you are suggesting and he eventually took it off his list probably due to the amount games he already was working on. However, I gotta believe it would still be in his list of games if someone said they were interested in coding it so the prospect of finding someone to do it could be small.

If I was going to pay $100 or more I would definately want a cart and would actually kinda like a box and ins booklet if I am going to shell out big bucks.

[Tempest]

I think the source code for the sounds exists somewhere. I thought it had all been scanned in from Robert Vieira's personal archives. What happened to that stuff anyway?

Tempest

[ColecoDan]

Tempest, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 2:10 PM, said:

I think the source code for the sounds exists somewhere. I thought it had all been scanned in from Robert Vieira's personal archives. What happened to that stuff anyway?

Tempest

That was a whole nother topic of it not being very easy to read and the guy refusing to just send it to people anyway and then never answering anyone anymore. You can basically put that one down as never going to happen.

[youki]

Quote

"How much money do you need to do it?"

In my case, doing a game "on order" , it is like if i work it is no more hobbies. So, pricing will be lot of higher than 2000$... about 10 times i would say. Of course the customer will have source code and the rights on the game .

I think you can find cheaper programmer!

[Yurkie]

I don't even want to go down that road about sound being out there somewhere. I even started a new topic about that back when I first joined AtariAge.

Let me ask a simple direct question.

Would any programmer be willing to program Joust with sound for $2000? This is regardless if you add it to the Atarisoft rom or start over from scratch.

[newcoleco]

Yurkie, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 2:53 PM, said:

I don't even want to go down that road about sound being out there somewhere. I even started a new topic about that back when I first joined AtariAge.

Let me ask a simple direct question.

Would any programmer be willing to program Joust with sound for $2000? This is regardless if you add it to the Atarisoft rom or start over from scratch.

For that much money, I think I'll give it a try... sorry Lock'n Chase project, I'll finish your sounds later.

[LynxVGL]

Would a Community funding site like Kickstarter be a good place to start seeding a project like this?

[newcoleco]

Update : I've compared Dig Dug , Joust and Pac-Man. These 3 AtariSoft ColecoVision games have the exact same sound routines. I'm now checking how it works, how sounds are triggered. The sound format seems very easy, it's pretty much data sent directly to the sound chip, with a flag exception when sending the high part of the frequency. Do you want me to continue investigating or...

Edited by newcoleco, Tue Sep 6, 2011 5:59 PM.

[Yurkie]

I would love for you too keep looking.

Sounds like all we need now is for investors to step forward. I'll go $100 personally.

Would half now and half later be acceptable to you Daniel?

There might be a publisher that would want to CIB this game.

Anyone want to join me in paying Newcoleco to do this?

[NIAD]

There seems to be a few "thorns in the side" of long-time ColecoVision fans and collectors...

The original Expansion Module #3... the Super Game Module. Someone has to have one, right?
The "Masters of the Universe - The Power of He-Man" game that was completed by Mattel but can't be released either in cartridge or rom format due to the possible resurrection of the He-Man franchise.
When is someone going to part with a ColecoVision KIOSK again? There's gotta be a few more out there besides the one DoubleDown owns!
When will another CIB Boulder Dash that is working go up for auction again?
Will the sound code for Joust ever be provided by the person in possession of it and can it be implemented into the existing rom file by one of the talented CV Homebrewers.

Well, the actual Atari sound code seems to be out of the realm of possibilities, but now thanks to Yurkie raising the question (repeatedly ) and Daniel's willingness to investigate the possibility further... one of those proverbial thorns seems closer than ever to being removed.

So I am willing to lend my support to this endeavor but would prefer to have a cartridge, manual and box produced in the style of AtariSoft's released games and maybe a special run of carts can be produced that reuse the Atari cart shell (Centipede and Defender are pretty common) for those that make an investment in this project. Then further carts could be produced using regular cart shells.

[newcoleco]

I can tell you that, based on my investigation, there are sound data in Joust but it's only to MUTE the different channels. There is no "start_sound" routine which can be added from DigDug or PacMan, and trigger properly each sound.

I'll accept all donation... but as for the money for this job, when I'll be able to make 2 or 3 sounds playing in the game, I will tell you and consider getting your money. For now, I'm more playing, messing around, with these Atarisoft CV games... wich is quite fun actually!

Edited by newcoleco, Tue Sep 6, 2011 6:18 PM.

[Yurkie]

newcoleco, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 6:10 PM, said:

I can tell you that, based on my investigation, there are sound data in Joust but it's only to MUTE the different channels. There is no "start_sound" routine which can be added from DigDug or PacMan, and trigger properly each sound.

I'll accept all donation... but as for the money for this job, when I'll be able to make 2 or 3 sounds playing in the game, I will tell you and consider getting your money. For now, I'm more playing, messing around, with these Atarisoft CV games... wich is quite fun actually!

Wow. Sounds like you are making incredible progress.

[jblenkle]

Not to be a downer...but once again, the common shallow-pocketed gamer (like me), is being priced out of this game before it's even produced. I love Joust, but I could never come up with that kind of money for it.

Yurkie, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 5:31 PM, said:

I would love for you too keep looking.

Sounds like all we need now is for investors to step forward. I'll go $100 personally.

Would half now and half later be acceptable to you Daniel?

There might be a publisher that would want to CIB this game.

Anyone want to join me in paying Newcoleco to do this?

[Yurkie]

I am a little frustrated that there is such little support for this. Does everything have to be pre-order for a CIB to get attention!

[retroillucid]

Yurkie, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:26 PM, said:

I am a little frustrated that there is such little support for this.

This thread is new, give it a couple of days/week and I'm sure it'll get some attention

Yurkie, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:26 PM, said:

Does everything have to be pre-order for a CIB to get attention!

I hope not! Release He-Man Master of Universe as cart only and you bet I'll buy it (ok I'll make me a label and box )


Seriously, I'm up to contribute!

Edited by retroillucid, Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:36 PM.

[Yurkie]

Thanks Retroillucid! I figured I could count on you buddy.

[retroillucid]

Yurkie, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:40 PM, said:

Thanks Retroillucid! I figured I could count on you buddy.

I think paying around the same as the price as an homebrew game would sounds good to everyone
Let's say $50 per people who want it

$2000 for simply adding sounds/music sound like scam to me
It's not like starting from scratch, in that case I would understand

20 peoples at $50 each sounds good to me, ... $1000 for adding sfx/music is well paid
What do you think Yurkie?

Anyway, it's all up to you buddy

[retroillucid]

Yurkie

I would like to add this:

Thanks for you willing to get that project done!
That's what I'm calling, a Brotherhood move!

That's really a good idea to get that Joust game complete, it's a great game, AtariSoft did an awesome job in making it, the only tthing missing to be an awesome game, is simply the sfx and music

+1 to your great move buddy! really well deserved!

[Pixelboy]

retroillucid, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:48 PM, said:

$2000 for simply adding sounds/music sound like scam to me
It's not like starting from scratch, in that case I would understand

Speak for yourself, dude! I agree it's expensive for a ROM hack, but there aren't a lot of volunteers stepping forward and beggers aren't choosers. So if 2000 bucks is what it takes to have the full Joust experience on the CV, then I'll gladly pay it. And I'll publish the game as well, with box and manual, under my Team Pixelboy label. Besides, perhaps Daniel will be able to invest some of that money into Adamcon 24 next year.

So no need for a pledge drive, people, Daniel will get paid in full by yours truly once he delivers the final ROM to me, and from there I'll take care of the rest.

[retroillucid]

Pixelboy, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 8:03 PM, said:

retroillucid, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:48 PM, said:

$2000 for simply adding sounds/music sound like scam to me
It's not like starting from scratch, in that case I would understand

Speak for yourself, dude! I agree it's expensive for a ROM hack, but there aren't a lot of volunteers stepping forward and beggers aren't choosers. So if 2000 bucks is what it takes to have the full Joust experience on the CV, then I'll gladly pay it. And I'll publish the game as well, with box and manual, under my Team Pixelboy label. Besides, perhaps Daniel will be able to invest some of that money into Adamcon 24 next year.

So no need for a pledge drive, people, Daniel will get paid in full by yours truly once he delivers the final ROM to me, and from there I'll take care of the rest.

Cool!
You know I'll be one of the first in line to buy a copy!

[Yurkie]

Pixelboy, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 8:03 PM, said:

retroillucid, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:48 PM, said:

$2000 for simply adding sounds/music sound like scam to me
It's not like starting from scratch, in that case I would understand

Speak for yourself, dude! I agree it's expensive for a ROM hack, but there aren't a lot of volunteers stepping forward and beggers aren't choosers. So if 2000 bucks is what it takes to have the full Joust experience on the CV, then I'll gladly pay it. And I'll publish the game as well, with box and manual, under my Team Pixelboy label. Besides, perhaps Daniel will be able to invest some of that money into Adamcon 24 next year.

So no need for a pledge drive, people, Daniel will get paid in full by yours truly once he delivers the final ROM to me, and from there I'll take care of the rest.

If Daniel is cool with you paying him the 2K upon completion I am ok with that as a solution. I was just trying to work out a solution to get a game I love.

Send me your Paypal address newcoleco and I will send you a $20 USD gift, just to show my appreciation for stepping up.

[Pixelboy]

I think there's one small problem though: If I remember correctly, the CV Joust prototype doesn't have a title screen. I'm hoping there's enough room in the cart for both the sounds and a title screen... I can supply the graphics, of course.

[Yurkie]

Pixelboy, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 8:27 PM, said:

I think there's one small problem though: If I remember correctly, the CV Joust prototype doesn't have a title screen. I'm hoping there's enough room in the cart for both the sounds and a title screen... I can supply the graphics, of course.

The proto is only 24k. 8k is enough for music and title right?

[Ikrananka]

Yurkie, on Tue Sep 6, 2011 7:26 PM, said:

I am a little frustrated that there is such little support for this. Does everything have to be pre-order for a CIB to get attention!

retroillucid is right about giving it a few days. I was travelling today and have only now gotten a chance to respond to this. I would very gladly have contributed but now see that is unnecessary thanks to pixelboy.

Wow - at long last there is hope that we might get a full release of Joust CIB - fantastic and of course many thanks to Yurkie for pushing this forward and for Daniel for volunteering to at least try and see if it can be done or not. Wonderful news.

Not wishing to put a damper on things but what about Atari? When AA published Pac-Man, Dig Dug and Joust in repro cart only form Albert was instructed by Atari to cease selling them. Could this be an issue again with a Joust release with sounds?

Edited by Ikrananka, Tue Sep 6, 2011 10:54 PM.